How are the Oilers this bad with mcdavid?

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I actually have to thank the Oilers for this dismal year. Never have I gotten so much gaming done. Even during the decade of darkness. My backlog is getting smaller and smaller.

 

[chizzler]

Cheap? lol he's not Melnyk.

He's ponied up cash big time for Mcdavid and Draisaitls extensions, Russel, LUCIC, Talbot, etc.

Cheap? What are you talking about?

It's terrible management/GM decisions that have done them in.

That was Chiarellis problem in Boston. He gave out rediculous contracts. IMO, he didn’t need to give out those contracts last year. He over paid for both.
They’re coach isn’t doing them any favors. Chara and Bergeron put the clamps on McD last night. McLellan not putting him in the best position to succeed.

 

[HarryLime]

That would be utterly ridiculous if that happened. They already had 4 1st overall picks in a span of 6 years, enough is enough. That's why the lottery itself needs to be done with, in my opinion.

I actually think the current system is fine. Teams near the bottom of the standings don't have as high a chance to win it (see last season). I am not against a team winning the lottery (leafs fan) but there should be a restriction on the amount of 1st overalls you should be able to pick over a span of years IMO.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

Even if Edmonton had picked Barzal, where would he play? on the 4th line? The thing with Barzal is he's a center thru and through...loves carrying the puck and passing it. I don't think he'd have developed like he has playing in Edmonton.

you could say this about any decent player in the league.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And what I'm saying is you have to make good on the picks you do have. You need at least one or the other right? So far Edmonton has been just OK in round 1 and terrible everywhere else.

Some of it is being lucky enough to have high picks at the right time.

2010: Hall was an excellent pick, but Chiarelli traded him.
2011: A weak top of draft to get the 1st OA. RNH was the right pick at the time, but there wasn't a McDavid/Matthews type. Klefbom also a good pick given the weakness of that draft.
2012: An even weaker top of the draft to get the 1st OA. Yak? Murray? Galchenyuk? Ugh.
2013: Nurse wasn't a great pick, but he's coming around. Risto, Nichushkin, Horvat, and Morin were the 4 picks that followed. Other than Risto (who is struggling), nothing much better than Nurse there.
2014: Draisaitl: Excellent pick
2015: McDavid: Excellent pick
2016: Puljujarvi: Jury still out. Good pick at the time though. Maybe Tkuchuk/Keller will be better long term, but that's TBD.
2017: Yamamoto: Looks like a good pick so far.

Post 1st round lack of success, I agree with, but to me, part of it was being at the top of some drafts that didn't have much top end talent. Pretty much any team in their spot would have selected the guys they did so hard to fault them for that.

 

[bionic]

You don't have to hit later if you hit early on. Look at Toronto, Dermott is like the first 2nd round pick to make that team in a decade. But hitting on all of Kadri, Rielly, Nylander, Marner, and Matthews has them in a better position. The real unfortunate thing for Edmonton is the trading of the Barzal pick. Moving Hall wasn't ideal, moving Eberle for what they got wasn't ideal, but nabbing Barzal would've been the Hail Mary answered. They're going to have to hope they hit on last year's and this year's picks, because I don't trust Chiarelli to trade his way out of this.

Yes hitting in your first rounder's is optimal. But the leafs hitting on Dermott and Brown also helped. But the most important thing is making good trades. Without them you're screwed.

 

[X66]

To be successful you need to:

Draft well
Know how to manage your assets
Make smart trades
Make smart signings

You don't need all hitting at the same time, especially if you do really well in others but man the Oilers have not.

Drafting, outside of their first round picks they haven't drafted really well for a long time. This isn't just Chiarelli's fault it's been happening for a long time there.

Asset Management, if you give Chiarelli anything other than an F you're being too generous.

Making Smart Trades, I still think he's made some good trades like getting Talbot and Maroon, but then you factor in the Hall and G.Reinhart trades and it's looks bad.

Smart Signings, Lucic should say it all here, but unfortunately it doesn't when you factor in Russell right behind him.

 

[Midnight Judges]

How naive do you have to be to think that one superstar automatically makes a team good?

Uh, go to the history of hockey forum. Pretty much every single poster in there credits and faults individual players with team success.

The myth that 1 player can carry a hockey team is a foundational assumption for virtually every player ranking that is done by the NHL, TSN, ESPN, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in agreement with it. Just pointing out that the naivete you bring up is rampant in the hockey media and among hockey fans.

 

[Baxterman]

Post 1st round lack of success, I agree with, but to me, part of it was being at the top of some drafts that didn't have much top end talent. Pretty much any team in their spot would have selected the guys they did so hard to fault them for that.

The only one is Murray over Yak. There was plenty of discussion about that one, including even supposedly with the Oilers scouts wanting Murray but the owner stepping in. Not sure if that is true but based on other moves it seems very possible and shows an issue there being the owner.

It isn't like Murray has been a perennial Norris candidate but he is still a solid NHL defenceman who is a clear upgrade on a lot of guys the Oilers had and possible could have prevented them making the awful Hall-Larsson deal.

