Here's why Quenneville still sux
- Thread starter Panzerspitze
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crazyhawk
Registered User
Hmmmm ... of course all fans want their team to win every year which simply is impossible.
Three wins within 6 years is very, very rare. Sure keep on wanting our team to win but at the same
time have some satisfaction with the near impossible feat this team has accomplished,
****, I have followed the Hawks since I was a 9 year old lad in 1969 and had to wait 49 years for a cup.
I know there a quite a few on this board with a similar length of time as a fan and though I can only speak for myself .. I am completely satisfied as a fan of the Blackhawks. Do I want to see another win?
Sure, but I'm not a starving man outside the feast any longer.
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
- 25,162
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Meh, Q's issues this season remain the same they've always been:
1) Roster management
2) PP
He's been shit at both his entire time here. Nobody should be surprised.
The bigger issue is that he seems either stubbornly unwilling or simply unable to evolve his system for the modern NHL. The D still aren't given a green light to skate the puck out of the Dzone or into the Ozone, the forwards are still deferring to point shots at 5v5 instead of trying to make plays (because trying to make a play is risky, whereas a point shot is the 'safe' play) when most goals are scored from the 'key', he's strangling offense out of an offensively talented team.
The shots surrendered against aren't entirely his fault. Most reasonable people that looked at this D on paper acknowledged it was among the worst in the league. People were just crossing their fingers they would improve over time. So it's not surprising the Blackhawks are toward the bottom of the league in attempts, shots, and chances against. Would a green light to skate the puck out HELP? Yes. Would it fix the team's inability to hold their blue-line? No. Not unless Forsling, Rutta, Kempny and Murphy all get way better at it. I'm not including Seabrook in that list, because I have no hope he will improve.
.....though I'd LOVE to know why Murphy was scratched after putting up a GREAT performance against NSH the night before. Dicking him around isn't going to help him improve. Though I bet he's longing to be playing alongside OEL right about now...
1) Roster management
2) PP
He's been shit at both his entire time here. Nobody should be surprised.
The bigger issue is that he seems either stubbornly unwilling or simply unable to evolve his system for the modern NHL. The D still aren't given a green light to skate the puck out of the Dzone or into the Ozone, the forwards are still deferring to point shots at 5v5 instead of trying to make plays (because trying to make a play is risky, whereas a point shot is the 'safe' play) when most goals are scored from the 'key', he's strangling offense out of an offensively talented team.
The shots surrendered against aren't entirely his fault. Most reasonable people that looked at this D on paper acknowledged it was among the worst in the league. People were just crossing their fingers they would improve over time. So it's not surprising the Blackhawks are toward the bottom of the league in attempts, shots, and chances against. Would a green light to skate the puck out HELP? Yes. Would it fix the team's inability to hold their blue-line? No. Not unless Forsling, Rutta, Kempny and Murphy all get way better at it. I'm not including Seabrook in that list, because I have no hope he will improve.
.....though I'd LOVE to know why Murphy was scratched after putting up a GREAT performance against NSH the night before. Dicking him around isn't going to help him improve. Though I bet he's longing to be playing alongside OEL right about now...
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2nd 7 should be nowhere near the PP..
D'Cat should be at LW for 1 toner as they did With Panarin ladt season.. But Q goona Q...
D'Cat should be at LW for 1 toner as they did With Panarin ladt season.. But Q goona Q...
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
- 25,162
- 9,418
The decision to keep Wingels and Bouma on the roster feels like one of those times that Stan and Q are united in their absolute wrongness.
Somewhere along the line they decided the Blackhawks lost to Nashville because of lack of 'toughness' instead of lack of speed, skill, and efficient transition from the back-end.
So until they get over that bit of dementia, we're probably stuck with the plugs.
Somewhere along the line they decided the Blackhawks lost to Nashville because of lack of 'toughness' instead of lack of speed, skill, and efficient transition from the back-end.
