Holland Extended 4 Years

[Run the Jewels]

Question away. I don't think you will find any opposition here.

Yep, it looks like Johnny Boychuk is on the block and could be had for nothing other than a draft pick due to the Boston salary cap situation. If Holland didn't panic and sign Quincey and had Cleary sign with Grand Rapids where he possibly might be able to contribute, you could have had Boychuk, ie a right handed version of Quincey who can play on the power play. Then once you waive Kindl - it's not a matter of if, but when - you could have the following:

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Boychuk
Smith-Marchenko or Sproul
Lashoff

PP1
Kronwall-Boychuk

PP2
Smith-Sproul or Marchenko

PK1
Kronner-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Boychuk

So you get the two right-handed d-men your coach asked you for. Not Mikael Samuelsson. Not Ian White. Not Kyle Quincey. Holland has completely given up on doing his job, that's apparent to anyone who's paying attention. You don't sign the collection of stiffs he's signed over the past 2-3 years and garner any consideration for being on top of your profession. If it was anyone other than Holland signing those stiffs they would be mocked by the entire hockey world.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Boychuk isn't an option for pp. well, good option. he hasn't point on pp since 10-11 season. mostly cuz he isn't there much. he has fairly hard shot but doesn't have much of a offensive skills or instincts.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Boychuk isn't an option for pp. well, good option. he hasn't point on pp since 10-11 season. mostly cuz he isn't there much. he has fairly hard shot but doesn't have much of a offensive skills or instincts.

He's signed for one more year so it buys us one season until Sproul, Marchenko and/or Jensen, ie all our right handed guys are ready to compete for NHL ice time. It would be a very easy way to clear out all the crap and give Babcock what he wants: right handed d-men. Instead we get two more years of Quincey.

 

[dtones520]

I don't think you will find many even attempting to criticize his drafting and development. You can't. But given the past 4-5 years you can give criticism to his ufa signings and absolute lack of trying to trade anything on this roster. The UFA signings sans alfie have been horrid so one can question nhl scouting. And the inability to make a deal with a cap floor team to grab just a 5-7th rounder for whatever required wasted bag of flesh to your liking is most of what is harped upon.

Though we are about to enter a time period where the biggest next critique is going to come online. The horrid management of assets. Because over the next two years we have quite a few assets reaching to waiver wire to be sent down basis. And one can reason with the absolute frequency are coaches on either ahl or nhl level get snatched up you can bet that the players who get shipped to waiver will get snatched up (not ferraro or callahan 4th line scrubs) but whoever of XO, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, and Nick Jensen for defense and Pulks on offense. Yet we continue to have dead weight on the roster when the spots can be filled by players who can be assets if we choose not to hold unto them.

How has he not tried trading anyone? We were in the mix for Bouwmeester in 2013, in fact we offered two of our four best prospects and a pick for him. We, reportedly, made a strong offer for Rick Nash as well and I'm sure there has been plenty of other offers he has made. Problem is that our best prospects come from low rounds, we don't have picks early in rounds and are, as of the last two years, been unwilling to trade our first round pick.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Boychuk isn't an option for pp. well, good option. he hasn't point on pp since 10-11 season. mostly cuz he isn't there much. he has fairly hard shot but doesn't have much of a offensive skills or instincts.

I am sure on a worse team he would get more PP time. Have to agree though his offensive instincts are not great, his shot is lethal. However, most of the times you see him score or get an assist it is from a hard shot on a keep in with traffic. I am not sure he has the passing ability to play on the PP consistently. He could be a guy you set up to thump it, but it is still pretty far from a certainty that he would work out, just because he is a down the boards guy 80% of the time and only uncorks that monster shot when situations dictate it, not sure how he would work out on the PP. Certainly the situation would dictate it more, but would he understand the movement or how and where to be? I am not so sure he would.

 

[odin1981]

If they are considered dead weight here, why would teams be so ready and willing to trade assets for them?

And let's wait to see how Quincey plays before bemoaning that signing anymore. If he plays like he did the second half and playoffs last year then that signing was a good deal.

