Line Combos: Hey HFOil, Help Out Our Pro Scouts! Long Term Wingers For McDavid and Draisaitl

[MessierII]

I miss Lucic. Neal has been useless and we need a net front guy so bad.

 

[iCanada]

Respectfully disagree. You don’t need more players to dig pucks out as PJ & Yamo are highly effective at that already. Or do you want players like Lucic back? Or Kassian back on the top line?

Last I checked McDavid finished so far ahead of the league he’s in a different time zone. Draisaitl was a very comfortable 2nd in points.

Drai doesn’t kill penalties as a first 4 forward option. He hasn’t for 2 years unless it’s a 5 on 3 or he’s out for a critical face off and he gets off as soon as the zone is cleared. Draisaitl is reserved for the post power play shift with McDavid and PJ.

You’ll give the 2 big boys far more help by getting stronger 3rd and 4th lines.

Far far more help that way. The team will play with the lead more often and the Oilers are usually lethal when playing with the lead.

Your spreading out the scoring options as well therefore the checking options by strengthening the bottom 6. Look at how hard it is to contain Tampa and Vegas. They are strong on all lines.

Or if you want to go the Boston Colorado route you load up 29 97 13 into your power line and strengthen your bottom 9.

With a stronger bottom 6 or 9 it helps 97 and 29 way beyond getting them a Maroon Lucic or Kassian.

We’ve a much stronger D. Now the problem is strengthen the bottom 6 or 9.

I think you need to give your potential coach the ability to go Boston Colorado or to go Pittsburg.

I'm not saying you want the Lucic/Maroon/Kassian's. You want the Stone, Saad, Landeskog, Kane, Palmeiri, Hyman, Coleman, Duclair, Bennett's etc.

I agree with you that Pulju is high effective, but I disagree on Yams. I think Yams would be highly effective if his line-mates could be guys like the above that can eat pucks on the boards and create straight-line threats that give him time and space. But instead you really want someone in Yams position to be doing that for Draisaitl or McDavid instead. Ideally, you want atleast 6 guys not named McDavid or Draisaitl who can put up 40 points; if you consider Pulju can do that, you need to procure 5 guys that can. If I am Holland, I am starting with this slate;

X - McDavid (12.5) - Pulju (1.175)
X - Drai (8.5) - X
Holloway / McLeod - X - X
Khaira (1.2) / Holloway (1.25) - Haas (1) / McLeod (0.9) - Archi (1.5)
Turris (1.625)
(30.65)

Nurse (5.6) - Bear (2)
Klef (4.1) - Lars (3.5)
Lags (0.8) / Broberg (0.9) / Jones (0.9) - Bouchard (0.9)
Russell (1.25)
(19.25)

X
Smith (1.5)

Sekera (1.5)
Looch (0.75)

Subtotal of 52.65 Million out of 81.5 million.

Thats 6 spots to fill with 28.85 in cap space (or ~4.81 Million each). Out of the gate you have to dump Kass, Neal, and Koskinen. You don't resign Nuge.

You sign one of Driedger or Merzlinkens for 4.5 M.

I think Koski is probably an easy throw in; you likely could bundle Yams with Koskinen for say Rakell (3.8). Two birds hit with one stone, you get a 40 point guy and get rid of Koski. I'd be looking to unload Kassian on NYR to give them some ability to tango with a guy like Wilson; Say you bundle a Lavoie / Benson / Marody with Kass + Sweetener for Buchnevich (4.5); two birds one stone again, drop kass and get a 40 point guy. Nealer I think you just straight up give Seattle a 1st to unload and be done with it.

You sign Getzlaf for 1yrx3mill
You sign Saad for 6yrsx6mill OR Landeskog for 6yrsx8mill.

At this point you have spent an additional 21.8 to 23.8 million and have something like this with :
X - McDavid - Pulju
Saad/Landy - Drai - Rakell
Holloway - Buchnevich - Getzlaf
Khaira - McLeod - Archi
Haas - Turris

Nurse - Bear
Klef - Lars
Lags - Bouch
Russell

Driegder
Smith

From there, you either throw one of Buchnevich / Getz / Holloway / McLeod with McDavid and call it a day with 5 to 6 million and a 1st to improve the Roster at the deadline, you swing for the fences in the offseason to fill that top 6 LW hole with say a Tyler Bertuzzi, or you go somewhere in-between and sign a stopgap like Palmieri for 3 million and still have 3 million to improve the roster at the deadline.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't think the whole bottom six needs to be replaced like people are saying. Archie, Haas, Chiasson, McLeod. These are decent depth guys.