So until they get over that bit of dementia, we're probably stuck with the plugs.
It is not the coach ...nor can it be any of the sucky players ....Not the best writers ...who in shame are not asking Q the tough questions ...no,there can be only 1 person who has stood out like a glowing example of supreme competence in his job (compared to everyone else in the Hawks orbit ,so far)..and this is of couse ADAM BURISH whose analytical skills on the video he shows are so bang on that you wonder if tgey fire Q ,maybe he should be offered interim coach ...he shows examples of why things are failing and also things that work including exciting by the opposition. ..the impression is that he has a great grasp of the game and alk the strategies and x's and o's... He is better at this than Konroyd who now is covering for EDZO as color analyst with Foley on the pkay by pkay
.But Burish is very impressive in his knowledge of what is goid gnon on the ice ...I am surprised...but often the guys who never had much skill are better students of the game .
.But Burish is very impressive in his knowledge of what is goid gnon on the ice ...I am surprised...but often the guys who never had much skill are better students of the game .
ColdSteel2
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2010
- 34,759
- 3,578
jls24
Registered User
- Apr 30, 2013
- 1,309
- 1,162
Honestly put a mustache on the chimp and it's pretty spot on to what we're already watching.
i too is an old timer but i will disagree with you on one point. am i starving for another cup, i am ravenous for one. i look at this team and all i can see is wasted decisions, wasted roster moves and worst a coach who over plays his players to what they are now, a shell of what they were once.
BobbyJet
watch the game, everything else is noise
As an outside unbiased hockey fan, I always thought Q was a middling mediocre coach. Then he went to Chicago and fast forward to now national announcers praise him as some sort of genius, a HOF coach, the job he'd done in CHI etc. but I don't think coaches just suddenly become "good".
Methinks he just sort of game managed (to steal a NFL phrase) great rosters put forth by management and sort of let them do their things, to the extent a coach can
Again, I'm an unbiased non Blackhakws fan so feel free to tear my opinion to shreds
Don't try to tell stats watchers and most Blackhawk fans though. You're wasting your time.
BobbyJet
watch the game, everything else is noise
The reality of it all is that Q coaches for himself, not the team. He doesn't coach looking to the playoffs at all and never has. Instead, he remains short-sighted, wearing out his top players in the RS and playing vets ahead of youngsters who should be the future of the club. Folks that are ignorant to that look at his impressive longevity and automatically mention his name with greats like Arbor, Bowman and Irving. It's a bad joke.
The real reason the Hawks are in this s mess is tge Country Club Q coddling of his sacred core vets that he has trusted to perform in the past. .But fat contracts,Stan's NMC addiction, and a sense of done that "we are entitled stars" have made the core vets lazy and certainly not hungry enough to put in the 60 minute game sweat necessary to be excellent ...so we get from them a few spurt shifts of former glory if we are lucky...more often coasting and losing the battles and puck races. ..no energy..no compete..no leadership to inspire confidence in the kids and so no production or prevention competence ..it is really all about the Country Club and the fat-cat core just not doing it rather than blaming the newbies..Tgey bring back Saad and he starts off in an energetic blaze of glory and production..but then the core vet Country Club atmosphere allowed by Q infects him too and he and his six million snacjeroos succumb to the temptation to slack for long periods of a game
.The core trusted vets simply will not work hard enough or practice enough (cause Q hives them so much rest amd optional practices...The kids and newbies need extra practice but seeing the core leaders get time off by Q ..well it is not inspiring them ...Rather it increases the clique mentality of Q's vets who slack and make mistakes but Q has no patience when kids or newbies make mistakes .Instead of Q working to help the kids and newbies in practices with the core vet leaders there to also help them ..tjis all does not hapoen. .Because Q is ensconced in his Country Club entitlement system and both he and his core vets when they look in the mirror they are admiring their own "greatness" instead of buckling down and admitting they must WORK and PLAY harder than ever before to win and to inspire tge support cast ..I know ..you say ..."but Stan Gabe these core vets the big contracts and NMC'S. ..so how can you blame Q?The point is ...you blame Q precisely because with big money cones big responsibility and Q must MOTIVATE the fat cat vets to live up to THAT high standard..It means fostering an atmosphere of not tolerating slackers ...shift by shift...period by period..game by game...week by week ..it means Leaving the Country Club and kicking slacker vets who do not want to engage a much anymore in their but ts but still they finally realize how much slacking they care committing...no "coadtibg" should be tolerated. If tge fat cats still will not listen ..the a new Drill Instructor should be brought in who will not tolerate slack habits and performance ..and if that too faiks..then the vets have to be sent out a here ..sure everyone can have sone bad games ..and every team some bad games...but these should only be about 20% of the grind ...Not so many meh amd poor efforts in games such as the try hard part is only 5/60 or 15/60 in top effort ..and this is the NHL ...you cannot allow experienced core vets to pass, shoot and check so poorly ...let alone the missing hustle .
