Player Discussion: Hickey

[wingnutks]

It's not Leddy's fault Snow sees him as a #1 bonafide top pairing defenseman. I'm just saying who cares about Hickey playing as a #5 instead of a #6. I guess the small things in life bring people satisfaction.

You do realize that the #1 goal of a hockey TEAM is to have every single player playing above their expectations? This is usually how you win. You cant have 6 #1 dmen, or 4 #1 centers. But if all of your players are "over performing" your likely hood of being a good team is pretty high. I.E. See the Golden Knights. Also, the last few Penguins teams did not have a "stellar" defensive squad, but almost all of their dman ended up playing at a higher level than they were expected to.
Now you can always cut costs and get a super cheap #6 dman like Mayfield, and spend the savings elsewhere, and deal with that fact that he will be a worse #6... that is up to the team. But to say that Hickey has had a disappointing season, or is remotely the reason the Isles are were they are is just wrong.

Lastly, you mock the idea of discussing the play provided by a bottom pair Dman while you yourself are spending quite a bit of time discussing the play provided by a bottom pair Dman.

 

[doublechili]

We’ve got bigger fish to fry.

Are you saying therefore that Hickey is a Small Fry?

 

[BelovedIsles]

Are you saying therefore that Hickey is a Small Fry?

With a big heart.

 

[beach]

You do realize that the #1 goal of a hockey TEAM is to have every single player playing above their expectations? This is usually how you win. You cant have 6 #1 dmen, or 4 #1 centers. But if all of your players are "over performing" your likely hood of being a good team is pretty high. I.E. See the Golden Knights. Also, the last few Penguins teams did not have a "stellar" defensive squad, but almost all of their dman ended up playing at a higher level than they were expected to.
Now you can always cut costs and get a super cheap #6 dman like Mayfield, and spend the savings elsewhere, and deal with that fact that he will be a worse #6... that is up to the team. But to say that Hickey has had a disappointing season, or is remotely the reason the Isles are were they are is just wrong.

Lastly, you mock the idea of discussing the play provided by a bottom pair Dman while you yourself are spending quite a bit of time discussing the play provided by a bottom pair Dman.

Mic drop...

 

[YearlyLottery]

You do realize that the #1 goal of a hockey TEAM is to have every single player playing above their expectations? This is usually how you win. You cant have 6 #1 dmen, or 4 #1 centers. But if all of your players are "over performing" your likely hood of being a good team is pretty high. I.E. See the Golden Knights. Also, the last few Penguins teams did not have a "stellar" defensive squad, but almost all of their dman ended up playing at a higher level than they were expected to.
Now you can always cut costs and get a super cheap #6 dman like Mayfield, and spend the savings elsewhere, and deal with that fact that he will be a worse #6... that is up to the team. But to say that Hickey has had a disappointing season, or is remotely the reason the Isles are were they are is just wrong.

Lastly, you mock the idea of discussing the play provided by a bottom pair Dman while you yourself are spending quite a bit of time discussing the play provided by a bottom pair Dman.

Leddy is a second pairing defenseman. Don't expect him to play like a first pairing defenseman. That's ignorant. I also never said Hickey had a bad season, just that it is funny you are glorifying a player for playing like a #5 when he is a #6.

Pretty sure the Penguins didn't expect their second pairing defenseman to become a #1 defenseman come playoff time. Probably just you and Snow I guess.

 

[wingnutks]

Leddy is a second pairing defenseman. Don't expect him to play like a first pairing defenseman. That's ignorant. I also never said Hickey had a bad season, just that it is funny you are glorifying a player for playing like a #5 when he is a #6.

Pretty sure the Penguins didn't expect their second pairing defenseman to become a #1 defenseman come playoff time. Probably just you and Snow I guess.

Almost everything you just typed is arguing against things I have never said.

I literally just spent numerous replies telling you that I do not think Leddy is a #1 Dman and YOU are telling ME that I shouldn't have expected him to play like a #1 dman? So WTF are you talking about?
Is me "glorifying" a #6 Dman for playing like a #5 Dman more or less funny than you spending your time crucifying a #6 Dman for playing like a #7?
I have no idea what the Pens were thinking, however I didnt expect them to play that well and never said I did. However it happened, and was a huge reason they won their cups, which is why I used it as an example. So again, WTF are you talking about?