I know Chiasson takes shit here but if he's good enough to have a spot on a cup winning roster with Ovechkin you can't tell me he isn't good enough to be here. He's not some dude pushing 40.

People expect way too much out of the bottom six because the top six production is reliant on two players imo. Upgrade the top six and the emphasis on bottom six players driving offense lessens.

 

[iCanada]

I don't think the whole bottom six needs to be replaced like people are saying. Archie, Haas, Chiasson, McLeod. These are decent depth guys.

I know Chiasson takes shit here but if he's good enough to have a spot on a cup winning roster with Ovechkin you can't tell me he isn't good enough to be here. He's not some dude pushing 40.

People expect way too much out of the bottom six because the top six production is reliant on two players imo. Upgrade the top six and the emphasis on bottom six players driving offense lessens.

I think we have a solid bottom 3. I think our third line is complete ass though.

And I think our top 6 needs a lot of help. Aside from McDrai and Pulju I think you need to fill every spot.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

It’s not just about fight, Yamo is fighting for pucks out there but he’s half the size of these dmen. It’s just not enough. We need size. Just look at Vegas, they’ve got big boys who are just flying out there, playoff hockey looks like nothing to them, they’re not getting pushed around.

we need to identify those types of players before they’re established and ridiculously expensive. Maroon is the only slight victory we’ve had in that respect and it didn’t last long sadly. Actually Pulju is another and hopefully he stays for a long time, he’s almost perfect.

I’d love a Nick Ritchie, Tuch, someone like that. Pro scouts need to come up big here. Roy in Vegas looks like he could be one of those guys, probably playing behind a few guys in that mold already and might shake loose at some point, I don’t know his contract status but that’s the type we should be looking at.

 

[onetweasy]

The way the league is moving Yamo has a very limited future in this league.

Our 2nd line, or lack there of is why we struggle.

 

[MoontoScott]

I respect Yams as a player--he has tremendous work ethic and courage but the fact is that in the last 26 regular season games he had 1 goal and really --for a top 6 forward-- it just isn't enough production---hope he can dig a little deeper and come up with one in the series.

 

[Joey Moss]

Yamamoto’s struggles this playoffs makes me think it might be worth exploring trade scenarios with him. He is having a hard time with the size and physicality the Jets are playing on him. I know he’s a sophomore so you don’t want to overreact but for the right player you have to consider it.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

The way the league is moving Yamo has a very limited future in this league.

Our 2nd line, or lack there of is why we struggle.

I could see Yamo still having a bright future. There needs to be more balance on his lines though, he can’t be playing with RNH or Kahun. Put a power forward LW with him and Drai and that line could be deadly, Yamo works hard but he just can’t beat some of these dmen, he needs a little breathing room.

 

[iCanada]

It’s not just about fight, Yamo is fighting for pucks out there but he’s half the size of these dmen. It’s just not enough. We need size. Just look at Vegas, they’ve got big boys who are just flying out there, playoff hockey looks like nothing to them, they’re not getting pushed around.

we need to identify those types of players before they’re established and ridiculously expensive. Maroon is the only slight victory we’ve had in that respect and it didn’t last long sadly. Actually Pulju is another and hopefully he stays for a long time, he’s almost perfect.

I’d love a Nick Ritchie, Tuch, someone like that. Pro scouts need to come up big here. Roy in Vegas looks like he could be one of those guys, probably playing behind a few guys in that mold already and might shake loose at some point, I don’t know his contract status but that’s the type we should be looking at.

Exactly.

Ideally you build this team in a way that other teams don't want to turn the game into a rugby match because the thought terrifies them. Make them want to run in gun with us or get the ever loving shit kicked out of them.

With McDrai we're never going to be the Broad Street bullies, but the 80s Oilers are a pretty damn good template. Obviously we'll never have the talent those clubs did because of the salary cap...

But certainly we can be truculent enough that teams really don't want to play rugby on ice with us for 7 games.

 

[MoontoScott]

Yamamoto’s struggles this playoffs makes me think it might be worth exploring trade scenarios with him. He is having a hard time with the size and physicality the Jets are playing on him. I know he’s a sophomore so you don’t want to overreact but for the right player you have to consider it.

I am not sure what the team statistics are (Oilers versus Jets) regarding physical size but in watching the first few games of the series I am reminded somewhat of the World Junior Championships where Team Russia always seems to be bigger than Team Canada (fake birth certificates usually help mind you).