 

[Crede777]

To be successful you need to:

Draft well
Know how to manage your assets
Make smart trades
Make smart signings

You don't need all hitting at the same time, especially if you do really well in others but man the Oilers have not.

Drafting, outside of their first round picks they haven't drafted really well for a long time. This isn't just Chiarelli's fault it's been happening for a long time there.

Asset Management, if you give Chiarelli anything other than an F you're being too generous.

Making Smart Trades, I still think he's made some good trades like getting Talbot and Maroon, but then you factor in the Hall and G.Reinhart trades and it's looks bad.

Smart Signings, Lucic should say it all here, but unfortunately it doesn't when you factor in Russell right behind him.

Teams also need players and staff who expect to win. When a team with a recent history of success hits a rough patch, the players act like they'll get through it and things will turn around. When a team with a recent history of failure hits a rough patch, the players act like "oh no, here we go again."

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Because as good as Mcdavid is, he is 1 player and other than Drisatial he has no supporting cast.

Look no further than the Leafs, yes they have Matthews, but he has Marner Nylander, Marleau, JVR, Kadri,Brown, Hyman and Kapenan around him.

Where is that for Mcdavid? it doesn't exist he has very little support around him.

If Mcdavid doesn't score Edmonton loses.

That is unacceptable and needs to be fixed.

I don’t disagree with you, but if you’re using marleau as support for Matthews, so are rnh lucic maroon for mcdavid

 

[Tobias Kahun]

They're this bad because of their cheapskate owner.

How anyone can sit there and think getting rid of Chia and TMac = better times when the guy who enables their failure (not to mention still retains those responsible for a decade of failure) is still in control is beyond me. Besides, we all know the old boys club is just itching for another try and I'm sure they're gonna get it as soon as Chia and TMac get canned.

Why else do you think they hired Coffey? Says it all right there.

Nothing will change in Oil Country until he either sells the team or passes away.

Our owner is the last thing you should be calling cheap, idiot yes, cheap no.

He would rather create new positions just to pay his friends for being useless

 

[fsanford]

They still have culture issues, they need a guy like Darryl Sutter to instill a culture and system. Players are probably going to hate it but its what they need.

 

[oXo Cube]

They still have culture issues, they need a guy like Darryl Sutter to instill a culture and system. Players are probably going to hate it but its what they need.

No, we need fewer crappy players.

'Culture change' is a meme that gets used to trick fans into thinking its OK to trade Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I don’t disagree with you, but if you’re using marleau as support for Matthews, so are rnh lucic maroon for mcdavid

Lucic was meant to be a support piece, but he is not, not really 9 goals is simply not enough for what he is being paid to put that in perspective, Zach Hyman has scored 2 more goals and 1 more point than Lucic for about 1/3 of Lucic salary.

Maroon I like and would put him as a support piece if he wasn't going to be gone at some point between now and Monday, but he is, unless he gets hurt so he is not included.

The way I see it Mcdavid has 1 true support piece around him and that is Leon, and that is a problem because if Leon plays C Mcdavid has no one to play with.

I wonder if the oilers try to use RNH as a trade chip to try and fix that between now and next season.

A 6 million dollar #3 center is expensive

 

[Jamin]

Some of it is being lucky enough to have high picks at the right time.

2010: Hall was an excellent pick, but Chiarelli traded him.
2011: A weak top of draft to get the 1st OA. RNH was the right pick at the time, but there wasn't a McDavid/Matthews type. Klefbom also a good pick given the weakness of that draft.
2012: An even weaker top of the draft to get the 1st OA. Yak? Murray? Galchenyuk? Ugh.
2013: Nurse wasn't a great pick, but he's coming around. Risto, Nichushkin, Horvat, and Morin were the 4 picks that followed. Other than Risto (who is struggling), nothing much better than Nurse there.
2014: Draisaitl: Excellent pick
2015: McDavid: Excellent pick
2016: Puljujarvi: Jury still out. Good pick at the time though. Maybe Tkuchuk/Keller will be better long term, but that's TBD.
2017: Yamamoto: Looks like a good pick so far.

Post 1st round lack of success, I agree with, but to me, part of it was being at the top of some drafts that didn't have much top end talent. Pretty much any team in their spot would have selected the guys they did so hard to fault them for that.

I always say this and no one ever comments in it.

People act like all drafts are equal.

Well we got Crosby and Malkin and don't suck. What if it was Crosby and Yak/RNH, I'm having doubts the team is as good.

Not to excuse management since chia sucks but all 1oa picks are not equal

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I always say this and no one ever comments in it.

People act like all drafts are equal.

Well we got Crosby and Malkin and don't suck. What if it was Crosby and Yak/RNH, I'm having doubts the team is as good.

Not to excuse management since chia sucks but all 1oa picks are not equal

Why do people keep using Malkin in analogies that involve quality of 1st overall picks the Oilers picked?