 

[YearlyLottery]

Almost everything you just typed is arguing against things I have never said.

I literally just spent numerous replies telling you that I do not think Leddy is a #1 Dman and YOU are telling ME that I shouldn't have expected him to play like a #1 dman? So WTF are you talking about?
Is me "glorifying" a #6 Dman for playing like a #5 Dman more or less funny than you spending your time crucifying a #6 Dman for playing like a #7?
I have no idea what the Pens were thinking, however I didnt expect them to play that well and never said I did. However it happened, and was a huge reason they won their cups, which is why I used it as an example. So again, WTF are you talking about?

You said that players need to play ABOVE their expectation levels in order for teams to succeed. That is true in some aspects but you are contradicting yourself regarding Leddy. Leddy is a second pairing defenseman, in order to play above expectations he needs to play as a high end #3 (which he never will be) or as a top pairing defenseman which we both agree he is not.

Leddy is a second pairing defenseman, he will go through phases like any other defenseman where he will have bad year (or even terrible like this one) and very good one's like he has had for us. He is not a PP QB and is not a top pairing defenseman like this organization is making him out to be. He is going to look worse when he is playing against talent that he should not be playing against.

That's all I'm saying. I personally did not think it was hard to comprehend. The way you word your posts makes it seem as if you believe Hickey is even close to the level that Leddy is on which we all know is not true. You probably don't need to bring Leddy up to prove your point that Hickey had a good season. I originally brought Leddy up showing just how many turnovers Hickey has had in the playoffs compared to our two top guys (Leddy and Boychuk) which are quite a bit more considering they made Cup runs and Hickey made first round exits.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Mayfield is your next guy

I do not like him either, but he is already signed. Hickey fails the eye test on a nightly basis, he passes better to the guys in the other color uniform in our end than anyone on the team.
BTW-we need to get better!

 

[Glory Days]

Surprised to see Pulock give so much credit to Hickey considering Hickey never passed him the puck.

 

[wingnutks]

You said that players need to play ABOVE their expectation levels in order for teams to succeed. That is true in some aspects but you are contradicting yourself regarding Leddy. Leddy is a second pairing defenseman, in order to play above expectations he needs to play as a high end #3 (which he never will be) or as a top pairing defenseman which we both agree he is not.

Leddy is a second pairing defenseman, he will go through phases like any other defenseman where he will have bad year (or even terrible like this one) and very good one's like he has had for us. He is not a PP QB and is not a top pairing defenseman like this organization is making him out to be. He is going to look worse when he is playing against talent that he should not be playing against.

That's all I'm saying. I personally did not think it was hard to comprehend. The way you word your posts makes it seem as if you believe Hickey is even close to the level that Leddy is on which we all know is not true. You probably don't need to bring Leddy up to prove your point that Hickey had a good season. I originally brought Leddy up showing just how many turnovers Hickey has had in the playoffs compared to our two top guys (Leddy and Boychuk) which are quite a bit more considering they made Cup runs and Hickey made first round exits.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I do not like him either, but he is already signed. Hickey fails the eye test on a nightly basis, he passes better to the guys in the other color uniform in our end than anyone on the team.
BTW-we need to get better!

IMO, Hickey does not fail the eye test. The hate for Hickey is mostly confirmation bias, especially for this season. I think Mayfield, if given the right coaching, can be an OK #6 dman, and would do it cheaper than Hickey. Which is fine, you can sacrifice in some areas to add in others. However he is definitely not better than Hickey now, and I dont think he ever will be. But everyone who wants him to replace Hickey will remember every time he knocks someone down...

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

IMO, Hickey does not fail the eye test. The hate for Hickey is mostly confirmation bias, especially for this season. I think Mayfield, if given the right coaching, can be an OK #6 dman, and would do it cheaper than Hickey. Which is fine, you can sacrifice in some areas to add in others. However he is definitely not better than Hickey now, and I dont think he ever will be. But everyone who wants him to replace Hickey will remember every time he knocks someone down...

Hilarious idea. I have watched at least 90% of the games, and the Hick(my special nickname) never fails to screw up. Bad pinches, horrible passes to the other team, stapled to the boards by ANY FORWARD, etc.
If you still see Potvin 2.0, it is fine with me. Our entire D corps has been in over their heads all year, but Hickey looks like a boy among men way too often.

