Holloway and Broberg or Zegras and Guhle

[smokersarejokers]

I’m at the point where I believe it’s a development issue more than a drafting issue. There’s been a laundry list of players the team has picked over the last 15 years in particular that have excelled in junior/Europe after getting drafted but completely fizzle out when they turn pro into the Oilers system.

Agreed. I'm hoping Jeff Jackson and the new GM change things up in Bakersfield. Too many young players aren't being put in positions to succeed. Bourgault isn't playing great, but the organization isn't really putting him in positions to succeed.

Things were good when Woody was there, but they seem to have taken a nose dive under Chaulk.

Also, every single team has some kind of Director of Player Development and the Oilers don't. Can't figure that one out.

 

[The Nuge]

The constant drafting of players with low hockey sense makes me lean toward drafting.

You can develop skill, defense, skating, etc, but you can't develop hockey sense. You can work with a guy like Broberg all you want, but he's always going to be limited by how poorly he processes the game at the NHL level, for example.

The Oilers always seem to be obsessed with the wrong type of project. They target big, fast players and hope they learn how to play hockey. The projects they should be targeting are guys like Tyson Foerster(my favorite guy in the draft back in 2020). He was ranked near the end of the 1st because he was a guy with an elite shot and top-end hockey sense, but bad skating and questionable defense. Fast forward to today and his skating has improved a ton and he has some of the best defensive metrics in the league to go along with that elite shot(on pace for 20g as a rookie) and hockey sense.

I think it goes both ways. You can teach skill to a certain extent, but you’re never going to develop Desharnais into an offensive defenseman or teach Lavoie how to stick handle like McDavid. Defense is probably the easiest thing to teach imo, so, with Broberg, you’re taking a guy with a lot of skill and hoping you can teach him where and when he needs to use those skills. Even if Broberg never put it together offensively, there’s no reason he shouldn’t be able to learn the defensive side of the game enough to be a Kulak type (who was as bad defensively as I’ve ever seen someone in the WHL, but had a ton of raw talent).

 

[CycloneSweep]

I think it goes both ways. You can teach skill to a certain extent, but you’re never going to develop Desharnais into an offensive defenseman or teach Lavoie how to stick handle like McDavid. Defense is probably the easiest thing to teach imo, so, with Broberg, you’re taking a guy with a lot of skill and hoping you can teach him where and when he needs to use those skills. Even if Broberg never put it together offensively, there’s no reason he shouldn’t be able to learn the defensive side of the game enough to be a Kulak type (who was as bad defensively as I’ve ever seen someone in the WHL, but had a ton of raw talent).

Broberg didn’t have a ton of skill, he did in one tournament but outside of that he didn’t show much skill. He was a big fast D that they hoped could develop his skills.

 

[McDNicks17]

I think it goes both ways. You can teach skill to a certain extent, but you’re never going to develop Desharnais into an offensive defenseman or teach Lavoie how to stick handle like McDavid. Defense is probably the easiest thing to teach imo, so, with Broberg, you’re taking a guy with a lot of skill and hoping you can teach him where and when he needs to use those skills. Even if Broberg never put it together offensively, there’s no reason he shouldn’t be able to learn the defensive side of the game enough to be a Kulak type (who was as bad defensively as I’ve ever seen someone in the WHL, but had a ton of raw talent).

To a certain extent is all you need though. Take Desh, for example, he was drafted because he was huge and pretty smart. He had horrific skating and not much for puck skills. He improved them and now he's an NHLer. It doesn't really go both ways because if it were hockey sense he was lacking, he would have been cooked since it's something you either have or don't. There's no improving it.

There is a reason why Broberg might not learn the defensive side and that's hockey sense. I'm sure every player in the league knows how to play defense, but it's how you process it and actually read and react to it on the ice that matters. You aren't going to be a good defensive player when you're two seconds behind the play all the time and that's what we've seen from Broberg so far.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I’m at the point where I believe it’s a development issue more than a drafting issue. There’s been a laundry list of players the team has picked over the last 15 years in particular that have excelled in junior/Europe after getting drafted but completely fizzle out when they turn pro into the Oilers system.

I distinctly remember listening Bob asking draft experts about Broberg on Oilers Now and they all said he was slated to be picked in the late teens. Meanwhile Zegras had been considered a top-10 talent leading up to the draft.

Its definitely been a "we know more than everyone else" mentality. It's no different than trading the Barzal pick for Griffin Reinhart.

 

[CROTT]

I distinctly remember listening Bob asking draft experts about Broberg on Oilers Now and they all said he was slated to be picked in the late teens. Meanwhile Zegras had been considered a top-10 talent leading up to the draft.

Its definitely been a "we know more than everyone else" mentality. It's no different than trading the Barzal pick for Griffin Reinhart.

