Holland's days numbered or un-numbered?

[p.l.f.]

Doesn't look good for him
Froese seems to be in the good books
Kind of suprised....

Click to read more...

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'm not shocked. Anaheim soured on his quickly. Never showed even to be a consistent top 6 forward here.

If we could get a 3rd or 4th i'd cut our losses take the pick and bring up a Panik.

 

[WTFMAN99]

He seemed like a filler 3C type...

 

[Mikeyg]

Guy gets sat 1 game and then everybody wants him gone, thats pretty typical around here. If you really think that babs has given up on him after 10 games or whatever, thats simply not the case. Holland has a decent skill set, lets just wait and see what babs can do with him over the course of 2 to 3 months before making threads like this.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Guy gets sat 1 game and then everybody wants him gone, thats pretty typical around here. If you really think that babs has given up on him after 10 games or whatever, thats simply not the case. Holland has a decent skill set, lets just wait and see what babs can do with him over the course of 2 to 3 months before making threads like this.

Let it be noted that I wasn't exactly high on him going back to last year. His talent, shot, size etc all say he should be a better player, but ultimately not seeing any results from him.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Holland has some talents, but what you do with it is what matters. He is not especially good at defending opposition transition, he's not very good in the defensive zone, he is not very good at carrying and moving the puck, he's not very good at the cycle game and he isn't very good at the forecheck. He is decent at some of these things, but he doesn't utilize his talents to be effective at them.

What he is good at it handling the puck when its under his control, and he's got decent skill to make offensive plays.

In the end I see him as a stop gap bottom six center. He's definitely more skilled than Spaling, but the latter can actually perform multiple of the jobs mentioned above effectively, so he's got a clearer area of usage. Holland is just mostly an option, but a meh one, at a lot of things.

 

[SprDaVE]

You can see the skill level is there and sometimes he looks great but his consistency is garbage. His compete level is also pretty bad.

I think he was worth taking a chance on at the time but he's never been able to take the next step.

He seemed poised to have a breakout year this year. Very involved in the community this off-season. Seemed to say all the right things in the off-season and in the training camp. Seemed to know what to do to get better. But here we are, with zero growth in his game. It's frustrating because I do think he has the tools to be a really good player but unfortunately, there's a gear missing on most nights.

I doubt he's on this roster for very long. Likely traded to a team that needs cheap depth in their top 9, perhaps packaged with another player.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Guy gets sat 1 game and then everybody wants him gone, thats pretty typical around here. If you really think that babs has given up on him after 10 games or whatever, thats simply not the case. Holland has a decent skill set, lets just wait and see what babs can do with him over the course of 2 to 3 months before making threads like this.

He's an average player who has shown no sign of fulfilling his 1st round potential.

How is wanting him gone typical? We have management promising to get of players and he's someone with a low contract who might actually get something in return and players in the AHL who can bring more then he does.

Wanting him gone only makes sense unless you disagree with the 1st part of my comment and have seen enough in him to make you think he has a lot more to give.

 

[burpsalot]

He's played some good games & has been saddled with the bottom wrung of the wingers for most games.

Babcock is just making a correction with him to encourage his intensity level. Just part of coaching tactics that are legit & deserved. Babcock will turn this around shortly with better wingers & praise.

Wait for it.

 

[Mess]

Holland does appear to be the player in Babcock's doghouse at present.

With Bozak out this was an opportunity to excel and instead he became a healthy scratch and Froese a player in the ECHL last year played in his place.

Yesterday Froese centered the 2nd line and got praise from the coach after the game.

There is certainly writing on the wall, and its up to Holland to turn this around and change his future.

 

[JEI]

Think it was Jonas Siegel who noted that Holland was having trouble over thinking the system Babcock implements (Holland admitting as such). Where Babcock wants his system to be instinctual, Holland is getting into his own head and results in him watching a lot of play rather than being involved.

Given the teams lack of depth at centre, I don't think I would be quick to push Holland out the door. The inconsistency is maddening, but given the type of year we are in for - might as well hold onto the 24 year old former 1st rounder and see if he can turn himself around.

 

[mashedpotato]

very little jam in his game; surprising considering they brought up that kid to replace him on a team that has a dire need down the middle.

Watching him last night, he was almost invisible.

 

[Banic]

Babcock has said that Froese is staying, and therefore 1 of Arcobello or Holland will be demoted/traded to make room.

This isn't Leafs Nation souring on him as much as speculation based off of what we have heard.

 

[Mad Brills*]

He needs to be cut. Awful player.

 

[Bullseye]

He's played some good games & has been saddled with the bottom wrung of the wingers for most games.

Babcock is just making a correction with him to encourage his intensity level. Just part of coaching tactics that are legit & deserved. Babcock will turn this around shortly with better wingers & praise.

Wait for it.