 

[beach]

Hilarious idea. I have watched at least 90% of the games, and the Hick(my special nickname) never fails to screw up. Bad pinches, horrible passes to the other team, stapled to the boards by ANY FORWARD, etc.
If you still see Potvin 2.0, it is fine with me. Our entire D corps has been in over their heads all year, but Hickey looks like a boy among men way too often.

And yet the bad pinches, horrible passes have led to the best +/- on the team and accolades from his partner. Did Hickey refuse to give you an autograph one day?

 

[wingnutks]

Hilarious idea. I have watched at least 90% of the games, and the Hick(my special nickname) never fails to screw up. Bad pinches, horrible passes to the other team, stapled to the boards by ANY FORWARD, etc.
If you still see Potvin 2.0, it is fine with me. Our entire D corps has been in over their heads all year, but Hickey looks like a boy among men way too often.

 

[Palfmeister]

Pretty much every stat you can look up on Thomas Hickey says he had a pretty good season. All I can see at this point is a bunch of people that made up their mind before the season and before they got a good chance to watch this player play and they're too proud to admit they were wrong. It was same thing with Bailey. At even-strength this player had an excellent season with excellent statistics. Pretty much sick and tired of reading posts where people come in here and dismiss every statistic that shows positive results from Thomas Hickey but then make some stupid claim about one play against the devils or their eye test, it's laughable. The results the Thomas Hickey had this season speak for themselves. Plus 20 on the wherethe best defenseman was - 42. Three points less on a season our supposed best defenseman even though he played a lot less games. Advanced statistics that lead the team but you know that one play against the devils and like stuff.

 

[Palfmeister]

Hilarious idea. I have watched at least 90% of the games, and the Hick(my special nickname) never fails to screw up. Bad pinches, horrible passes to the other team, stapled to the boards by ANY FORWARD, etc.
If you still see Potvin 2.0, it is fine with me. Our entire D corps has been in over their heads all year, but Hickey looks like a boy among men way too often.

Guys like you can quietly watch hickey have a great game where he plays 20 minutes of good hockey he gives the puck away one time and that's all you can remember. During the games I literally watch hickey make like seven or eight good plays in a row but then he makes one bad one and everybody starts posting it's kind of silly but but hey if you can ignore all the good things and just see one bad thing you must be an expert on evaluating hockey Talent.

 

[Lek]

Hey...i like Hickey...very good 5-6....adequate in a pinch 4 for a short term. I like his exit interview....strikes me as very intelligent....might make a good coach...Hmmm...lol.

 

[YearlyLottery]

And yet the bad pinches, horrible passes have led to the best +/- on the team and accolades from his partner. Did Hickey refuse to give you an autograph one day?

Wow. All the potential stats you can list and you list +/- to determine how good he is? Guess he is better than Leddy.

 

[Willoc94]

+/- shouldn't be completely dismissed - especially when most of the team are heavy minuses, but here's another. Points Per 60 minutes of even strength ice time seems like a good player production evaluator. Especially when a certain player gets no PP time.

Thomas Hickey is 15th in the entire league among defenseman for this stat (had to qualify it with dmen who have played 20+ games). You can say I'm isolating a stat that favors him but ESP/60 is a pretty universal evaluator that helps level the playing field for players (especially defenseman) who rack up lots of power play points and get top pair ice time.

Furthering my point. Hickey's PPG/60 is on par with Victor Hedman and better than Doughty, Provorov, Subban, Hamilton, Letang, OEL, Suter, Chara, McDonagh....list goes on.

I get the whole "eye test" thing. It's what all hockey fans resort to when they don't have much else to back up their POV. We're on a hockey forum - we're all huge hockey fans. Need to bring more to the table than "eye tests". It's a lazy argument. Yes, Hickey can get bullied of the puck, it happens to all hockey players when they're caught flatfooted. He also has some of the best angling and making the most of his leverage to deliver solid hits on this team. He had at least 5 of the best 10 hits this season.

Furthermore, the guy never scares away from a hit. If you want to say he's a smaller player for a dman, ok, but his size never scares him off from taking a hit to make a play. That's what I value in the dzone and I wish more players on this team valued it.

