How many games suspension does "The Mother of all Elbows" get in today's NHL?

[jj cale]

Touché.

I think each generation always thinks the successive one is softer than they were.

Right now, the skill level across the board is as good as it’s ever been. Modern equipment, training, diet, rule changes, etc. have led us to the “Skill Era” we’re currently in.

It's almost too skilled across the board now, everything is so even that you don't get the level of excitement generated by the game in decades past because of the relative separation between the stars and non stars. It is of course not the only reason for the lesser entertainment product but it is one of the reasons.

 

[Pengwins]

This one is just as bad IMO

that's just extreme leadership

 

[Machinehead]

Typical Kreider

 

[snipes]

It's almost too skilled across the board now, everything is so even that you don't get the level of excitement generated by the game in decades past because of the relative separation between the stars and non stars. It is of course not the only reason for the lesser entertainment product but it is one of the reasons.

The skill and depth in the bottom 6 are just simply uncomparable to even 10 years ago.

I think equipment changes really are a driving force and rule changes especially. Players don’t need to enforce the rules themselves player safety handles it much better now

But yeah, you’re right, the relative skill difference between the average 1st liner and a young up and coming player is substantially less than that it was in the 90s era.

I do really miss the nastiness in hockey and fisticuffs right off the bat in a game to set the tone but the skill and plays you see on a nightly basis in the NHL is a nice trade off.

Players now are just so supremely skilled.

 

[jj cale]

The skill and depth in the bottom 6 are just simply uncomparable to even 10 years ago.

I think equipment changes really are a driving force and rule changes especially. Players don’t need to enforce the rules themselves player safety handles it much better now

But yeah, you’re right, the relative skill difference between the average 1st liner and a young up and coming player is substantially less than that it was in the 90s era.

I do really miss the nastiness in hockey and fisticuffs right off the bat in a game to set the tone but the skill and plays you see on a nightly basis in the NHL is a nice trade off.

Players now are just so supremely skilled.

Agreed.

And I go way back, not just the 90's era, I am talking the 70's and 80's era.

The game has changed so much, in skill terms for the better, in entertainment terms for the worse, at least in the N.H.L game it has. I may get blow back from a lot for this viewpoint from younger posters but I have watched all those eras and nothing they say is gonna change my mind. The drama and excitement just doesn't meet past eras, it's still good.................................but not past eras good.

 

[snipes]

Agreed.

And I go way back, not just the 90's era, I am talking the 70's and 80's era.

The game has changed so much, in skill terms for the better, in entertainment terms for the worse, at least in the N.H.L game it has. I may get blow back from a lot for this viewpoint from younger posters but I have watched all those eras and nothing they say is gonna change my mind. The drama and excitement just doesn't meet past eras, it's still good.................................but not past eras good.

There’s something about the level of physical violence that added an extra layer of excitement when you’re in the stadium live.

As I always say, hockey is better with hate.

Obviously we know now the horrifying effects of that type of hockey with respect to brain trauma.

Even your super skilled Habs teams in the 70s had guys that were nasty.

 

[DFC]

Touché.

I think each generation always thinks the successive one is softer than they were.

Right now, the skill level across the board is as good as it’s ever been. Modern equipment, training, diet, rule changes, etc. have led us to the “Skill Era” we’re currently in.

Yeah, but when Mike Milbury's beating a guy in the stands with his shoe... I don't know. I don't think the 90s has anything to compete with that. But then there was that guy in the 50s (?) who tried to kill a guy with his skate.

I think today's athlete is so advanced that those old styles would result in multiple deaths, which is why we have to get it out of the game. But the game has gotten progressively less violent, it seems. The 90s was probably the last true "violent" era of hockey, which is why we think of it when we think of the difference in the game, but just watching NHL classics (or whatever it was that NHL.tv had a few years back, where you could watch thousands of old games), you could see the 80s were insane and dirty, and the 70s pretty much had an entire metagame of intimidation going on under the surface.

Either way, as fun as it is to rewatch those times and remember them, depending on what generation you grew up on, I do think it was a necessity to soften up the game. It's played at too high a speed now, with even the larger players able to move at high speeds (for the most part), to go back. I don't know. I know the change started before Bertuzzi-Moore, but I think Bertuzzi-Moore is the moment we can point to where we realized multiple things had to change. It all snowballed pretty quickly after that, from removing muggings (which weren't uncommon in the 80s and 90s, I don't think) to removing hits to the head altogether (probably the Marc Savard hit that changed thinking on that?).

 

[DFC]

It's almost too skilled across the board now, everything is so even that you don't get the level of excitement generated by the game in decades past because of the relative separation between the stars and non stars. It is of course not the only reason for the lesser entertainment product but it is one of the reasons.

I guess you could point to multiple things. I always go back to Bertuzzi-Moore, but when they took the red line out, the game sped up so much that suddenly routine hits became dangerous. I mean, they were never "safe," (just ask Paul Kariya, Eric Lindros), but at the game's new speed, it was hard to be like "What a great hit!" when you weren't sure the guy was going to survive.

I saw Bertuzzi-Moore by accident. Wasn't even watching hockey that night. Just flipping through channels, paused briefly to check the score in the Avs/Canucks game, and the mugging happened like 15 seconds later. I thought I accidentally saw a guy die on the ice. I think that changed a lot of the post-whistle roughness that happened in the game. You never really saw a straight up mugging after that without severe consequences (depending on how you define Marchand/Eller, I guess). But youtube is full of that kind of thing, with games from the 70s - the 90s, that just didn't happen to go so horrifically bad.

 

[68Blues]

I thought this thread was Domi on Niedermayer. Sort of the opposite of the Bure-Churla play in terms of the skill and the goon.

