Holland's days numbered or un-numbered?

KGL

Auston 3:16
Sep 5, 2014
7,499
9
Let's not exaggerate Holland averaged 11:34 TOI in his first season with the Leafs.

Okay maybe not three minutes a game (Hard to remember, it was two years ago) but after checking the game logs for that year, it was still pretty bad. The pick was conditional upon him playing 25 games with the Leafs. In his first 25 games he played under 9 minutes seven times with five of those times being right around five minutes or under. Carlyle still wasted a pick. If he wasn't going to use Holland, Nonis should've taken him away.
 

Swervin81

Leaf fan | YYZ -> SEA
Nov 10, 2011
36,464
1,571
Seattle, WA
The reason we had no C depth behind McClement when Bolland went down was because that ****ing moron Nonis traded away Colborne just so he could keep Orr AND McLaren on the roster :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Ergo, he trades Colborne for peanuts and acquires an inferior Holland for even more assets. God, Nonis was a nuclear bomb to this organization.
 

Swayze*

Guest
The reason we had no C depth behind McClement when Bolland went down was because that ****ing moron Nonis traded away Colborne just so he could keep Orr AND McLaren on the roster :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Ergo, he trades Colborne for peanuts and acquires an inferior Holland for even more assets. God, Nonis was a nuclear bomb to this organization.

the guy just couldn't help himself

one dumb move after the next

it was a perfect storm of ****
 

diceman934

Help is on the way.
Jul 31, 2010
17,338
4,149
NHL player factory
Any one who thinks that Babcock is trying to light a fire under his rear end with the comment last night has not paid attention to Babcock over the years.

He makes his decision on players based on the players effort and ability to play within his structure and Holland has looked lost. Holland's hockey IQ is being exposed. Unless there is more injuries he will be moved.
 

slozo

Registered User
Aug 28, 2011
3,594
781
Newmarket, ON
Who do you have as underwhelming/replaceable?

PAP, Arco, and Holland have been the most disappointing so far.

Marcinin and Polak take the cake as defenseman.

Please add Grabner to the "most disappointing" list. I don't think I'm alone in being utterly disappointed in his performance so far . . .
 

Jack Bauer

Registered User
May 30, 2007
6,154
743
Cape Breton
.......... clearly you missed the point if you thought the previous statement was pertaining to the good seasons of jvr/mo. That point means that 95% of the team looked terrible last year, not just holland, you really cant argue that.

Nobody has argued that. But since only about 5% of that team has been removed, people saying players like Holland suck using last season as part of the sample size is to be expected.

Again last night he was invisible. Didn't look at all motivated after Saturdays benching.
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
35,591
16,775
There is little to dislike about Holland this year beyond the fact that he's not converting offensive chances (like many others on our team).

I'm sure the goals will flow for everyone eventually.

The things we need to focus on is special teams first and foremost. Our PK has been our biggest issue by far, and our PP is not much better. Over 1/3 of our goals against have been PP/SH goals against.

After that it's just eliminating defensive mistakes and converting offensive chances. We start to that, we'll start to have more success.
 

burpsalot

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
5,633
0
Reading some of the comments here I truly wonder if people actually watch games or just jump on the bandwagon. Holland has played most of his games with the likes of Grabner, PAP & Arcobello playing around 13 mins/game. In the first 5 or so games, he was generating some good scoring opportunities for himself & others & has remained a plus player. In the game against Buffalo, he played with Mathias & Boyes & they did nothing. He was given an opportunity with some better wingers & the line slept through the night.

If I had any complaint against Holland, it would be about playing with intensity at a consistent level. When you get one shift on & then two off, it means you can do it, but consistency is the problem. That's what Babcock wants to see. I think he knows Holland has the capability, but does he have the ability to do it every night, every shift. He's getting the kick in the ass & maybe a little bit of fear to perform now. Regardless of how bad people think he has played, I doubt many here would put him below Grabner, Arcobello & PAP.

I think waiving him is a ridiculous thought. If there isn't room for him at centre I would move him to a wing before waiving or trying to trade him. We spend the summer looking for free agents & PDO's but some people here want to dump a 24 year old future RFA with a good contract.
 

Jack Bauer

Registered User
May 30, 2007
6,154
743
Cape Breton
I think waiving him is a ridiculous thought. If there isn't room for him at centre I would move him to a wing before waiving or trying to trade him. We spend the summer looking for free agents & PDO's but some people here want to dump a 24 year old future RFA with a good contract.

To be fair though, 24yr old pending RFAs should be playing with some urgency to try and secure that first really big pay day. I've seen none of that from Holland.

24yr olds who have shown limited development at this level(great AHL numbers I agree) have a limited shelf life because of players like Froese or Panik waiting for a chance to earn minutes. Every team has those players as well, not just us.

20 years ago 24 used to be really young it seemed. But in todays NHL youth is at such a premium that by 24 you generally know what you have in a player especially one that's been in your organization for multiple training camps and played over 100 games.