This is closer to the truth than Holland being gone. I really want Froese to succeed but he hasn't done anything yet to push Holland out of a job other than a phenomenal f/o percentage yesterday but he was not on for many offensive opportunities and he was chasing on 2 of the 3 goals against. I think Babcock is now applying pressure to raise the bar on this group of mediocre centres.

 

[SprDaVE]

Think it was Jonas Siegel who noted that Holland was having trouble over thinking the system Babcock implements (Holland admitting as such). Where Babcock wants his system to be instinctual, Holland is getting into his own head and results in him watching a lot of play rather than being involved.

Given the teams lack of depth at centre, I don't think I would be quick to push Holland out the door. The inconsistency is maddening, but given the type of year we are in for - might as well hold onto the 24 year old former 1st rounder and see if he can turn himself around.

That's fair but with a lot of changes coming, I think he'll be the odd man out.

He had the perfect opportunity to take over the 2nd line role and he just basically gave away the chance. Probably very frustrating if your Babcock and the management. Kadri is earning his long-term extension with his recent play, and with Nylander coming up, Froese showing decently well in a bottom line role, and the uncertainty of Bozak's value... I'm not sure how he'll stay on.

I think he'll be put in a package with Polak or another player. Could be enticing for a team looking for scoring depth to get a 24 year old player capable of 10 ish goals.

It's early though. A lot of things can change and he could turn it around.

 

[slozo]

it's an interesting turn of events to be sure. He definitely has some promise, and certainly enough talent to be an effective third liner with second line filling capabilities. but his future isn't looking very bright right now. Tough to say whether he is on the way out, or if this is just part of the learning process he has to go through with Babcock. I tend to think it's more of the latter, but we will see soon

 

[WTFMAN99]

Holland has some talents, but what you do with it is what matters. He is not especially good at defending opposition transition, he's not very good in the defensive zone, he is not very good at carrying and moving the puck, he's not very good at the cycle game and he isn't very good at the forecheck. He is decent at some of these things, but he doesn't utilize his talents to be effective at them.

What he is good at it handling the puck when its under his control, and he's got decent skill to make offensive plays.

In the end I see him as a stop gap bottom six center. He's definitely more skilled than Spaling, but the latter can actually perform multiple of the jobs mentioned above effectively, so he's got a clearer area of usage. Holland is just mostly an option, but a meh one, at a lot of things.

Described it perfectly.

 

[Mikeyg]

Let it be noted that I wasn't exactly high on him going back to last year. His talent, shot, size etc all say he should be a better player, but ultimately not seeing any results from him.

Thats basically what I just said, he has a skillset but hes not doing anything with it, lets see if babs can get anything out of him.

 

[Mikeyg]

He's an average player who has shown no sign of fulfilling his 1st round potential.

How is wanting him gone typical? We have management promising to get of players and he's someone with a low contract who might actually get something in return and players in the AHL who can bring more then he does.

Wanting him gone only makes sense unless you disagree with the 1st part of my comment and have seen enough in him to make you think he has a lot more to give.

Players dont have some obligation to "fulfill the potential to the level of where they were drafted" fans may think like that but managers and players dont. To be clear, there is a difference between moving past a player and that of actually trading a player. I think its to early to give up on him when you are just looking at this 10 game sample, which is exactly what babs and lou are looking at. Lets let it play out before making rash decisions about players.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Bad player, another terrible nonis trade

 

[Jack Bauer]

Players dont have some obligation to "fulfill the potential to the level of where they were drafted" fans may think like that but managers and players dont. To be clear, there is a difference between moving past a player and that of actually trading a player. I think its to early to give up on him when you are just looking at this 10 game sample, which is exactly what babs and lou are looking at. Lets let it play out before making rash decisions about players.

Who is only looking at a 10 game sample? Babcock, maybe. We've seen him for way more then 10 games.

Fulfilling any potential would be great. I don't see him doing it.

 

[p.l.f.]

You'd think somethings up with sudden Froese love babs is talking
Unless it's a trick to pressure dutch

 

[Mikeyg]

Who is only looking at a 10 game sample? Babcock, maybe. We've seen him for way more then 10 games.

Fulfilling any potential would be great. I don't see him doing it.

Who honestly looked good last year aside from Morgan and JVR? When the team struggles as bad as it did, individuals typically look like crap. Thats the problem with looking at the last year sample, aside from the fact that the coaching and management staff is basically all new this year as well. Its more realistic to evaluate him under this current management/coaching era. You may recall times last year where he looked really good and was scoring goals in bunches there, but theres also times where he looked terrible. Thats why the most sensible thing to do is to let it play out this year.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You'd think somethings up with sudden Froese love babs is talking
Unless it's a trick to pressure dutch

I can't say Froese has looked any better then Holland..

Kadri, Bozak, and Spaling seem to be legitimate centres for the team at this point...

Kadri
Bozak
Spaling

I'd be inclined to try Carrick at the 4C slot.