Someone probably has the stats in front of them. Are the Jets really bigger than the Oilers or do they just "play bigger"?

 

[iCanada]

I am not sure what the team statistics are (Oilers versus Jets) regarding physical size but in watching the first few games of the series I am reminded somewhat of the World Junior Championships where Team Russia always seems to be bigger than Team Canada (fake birth certificates usually help mind you).

Someone probably has the stats in front of them. Are the Jets really bigger or do they just "play bigger"?

Certainly their defensive core is bigger. Outside of DeMelo and Morrisey they are all over 6'4.

 

[ujju2]

Still think David Perron is the exact player we're looking for. Sadly that ship has long sailed.

Again, I keep Nuge on Drai's LW. Keep Pulju on McDavid's RW. Then our top priority is a LW for McDavid (Perron is a perfect fit) and a middle-6 RW who can play with Nuge-Drai if Yams can't break out of this sophomore slump next year.

 

[ujju2]

Certainly their defensive core is bigger. Outside of DeMelo and Morrisey they are all over 6'4.

In terms of big defensemen we have Nurse, Larsson, and Kulikov. Our other 3 guys tend to be smaller puck movers. I don't think our overall size on D is that bad. Washington had a similar mix in 2018, for example.

 

[Messrules11]

With Holloway and Lavoie we might have our answers internally.

Lavoie McDavid PJ
Holloway Draisaitl Yamo

The issue for me is lines 3 and 4. They need a complete overhaul.

McLoed at C sure. Archie for another year.
The rest all need to be replaced.

I can agree with this however Lavoie remains a question mark for me. I wouldn’t mind Evander Kane there, guys like Bonino and Kuraly would fill out the bottom 6 nicely

 

[Old Boys Club]

LW1-McDavid-Pulju
LW2-Drai-RW2
LW3-C3-Yamamoto
LW4/Kahun-C4-Archibald

Nurse-RD1
LD1/Klefbom-Bouchard
LD2-Larsson

G1
Smith
Capable G3 incase smith is done

Trade Chips: Broberg, Bear, Lavoie, Benson, 2021-2022 1st round picks, 2022 2nd round pick,

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I am not sure what the team statistics are (Oilers versus Jets) regarding physical size but in watching the first few games of the series I am reminded somewhat of the World Junior Championships where Team Russia always seems to be bigger than Team Canada (fake birth certificates usually help mind you).

Someone probably has the stats in front of them. Are the Jets really bigger than the Oilers or do they just "play bigger"?

According to this site, Jets on average 6'2" and 200 pounds while Oilers average 6'1" and 196 pounds: Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL.

Now if you take out two tall and heavy goalies wonder what that looks like. Jets are clearly bigger down the middle and with their depth of skill players.

 

[Llamamoto]

When (if) the Preds are eliminated, I would look into Forsberg/Arvidsson as top-6 options and Jarnkrok as a fall-back guy.

 

[Paralyzer008]

When (if) the Preds are eliminated, I would look into Forsberg/Arvidsson as top-6 options and Jarnkrok as a fall-back guy.

They probably have no reason to deal him but Tanner Jeannot would be a target for me too.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

I am not sure what the team statistics are (Oilers versus Jets) regarding physical size but in watching the first few games of the series I am reminded somewhat of the World Junior Championships where Team Russia always seems to be bigger than Team Canada (fake birth certificates usually help mind you).

Someone probably has the stats in front of them. Are the Jets really bigger than the Oilers or do they just "play bigger"?

Jets are a bigger team compared to us.

The Jets lone regular forward under 6'0 is Perrault. They have the weight and height advantage built for playoff hockey over us.

Winnipeg Jets at eliteprospects.com

Edmonton Oilers at eliteprospects.com

EDIT: BEL beat me to it.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Exactly.

Ideally you build this team in a way that other teams don't want to turn the game into a rugby match because the thought terrifies them. Make them want to run in gun with us or get the ever loving shit kicked out of them.

With McDrai we're never going to be the Broad Street bullies, but the 80s Oilers are a pretty damn good template. Obviously we'll never have the talent those clubs did because of the salary cap...

But certainly we can be truculent enough that teams really don't want to play rugby on ice with us for 7 games.