Because unlike most I'm not expecting to turn them into gold. A player that can be turned into a 6-7th rounder is a plus which realistically is the most we could expect for a bottom 6 or third pairing type. Now if said player has more of a mid 6 upside and #4-5 d upside then you can maybe get a 4th or 5th. Those are the players he should be trying to move off not trying to give up future pieces and too many off for top 6 top 4 talent.

KFQ sucked for 75% of his time here the past 2 years. He only looked somewhat passable when he was paired with DD, on the last half of a season in his contract year, and still brought **** for offense. Watching him suck in a spectacular faction and commit dumb penalties is moronic. And what was the expectation when we brought him here to have? To be a second pairing puck mover. Has he provided any of that no. So of course we resign him for 2 years to a raise . We could have simply let him go and slotted in Smith with Dekeyser. Sure Smith will have growing pains but at least he can move the puck, and provide offense. And he is still not a finished product. So he still has 2-3 years of growth still in him. KFQ is done developing and a finished product he won't make gains anymore he will only get worse, granted I sure as hell hope he is a far, far away from Detroit when he hits 32+ age and starts to creep down further than the current **** stain that he is.

 

[Crymson]

If they are considered dead weight here, why would teams be so ready and willing to trade assets for them?

Guys like Andersson could be passed off for a low draft pick. He's a decent defensive center. Alternatively, he could be waived to make room for a better player. Holland would do neither of those, no matter if somebody better were waiting in the wings.

And let's wait to see how Quincey plays before bemoaning that signing anymore. If he plays like he did the second half and playoffs last year then that signing was a good deal.

If he plays like he did in the second half, the signing still sucked. Quincey is one-dimensional and makes many mistakes, and he constantly took bad penalties even during his better times last season. More, he has been positively putrid during 75% of his time with the team. It was a panic signing, plain and simple, and it was hugely idiotic.

As things stand, Quincey is the 5th-best defenseman in the organization. Given the rate at which Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko, and Backman are improving, it's not out of the question that one or more of them will be better than him soon. But he'll continue to be paid like a top-three defenseman anyway, on a contract he got because of Holland's terror of the unknown, and those four will stay in the minors anyway, because of Holland's terror of altering his methods even in the slightest.

Bad management. Just about every fan of this team would have been fine going into next season without Quincey, and every analyst I saw spoke up on the signing responded with befuddlement to it. This was, of course, as nothing to the reaction triggered by Cleary's signing. Holland's two major moves this offseason brought back guys whom NOBODY wanted on this team, and this while the organization is overflowing with talented prospects.

I hope this fool gets lustily booed on opening night. And at this point I don't care if the team makes the playoffs next season, because I'll know that the team could have been a true contender if Holland weren't such an insular wuss.

 

[dtones520]

Guys like Andersson could be passed off for a low draft pick. He's a decent defensive center. Alternatively, he could be waived to make room for a better player. Holland would do neither of those, no matter if somebody better were waiting in the wings.



If he plays like he did in the second half, the signing still sucked. Quincey is one-dimensional and makes many mistakes, and he constantly took bad penalties even during his better times last season. More, he has been positively putrid during 75% of his time with the team. It was a panic signing, plain and simple, and it was hugely idiotic.

As things stand, Quincey is the 5th-best defenseman in the organization. Given the rate at which Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko, and Backman are improving, it's not out of the question that one or more of them will be better than him soon. But he'll continue to be paid like a top-three defenseman anyway, on a contract he got because of Holland's terror of the unknown, and those four will stay in the minors anyway, because of Holland's terror of altering his methods even in the slightest.

Bad management. Just about every fan of this team would have been fine going into next season without Quincey, and every analyst I saw spoke up on the signing responded with befuddlement to it. This was, of course, as nothing to the reaction triggered by Cleary's signing. Holland's two major moves this offseason brought back guys whom NOBODY wanted on this team, and this while the organization is overflowing with talented prospects.

I hope this fool gets lustily booed on opening night. And at this point I don't care if the team makes the playoffs next season, because I'll know that the team could have been a true contender if Holland weren't such an insular wuss.