Unreal that he just annihilates him a mile away from the puck and the ref does nothing.

No, that was pretty common back then.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

I thought this thread was Domi on Niedermayer. Sort of the opposite of the Bure-Churla play in terms of the skill and the goon.

Unreal that he just annihilates him a mile away from the puck and the ref does nothing.

If I recall correctly, the ref just missed it (probably because it was so far away from the play). He was vilified for that cheap shot though and received a lengthy suspension for it. Domi also called it the dumbest thing he'd ever done in his career.

 

[DFC]

If I recall correctly, the ref just missed it (probably because it was so far away from the play). He was vilified for that cheap shot though and received a lengthy suspension for it. Domi also called it the dumbest thing he'd ever done in his career.

I'm sure there were a few candidates for that prestigious award.

 

[Woodrow]

Messier had so many elbows through his career that they ran out of names. He has both the Godmother and Fairy Godmother of all elbows.

Nattress looked woozy and concussed to hell. Probably was back out there the next shift.

 

[iamjs]

10 games would be a starting point

 

[DFC]

Nattress looked woozy and concussed to hell. Probably was back out there the next shift.

Pretty sure he addressed this hit on Off The Record once. I wish I could remember what he said.

Messier was one of the dirtiest players I ever saw. If he weren't so skilled, I think we'd remember him as much more a Claude Lemieux type, which is still a level above the Matt Cookes and Ulf Samuelssons of the game. "Anything to win" dirty is still a bit more respected than "just downright malicious" dirty, rightly or wrongly. I haaaaaaated Lemieux as a kid, but somehow I've developed a strange respect for him now. I don't know that anybody ever hated Messier the way he might have been hated in today's game. We kind of laugh about his antics now.

 

[kingsholygrail]

According to the wheel of player safety, max fine for first time offense.

 

[ItMe]

For those lucky enough to have seen Pavel Bure play, you know he was one of the best snipers the game has ever seen. But, he wasn't a soft skilled player. He would throw checks, etc, and against Dallas threw "The Mother of all Elbows" against Stars enforcer Shane Churla:



How many games suspension does Bure get in todays NHL? True story: he only got fined $500 for this hit!

Does player play for Philadelphia?

If yes, severe suspension + weird $3,576.42 fine + possible prison time and community service.

If no, small suspension + weird #3,576.42 fine.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

I'm sure there were a few candidates for that prestigious award.

Definitely. The fact that he chose that particular one is an indicator of how terrible it was.

 

[jj cale]

There’s something about the level of physical violence that added an extra layer of excitement when you’re in the stadium live.

As I always say, hockey is better the hate.

Obviously we know now the horrifying effects of that type of hockey with respect to brain trauma.

Even your super skilled Habs teams in the 70s had guys that were nasty.

It came through loud and clear on the t.v screen too!!

And yeah my Habs teams of the 70's were not afraid to get down and dirty if that is what the other team wanted. I still remember like yesterday the day Robinson said enough of this shit and went after the Hammer............................they never f***ed with us like that again after that.

I miss those days greatly, hockey at it's best, from the legends who called the game on down to everything else about it in those times.

It's gone and will never come back.

 

[DFC]

Definitely. The fact that he chose that particular one is an indicator of how terrible it was.

I know it's Ulf Samuelsson, so nobody feels overly sympathetic or anything, buuuuut...



Imagine the suspension on THAT today. Season? Gotta be 20, minimum, and that's for a player without a history. I mean... I guess it's not ALL that different from what Baby Tie did to Aaron Ekblad, but Max isn't quite Tie in the violence department.

Don't get me wrong. Always liked Domi, still like Domi, etc etc. He had a definitely place in that era and he's respected for a reason. But he could definitely cross the line sometimes.

 

[jj cale]

I know it's Ulf Samuelsson, so nobody feels overly sympathetic or anything, buuuuut...



Imagine the suspension on THAT today. Season? Gotta be 20, minimum, and that's for a player without a history. I mean... I guess it's not ALL that different from what Baby Tie did to Aaron Ekblad, but Max isn't quite Tie in the violence department.

Don't get me wrong. Always liked Domi, still like Domi, etc etc. He had a definitely place in that era and he's respected for a reason. But he could definitely cross the line sometimes.

Very much a line crosser at times.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I was expecting this thread to be about this hit

Honestly I assumed this thread was about be Chelios on Propp.



Bure's hit was nasty and goes to show you that when the refs let the other team cheapshot a player all game without calling a penalty, sometimes that player snaps.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Messier had so many elbows through his career that they ran out of names. He has both the Godmother and Fairy Godmother of all elbows.

You could probably put together an hourlong highlight reel of Messier's elbows throughout his career. The guy made Matt Cooke look like an amateur.

 

[DFC]

Honestly I assumed this thread was about be Chelios on Propp.



Bure's hit was nasty and goes to show you that when the refs let the other team cheapshot a player all game without calling a penalty, sometimes that player snaps.

Ugh. I've never seen that one.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I thought this thread was Domi on Niedermayer. Sort of the opposite of the Bure-Churla play in terms of the skill and the goon.

Unreal that he just annihilates him a mile away from the puck and the ref does nothing.

I was thinking about Domi too.

If all three were today (Bure/Messier/Domi) it probably goes as follows:

1. Bure gets 7 games because star player on goon

2. Messier gets 20 games because star player with history on star player

3. Domi gets 41 games to a full season ban because goon with history on star player

Unfortunate this is how it usually works for the NHL.

 

[Carnal]

Clear dive. Bure a double minor for elbowing, Churla 2 minutes for unsportsmanlike conduct...