I might be missing something in your post/philosophy. I'm not sure making this team physically tougher necessarily makes it better. Chiarelli tried that to some extent. As currently constructed after three GM's and multiple rebuilds this team has a generational player whose in on about 60% of the team's goals. They have a second elite whose sublime skill set straddles him between elite goal scoring winger and power 2C with lesser talent and less consistent results. This team needs bigger skill top six forwards who give this team greater scoring balance to compete with playoff teams. And one addition needs to be a goal scorer with ability to pot 25+ goals who can supplement winger Draisaitl when this team chooses to stack its two best players.

The 80's template foundation was a top six forward group comprised of what became four Hall of Famers rolling out lethal pairings of Gretzky/Kurri and balanced by Messier/Anderson. They smartly complemented this top six firepower with hard edged support players.

Today's game is so different. I think it's less rugby style intimidation (which I don't think is a viable winning formula) and more balanced, bigger skilled top six talent that gives viable options when opposition want to play a trapping, collapse game against McDavid and little viable options for scoring when Draisailt is neutralized too through it. Still been a coin flip series despite McDavid and Draisaitl being shut down. Need more talent around them including a volume shooter/goal scoring option.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

I might be missing something in your post/philosophy. I'm not sure making this team physically tougher necessarily makes it better. Chiarelli tried that to some extent. As currently constructed after three GM this team has a generational player whose in on about 60% of the team's goals. They have a second elite whose sublime skill set straddles him between elite goal scoring winger and power 2C with lesser talent and less consistent results. This team needs bigger skill top six forwards who give this team greater scoring balance to compete with playoff team. And one addition needs to be a goal scorer with ability to pot 25+ goals who can supplement winger Draisaitl when this team chooses to stack its two best players.

The 80's template foundation was a top six forward group comprised of what became four Hall of Famers rolling out lethal pairings of Gretzky/Kurri and balanced by Messier/Anderson. They smartly complemented this top six firepower with hard edged support players.

Today's game is so different. I think it's less rugby style intimidation (which I don't think is a viable winning formula) and more balanced, bigger skilled top six talent that gives viable options when opposition want to play a trapping, collapse game against McDavid and little viable options for scoring when Draisailt is neutralized too through it. Still been a coin flip series despite McDavid and Draisaitl being shut down. Need more talent around them including a volume shooter/goal scoring option.

I think you need a similar complexion to the team though, but you’re right it’s different these days. I want more size in the lineup but they can’t be goons, they need size and speed or it won’t work, ideally they have some good hands too.

I want some big bodies who can carry the puck into the zone and shrug off defenders, I want guys who push through and get on loose pucks around the net.

 

[Gordy Elbows]

NO need to buy drugs ...just listen to few ideas here....mind bending.
Kevin Labanc does have the brain and the wheels and can pass fairly well....not great defensively and is somewhat inconsistent but might work for a couple of years ...he is one of the two styles of players that we know can work with McDavid....not an ideal choice..... is slightly overpaid for what he brings....
What do you think San Jose would want for him...likely futures but how much?

I'm lousy at guessing the trade values, etc but would think we could do it for a 2nd pick and a prospect. SJ has got to be looking at some form of rebuild now and picks/prospects should be tempting.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

According to this site, Jets on average 6'2" and 200 pounds while Oilers average 6'1" and 196 pounds: Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL.

Now if you take out two tall and heavy goalies wonder what that looks like. Jets are clearly bigger down the middle and with their depth of skill players.

Our problem is that many of our smaller players aren't high skill guys and that many of our bigger bodies skate in quicksand or have taken up pacifism.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think you need a similar complexion to the team though, but you’re right it’s different these days. I want more size in the lineup but they can’t be goons, they need size and speed or it won’t work, ideally they have some good hands too.

I want some big bodies who can carry the puck into the zone and shrug off defenders, I want guys who push through and get on loose pucks around the net.

Similar complexion to which team (80s Oilers)? If that's what you mean for sure. They are the Apex bar for historic NHL offensive production. The underlaying principle is the clear need is to build out quality top six forward depth which has been an issue forever. In doing so it needs to be with bigger players who can and do play in hard areas. I like Yamamoto's compete and moto but perfect world I'd like to have a bigger, more skilled top six group that enables Yamamoto to move into an energy 3W role with some time to grow into a prospective 2W with a bit more time.

Too much perimeter, finesse play and lack of quality depth in this team's current composition. Holland's tried to work around to give this team some skill with cheap free agent signings like Reider, Kahun, and Ennis. With some cap money opening up and expansion, I think we'll begin to see Holland make this team bigger, adding quality scoring option(s), and better built for playoff hockey. Their decision on defense to add Kulikov and play 4K in the playoffs I think hint at Holland and Tippett know this team must be bigger and with greater compete.