Some of those PDO's/veteran 1yr UFA's we were looking at are already well above him in the lineup which also speaks to his play. If the 30 something veterans with no deals come in and outplay him before the top picks really hit the NHL then does he really have much potential left to find?

I know i'm doubtful. And not so I can just say 'I told you so'. I just think we have better talent who has earned ice time and really can't see Holland being one that gets away by hitting another level with a new team. I think he's a top 6 forward without 20 goal potential who is out of place in a bottom 6.

Could be a great Marlie down the stretch though if nobody wants him. I don't see him making it to Christmas under Babcock, personally.
 

Purity*

Registered User
Jan 29, 2010
8,446
1
The reason we had no C depth behind McClement when Bolland went down was because that ****ing moron Nonis traded away Colborne just so he could keep Orr AND McLaren on the roster :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Ergo, he trades Colborne for peanuts and acquires an inferior Holland for even more assets. God, Nonis was a nuclear bomb to this organization.

Might have been his worst series of events after the Clarkson signing/Grabo buyout.
 

Guy Boucher

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
4,633
1,025
Don't get me wrong - Holland has been mediocre at every aspect of hockey but I really don't see the appeal of Froese either.
 

Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
5,592
413
Let's not exaggerate Holland averaged 11:34 TOI in his first season with the Leafs.

He's not even exaggerating. Look up his TOI in the games around his game #20+ mark. Carlyle used him around 4 minutes (and as low as 2-3) a game for multiple games and completely burned that second for nothing, leading to what many assume was a harsh conversation and Nonis taking control.
 

burpsalot

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
5,633
0
To be fair though, 24yr old pending RFAs should be playing with some urgency to try and secure that first really big pay day. I've seen none of that from Holland.

24yr olds who have shown limited development at this level(great AHL numbers I agree) have a limited shelf life because of players like Froese or Panik waiting for a chance to earn minutes. Every team has those players as well, not just us.

20 years ago 24 used to be really young it seemed. But in todays NHL youth is at such a premium that by 24 you generally know what you have in a player especially one that's been in your organization for multiple training camps and played over 100 games.

Some of those PDO's/veteran 1yr UFA's we were looking at are already well above him in the lineup which also speaks to his play. If the 30 something veterans with no deals come in and outplay him before the top picks really hit the NHL then does he really have much potential left to find?

I know i'm doubtful. And not so I can just say 'I told you so'. I just think we have better talent who has earned ice time and really can't see Holland being one that gets away by hitting another level with a new team. I think he's a top 6 forward without 20 goal potential who is out of place in a bottom 6.

Could be a great Marlie down the stretch though if nobody wants him. I don't see him making it to Christmas under Babcock, personally.

If they are playing with urgency to secure a big pay day they can go screw themselves. If they are playing with intensity everyday because that is their job, then they can stay. I think Babcock is more interested in the later.
 

Purity*

Registered User
Jan 29, 2010
8,446
1
Hopefully this nonsensical praise of Holland has seen the end of its days. There were a few posters saying before the season how Babcock could transform Holland into a dependable player who he could "lean on" :laugh:

I've said it for a long time now, this kid probably wouldn't crack more than half of the bottom 6's around the league. There is nothing good or special about this player. The fact that some people were saying he was comparable and even better than Kadri was a ****ing joke.
 

Mikeyg

Registered User
Dec 26, 2011
8,884
2,579
Nobody has argued that. But since only about 5% of that team has been removed, people saying players like Holland suck using last season as part of the sample size is to be expected.

Again last night he was invisible. Didn't look at all motivated after Saturdays benching.

To be fair, he did play on the 4th line
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,764
10,865
Hopefully this nonsensical praise of Holland has seen the end of its days. There were a few posters saying before the season how Babcock could transform Holland into a dependable player who he could "lean on" :laugh:

I've said it for a long time now, this kid probably wouldn't crack more than half of the bottom 6's around the league. There is nothing good or special about this player. The fact that some people were saying he was comparable and even better than Kadri was a ****ing joke.

He and Panik are the same kick at the can. No gold nugget to be had here.
 

JackJ

Registered User
Feb 7, 2012
5,330
0
Amazed at the amount of chances given to a player who's ceiling is at best a third liner.
 

Leafling

Registered User
Oct 24, 2015
503
182
Holland has just went cold this year, its like he was sleeping when the other young leafs were being told that it's a show me season for them...

And it's truly disappointing to see the experienced guys they signed this year, last year we had guys like Santorelli, winnik tearing it up, even making our top players look bad... I guess you can't always get lucky with these trades.

If they along with Holland keep playing like this for 20 game mark, we might as well start giving call ups to our bottom six prospects like gauthier, shoshnikov, leivo etc
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
41,416
33,314
St. Paul, MN
He seems to have fallen out of favour among the coaches.

He's an effective 4th/3rd line tweener. He just seems to lack what's needed to up his level of play.
 

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