You hope Quincey gets booed for signing a contract that was offered to him? Wow that's really fair. Since he has been brought back here he has gotten nothing but unreasonable criticism from Wings fans. Yes, he played poorly after the trade, but even if he had played well people would have still bashed him because we gave a first for him when you didn't think it was worthy. Then when he finally gets his game together, which is mainly because Babcock finally allowed him to play his game and didn't pair him with a guy who inhibited his game, fans still give him ****. News flash, Kyle Quincey was our second best defenseman last year from February on. You can deny that all that you want and you can call his resigning, to a modest 2 year contract, a panic move, but his play put him back onto our list of potential free agent targets. If he continued playing like he was before February, I guarantee he is not brought back.

And why, if you are so upset with the job Holland does, do you continue watching the Red Wings? Their ownership clearly likes the direction he is taking this franchise, they offered him a four year deal. So why waste your time and energy watching a team you clearly don't agree with how it is run? Because things have not changed in the way it is being run since Holland has been here, but now that after a quarter century of being a legit contender running that model, things are getting a little bit tough and you and plenty of other fans jump off the bandwagon. Everything you bash Holland for are things he has done for years as our GM, but now it's a problem because the league has caught up to us. And everything Holland has or has not done have put us in a position that we can rebuild and retool into a new generation, potentially, without missing the playoffs. We are about 2 pieces away from being a legit Cup contender for the next 2-3 seasons and have a ton of assets and cap space to acquire those pieces. Why not let things play out before blowing our brains out.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Since he has been brought back here he has gotten nothing but unreasonable criticism from Wings fans.

Yeah, no.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

If Kyle Quincey is ever your team's second best defenseman, you are in big trouble.

Quincey is a garbage can. Being competent isn't a good enough reason to bring back a player. It's literally the bare minimum standard a player should strive for.

Quincey is horrendously inconsistent and provides no offense. In what world is a player like that worth four million dollars?

I would rather have Kent Huskins.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

If anyone said Quincey was our 2nd best defenseman, they were wrong.

Kronwall, Dekeyser, Ericsson and Smith are all better defenseman. That is the problem. One elite defenseman, some 2nd pairing defensemen, and a lot of garbage. No contender has ever went with that kind of defensive unit.

 

[Frk It]

If Kyle Quincey is ever your team's second best defenseman, you are in big trouble.

Absolutely.

Also disagree that he was 2nd best defenseman at any point. Hard for me to understand how he could be better than Dekeyser, when Dekeyser made him relevant.

 

[SirloinUB]

I would rather have Kent Huskins.

You forget this guy:

 

[crashman]

If Kyle Quincey is ever your team's second best defenseman, you are in big trouble

Not saying he is, but it's not nearly as clear cut that he's not, as some make it out as.

But yes, the Wings defense is definitely a big problem, and it's not a problem that will be solved from within anytime soon.

 

[jkutswings]

And why, if you are so upset with the job Holland does, do you continue watching the Red Wings? Their ownership clearly likes the direction he is taking this franchise, they offered him a four year deal. So why waste your time and energy watching a team you clearly don't agree with how it is run?

You're absolutely correct. That's why I cut the cord on cable when the last lockout hit, and I haven't missed it at all.

Until the Detroit Red Wings stop wasting their resources, when, IF THEY WERE EVEN AVERAGE at the elements of free agency and trades, they'd be contending for The Stanley Cup, I have not - and will not - waste my time or money on watching them.

You can talk up the prospects all you want, but the bottom line is that they haven't accomplished anything worthwhile over the last 5 years. And counting. But please, continue telling me how a guy who hasn't even cracked Grand Rapids yet and just learned how to shave will be a Norris winner any day now and will turn everything around. Mmkay...yeah.

 

[probertrules24]

You're absolutely correct. That's why I cut the cord on cable when the last lockout hit, and I haven't missed it at all.

Until the Detroit Red Wings stop wasting their resources, when, IF THEY WERE EVEN AVERAGE at the elements of free agency and trades, they'd be contending for The Stanley Cup, I have not - and will not - waste my time or money on watching them.