 

[ManofSteel55]

No depth, tons of guys underperforming, but really, to me it looks like most of the team has lost their confidence completely. Not sure how they can gain that back, but they've shown that this is a fragile locker room, and despite making big changes, they still seem like they expect to lose a lot of the time.

That, coupled with having few NHL ready prospects (stop blowing mid round picks you a-holes) is going to make this summer interesting to say the least.

 

[Jamin]

Why do people keep using Malkin in analogies that involve quality of 1st overall picks the Oilers picked?

Because pens 2nd pick is better then most first picks the last decade including every oiler first pick not named mcdavid.

You keep hearing crap of they went first they should be good. But as I always say not all picks are equal and pens seem to be a good example

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No depth, tons of guys underperforming, but really, to me it looks like most of the team has lost their confidence completely. Not sure how they can gain that back, but they've shown that this is a fragile locker room, and despite making big changes, they still seem like they expect to lose a lot of the time.

That, coupled with having few NHL ready prospects (stop blowing mid round picks you a-holes) is going to make this summer interesting to say the least.

Honest question: has a pick outside of the 1st round actually made a noticeable impact for the Oilers? Their core seems to be made up of 1st round picks and trade/free agent acquisitions.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Because pens fans act like they didn't pick high yet their 2nd pick is better then most first picks including every oiler first pick not named mcdavid

The Pens didn't pick as high constantly as the Oilers did. They certainly didn't pick 1st overall anywhere as close to as many times. But I don't thin many Pens fans will argue they didn't benefit from the times they did pick high.

 

[ManofSteel55]

No, we need fewer crappy players.

'Culture change' is a meme that gets used to trick fans into thinking its OK to trade Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.

Culture change is a term used when the players expect to suck. Like this year. Hopefully they find a way to figure that out over the summer.

But yes, fewer crappy players. Or more good players. We need to overhaul our PK, and we need two top six wingers (one for each side) somehow, and that's without taking away from what we have elsewhere. And we need Talbot to rebound, he's been a big problem this year.

 

[ManofSteel55]

The Pens didn't pick as high constantly as the Oilers did. They certainly didn't pick 1st overall anywhere as close to as many times. But I don't thin many Pens fans will argue they didn't benefit from the times they did pick high.

Get off of this. The Penguins were a bottom two team for 3 years running (not counting the lockout), just as the Oilers were. The only difference is that Pittsburgh just was lucky enough to suck at the right time to get Crosby and Malkin, where the Oilers got their firsts in years where there were no superstars ('11, '12). Yes, we got lucky and got McDavid, but Pittsburgh got two generational talents in back to back years, guys who came in and were impact players from day one. Take a look at Edmonton's list - yes, more top 5 picks. But aside from McDavid (and maybe Draisaitl), none of them are superstar players. The only difference between Pittsburgh of the early - mid 2000's and the Oilers of the 2010's, is that the Penguins sucked at the right time to get better players.

2002 - 5th overall (Whitney)
2003 - 1st overall (Fleury)
2004 - 2nd overall (Malkin)
2005 - 1st overall (Crosby)
2006 - 2nd overall (Staal)

2010 - 1st overall (Hall)
2011 - 1st overall (Nuge)
2012 - 1st overall (Yakupov, ie, nothing)
2013 - No top 5 pick (Nurse at 7)
2014 - 3rd overall (Draisaitl)
2015 - 1st overall (McDavid)
2016 - 4th overall (Pulujarvi)

 

[tom leafers]

Get off of this. The Penguins were a bottom two team for 3 years running (not counting the lockout), just as the Oilers were. The only difference is that Pittsburgh just was lucky enough to suck at the right time to get Crosby and Malkin, where the Oilers got their firsts in years where there were no superstars ('11, '12). Yes, we got lucky and got McDavid, but Pittsburgh got two generational talents in back to back years, guys who came in and were impact players from day one. Take a look at Edmonton's list - yes, more top 5 picks. But aside from McDavid (and maybe Draisaitl), none of them are superstar players. The only difference between Pittsburgh of the early - mid 2000's and the Oilers of the 2010's, is that the Penguins sucked at the right time to get better players.

2002 - 5th overall (Whitney)
2003 - 1st overall (Fleury)
2004 - 2nd overall (Malkin)
2005 - 1st overall (Crosby)
2006 - 2nd overall (Staal)

2010 - 1st overall (Hall)
2011 - 1st overall (Nuge)
2012 - 1st overall (Yakupov, ie, nothing)
2013 - No top 5 pick (Nurse at 7)
2014 - 3rd overall (Draisaitl)
2015 - 1st overall (McDavid)
2016 - 4th overall (Pulujarvi)

Just goes to show how lucky you have to be to build through the draft. You can have all of the top picks that you want but its never a guarantee. Dam though did Pittsburgh ever get lucky in those 2003-2006 drafts

 

[Jay haller]

Poor coaching, management, scouting and development.

paying someone like Kris Russell who is terrible 4 mill giving him a NTC while letting go of someone like osterle who is not good either but makes under 1mill is prime example