 

[wingnutks]

+/- shouldn't be completely dismissed - especially when most of the team are heavy minuses, but here's another. Points Per 60 minutes of even strength ice time seems like a good player production evaluator. Especially when a certain player gets no PP time.

Thomas Hickey is 15th in the entire league among defenseman for this stat (had to qualify it with dmen who have played 20+ games). You can say I'm isolating a stat that favors him but ESP/60 is a pretty universal evaluator that helps level the playing field for players (especially defenseman) who rack up lots of power play points and get top pair ice time.

Furthering my point. Hickey's PPG/60 is on par with Victor Hedman and better than Doughty, Provorov, Subban, Hamilton, Letang, OEL, Suter, Chara, McDonagh....list goes on.

I get the whole "eye test" thing. It's what all hockey fans resort to when they don't have much else to back up their POV. We're on a hockey forum - we're all huge hockey fans. Need to bring more to the table than "eye tests". It's a lazy argument. Yes, Hickey can get bullied of the puck, it happens to all hockey players when they're caught flatfooted. He also has some of the best angling and making the most of his leverage to deliver solid hits on this team. He had at least 5 of the best 10 hits this season.

Furthermore, the guy never scares away from a hit. If you want to say he's a smaller player for a dman, ok, but his size never scares him off from taking a hit to make a play. That's what I value in the dzone and I wish more players on this team valued it.

I agree with basically all of this.
For every blatant turnover Hickey has he has 3 or 4 super slick plays to get out of trouble from behind his own goal line.

People state Hickey's turnovers as if its an individual problem lol. Has anyone watch any player from this team play this season?

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

And yet the bad pinches, horrible passes have led to the best +/- on the team and accolades from his partner. Did Hickey refuse to give you an autograph one day?

If I were autograph hunting, why would I go up to the Hick? Tavares, Boychuk, Lee, Barzal, maybe, but I have been on Hickey's case all year. The Kings put him on waivers because he was not good enough, which is still the case.
Accolades from his partner-you should stick to the plus minus argument(despite all the threads here about how misleading the stat can be).
We need to aim higher.
Done with this thread.
Continue building your shrine.

 

[beach]

If I were autograph hunting, why would I go up to the Hick? Tavares, Boychuk, Lee, Barzal, maybe, but I have been on Hickey's case all year. The Kings put him on waivers because he was not good enough, which is still the case.
Accolades from his partner-you should stick to the plus minus argument(despite all the threads here about how misleading the stat can be).
We need to aim higher.
Done with this thread.
Continue building your shrine.

I'm glad you're done with the thread, as we're tired of having to continually try and make a blind man see.

 

[Riseonfire]

Hickey has always been a good Dman for us, posters here like to hate on him because Leddy-Boychuck pairing isnt good enough or some other dumb shit.


Now that said we have mayfield AND Pelech long term, so Hickey is probably on his way out but he was good here.

Someone-Pulock
Leddy-Boychuck
Pelech- Mayfield
Towes

Just really need that someone.....

 

[LI2RVA]

Someone-Pulock
Leddy-Boychuck
Pelech- Mayfield
Towes

Just really need that someone.....[/QUOTE]

OEL would be a really nice fit in the "someone" spot

 

[PROMputt]

Hickey has always been a good Dman for us, posters here like to hate on him because Leddy-Boychuck pairing isnt good enough or some other dumb ****.


Now that said we have mayfield AND Pelech long term, so Hickey is probably on his way out but he was good here.

Someone-Pulock
Leddy-Boychuck
Pelech- Mayfield
Towes

Just really need that someone.....

I say sign Hickey and deHann and Toews starts at the Bridge(call up WHEN the Isles get first injury).
And before someone writes brilliant idea keep the same defense that gave up the leagues most goals, here is my answer:
Pelech, Mayfield and Pulock are all going to get better. deHann has proven he is good enough and the fact the team tanked defensively when he was hurt helps prove my point. Hickey is a fine defensemen and I believe suffers around these boards because everyone wants the prototypical 6'4" stud manning the blue line. And number one- the Islanders need to go out and get a #1 goalie. I don't care how they do it, you build from the the goal out. I still feel Washington will trade one of Grubauer or Holtby and the Islanders better be in on one of them.

 

[bigd]

Wow. All the potential stats you can list and you list +/- to determine how good he is? Guess he is better than Leddy.

He was this season.