You can talk up the prospects all you want, but the bottom line is that they haven't accomplished anything worthwhile over the last 5 years. And counting. But please, continue telling me how a guy who hasn't even cracked Grand Rapids yet and just learned how to shave will be a Norris winner any day now and will turn everything around. Mmkay...yeah.

So your saying you haven't watched this team play since 2004-2005. Thats pretty much a decade. If this is the case how can you expect anybody now to take any thing you say serioiusly if you haven't even seen the players your talking about play the game.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

So your saying you haven't watched this team play since 2004-2005. Thats pretty much a decade. If this is the case how can you expect anybody now to take any thing you say serioiusly if you haven't even seen the players your talking about play the game.

I'm sure he is talking about the 2012-2013 lockout, not the 2004-2005 lockout.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

You forget this guy:

I am not even joking.

It's all about value. Huskins is a negative value at 800k a year, but Quincey is a negative value at four million a year. That extra 3.2 million a year could go to signing a quality player or just giving it all to Dan Cleary.

 

[SirloinUB]

I am not even joking.

It's all about value. Huskins is a negative value at 800k a year, but Quincey is a negative value at four million a year. That extra 3.2 million a year could go to signing a quality player or just giving it all to Dan Cleary.

Huskin's was a minus player in the ECHL and scored 10 points in 65 games. The difference between Quincey and Huskins is several light years.

 

[probertrules24]

I'm sure he is talking about the 2012-2013 lockout, not the 2004-2005 lockout.

Makes more sense.

 

[TatarTangle]

And why, if you are so upset with the job Holland does, do you continue watching the Red Wings? Their ownership clearly likes the direction he is taking this franchise, they offered him a four year deal.

We don't know if they like the direction he is taking the team but they know he gets the team into the playoffs which means $$$ for them and there isn't anyone out there that can realistically step in and do Holland's job with a running start. Regardless, it's his position until he feels it's time to change.

We are about 2 pieces away from being a legit Cup contender for the next 2-3 seasons and have a ton of assets and cap space to acquire those pieces. Why not let things play out before blowing our brains out.

I hope you aren't that nieve to think Holland will use assests to acquire a player at a position of need. Holland lacks the savviness to pull off something like that. If push came to shove all he'd whip out is "the price was too high"

 

[dtones520]

If anyone said Quincey was our 2nd best defenseman, they were wrong.

Kronwall, Dekeyser, Ericsson and Smith are all better defenseman. That is the problem. One elite defenseman, some 2nd pairing defensemen, and a lot of garbage. No contender has ever went with that kind of defensive unit.

I said his play was the second best out of our defensemen, in my opinion, down the stretch last year. Ericsson was hurt, Dekeyser wasn't as good as he normally is and Smith is still coming into his own. I never said that he is our second best defenseman or we should expect him to be. If he plays like he did from February on for the next two years, then his contract was a good value, as he played as well as any number 4 defenseman in the NHL down the stretch and that is number 4 d-man money in today's NHL.

His improvement in play coincided directly with Babcock splitting him and Smith up and allowing Quincey to play a more aggressive, offensive game. He has good speed and puck movement ability, the problem is from the time he got called up in Detroit Babcock wanted him to use his size and be a big, Brad Staurt-esque defender and that is not who Quincey is. He's played his best hockey when he is allowed to use his speed and jump in the rush throughout his career. Allow him to do that with a stay at home guy like Ericsson or Dekeyser and he won't be that bad.

 

[jkutswings]

I'm sure he is talking about the 2012-2013 lockout, not the 2004-2005 lockout.

Yes, 2012-2013. The back-to-back punishings by the Sharks were rough, but the lack of action after losing to Nashville put me to the edge, and the lockout was the final straw.

 

[Crymson]

Holland has the unbelievable gall to extend Cleary, who is in severe decline, extremely fragile, and performed the worst of any player on the team last season, to an extension whilst telling Alfredsson, a future hall-of-famer who co-led the team in points last season while providing vital leadership, that he should not return unless he's absolutely sure he can remain healthy. That is a disgrace in every sense of the word. Utterly ridiculous.

This organization is a train wreck, and that starts with our utterly foolish general manager.

 

[ap3x]

Welcome to Holland.