IIRC, Holland wanted a Defensman and out side of Byram the rankings were a crap shoot as it was a forward heavy top 15 as Seider was a reach as well.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

IIRC, Holland wanted a Defensman and out side of Byram the rankings were a crap shoot as it was a forward heavy top 15 as Seider was a reach as well.

Another shining example of why good teams select best player available

 

[fuswald]

What ifs. Meh.

 

[Mr Positive]

What ifs. Meh.

This. What is the point?

I'm thrilled to have our two guys. I know the clock is running on them but there is still a clear path for them to be crucial to the team

 

[Bryanbryoil]

For the record, I still believe in Holloway. Guhle >>> Broberg though.

 

[ujju2]

Of course I'm biased toward the Oilers, but I really do prefer the guys we have. Broberg to me is the best of the 4, and Guhle is probably the worst of the 4. Zegras is ahead of Holloway, so the ranking is:

Broberg
Zegras
Holloway
Guhle

and I honestly think Holloway has pretty decent potential - he's big, fast, and can shoot, which is a great combo.

So, this aged well...

In any case I still have high hopes for Holloway. I'd put money on him being at least a 20 goal scorer soon. Broberg? I guess we'll see..

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

So, this aged well...

In any case I still have high hopes for Holloway. I'd put money on him being at least a 20 goal scorer soon. Broberg? I guess we'll see..

Holloway's got 6 goals in his 83 NHL games. This also isn't a 20 year old rookie coming from the OHL. He'll be 23 to start next season, thats typically the age that separates the prospects from the suspects. If it doesn't happen for him next year I won't be holding my breath.

 

[CROTT]

Holloway's got 6 goals in his 83 NHL games. This also isn't a 20 year old rookie coming from the OHL. He'll be 23 to start next season, thats typically the age that separates the prospects from the suspects. If it doesn't happen for him next year I won't be holding my breath.

For me I see Holloway eventually filling a similar role to Moreau or Grier. A middle sixer that puts in 15-20 a year.

 

[Pavel10]

Any more proof required how badly Holland sucks at drafting?

Chiarelli for all his warts got us skinner, desharnais, Mcleod, outside the first round. Holland hasn't found one serviceable pick that looks NHL ready.

 

[VerdadII]

Holloway is a total zero.
One goal that McDavid banked the puck off his ass.
Perfectly symbolizes his lack of talent and impact.

As Broberg, we all remember his non-performance in Game 5 of the series against Vegas.
Probably cost the Oilers the Stanley Cup.

Both should have been traded 3 weeks ago, but Holland is an abject incompetent.

 

[Pavel10]

Holloway is a total zero.
One goal that McDavid banked the puck off his ass.
Perfectly symbolizes his lack of talent and impact.

As Broberg, we all remember his non-performance in Game 5 of the series against Vegas.
Probably cost the Oilers the Stanley Cup.

Both should have been traded 3 weeks ago, but Holland is an abject incompetent.

Most important move this offseason will be a gm that has a track record of draft and development.

Im not even sure does bingo Bob still have a job here? His two stupid gm hires have cost this team massively.

 

[Rpenny]

With the Broberg pick, it looks more and more like it was a panic move and they screwed up. Sounds like the Oilers truly thought that Seider would drop to them and were tunnel focused on getting a D man. It sounds like the OIlers knew that Klefbom was going to be a bigger issue and they thought Broberg would develop quicker

 

[Rpenny]

Holloway is a total zero.
One goal that McDavid banked the puck off his ass.
Perfectly symbolizes his lack of talent and impact.

As Broberg, we all remember his non-performance in Game 5 of the series against Vegas.
Probably cost the Oilers the Stanley Cup.

Both should have been traded 3 weeks ago, but Holland is an abject incompetent.

no market for either right now. So you take two 5th or 6th for them. Neither one has any value to any team but us. As for the options for this pole. I believe we now have enough information from different sources, Oilers were always going to take a D with the pick the wasted on Broberg. Oilers new Klefbom was a ticking time bomb that was going to go off sooner than later. Oilers had no legit top end defenders in the system and knew they had to act. The back to back years of taking a D in the first round makes more sense now than at the time. Oilers were hoping Broberg would follow the development path of Bouchard. Clearly he did not

 

[joestevens29]

Another shining example of why good teams select best player available

Especially when it comes to d-men that aren't exactly going to give you an immediate impact anyway.

The weird thing with hindsight was why did Holland think our defensive prospects or defensive drafting was bad? Jones, Bear and Lagesson were all trending pretty well at the pro level. Throw in Marino as well that hadn't played pro, but teams wanted.

Couple that with all the other d-men that the Oil had drafted the few years before Broberg and it's quite funny that he forced that pick to be a d-man.

The other kicker is why did he force a LD when we had Nurse and Klef?