The kids and newbies we expect to have ups and downs ....God games /bad games ...goid shifts/not so good shifts ..but the core vets ducking for 7-10 games I a row?Conniff it..this biscuits to the Country Club Q has run....letting his slacker core get away with bad habits and not calling out culprits .They are entitled with the 3 Cups for Q not to shame them for stinky play ..not to. Motivate THEN ...right? SO Q refuses to go there and give his trusted vets core the tough love treatment
IT is this SLACKER COACHING job that allows the core player slackers to get away with sloppy dis-interested play or to use excuse after excuse to justify to themselves that they are performing well enough ...and that they are still "entitled" to admire their images in the mirrors of the cars they are promoting on commercials ...or admirecwhatvthey see I their home mirrors when gazing at their own "star" faces.
It bis the Core that isvthe biggest problem. And the Coach who.let them get away with poir performance far less that what their pay scale suggests .
..Nor can Q blame this on Stan...a HEAD Coach must Coach and this includes motivating and fixing ...not tolerating and let problem issues fester ...SO PITT fired Bylsma who was tolerating his stars under performing
..not effort ing enough and dis-interested no hustle playing ..bring in Sullivan..changes system
..motivates to misdion ..and voila they win a Cups.
So ..tge Q Country Club exercise has run its course..the results recently have been noticeable ...the core vets slacked off ..will not committing a full 60 and a misdion ..will not commit to goid hockey habits like good boasting good shooting..goid checking and good HUSTLE and will nitnorovidevthe goid leadership by example to the kids /newbies who see the stuff the sloppy pampered vets get away with and perhaps try less hardvthemselves so as not to show up these "institutions" ..And do the rebus no vet/kid-newbie 'all forc1" and "ONE Goal" attitude and misdion and team cohesion ...the "confortable" not hungry vets can care notva whit about setting g examples to the next Gen ..
The are complacent in doing less than what it takes. ..excellence whit effort. ..
to succeed in the game ...secure in their "entitlement" honoured position as team "stars" ...they starvonly in how fast they can leave the game to fetbtobthe bank to count the $$$in their accounts ...Q allowed this kind of thinking...this rot to occur. .He gave his trusted core an inch...they took a mile..And this is exactly Country Club Coaching..and as the Master of the Ship
..when it is sinking from the weight of this PREDICTABLE rot,he never adjusted course ,he never made the fixes in attitude ...that he should have been doing .So he allowed them problem to get worse ...Yes there Carex aging realities ..but othervteams's who were successful made adjustments..changed coaches and got their core "stars" to buy-in again ...not to rule the roost ...but rather to re-dedicate to play at at least close to the standards they did in the past ..In Q and the Hawks case ,tjis has not happened ..tge fat -cat core is just counting the money and their pkay keeps von detrioraating abd this rot is even accelerating now ...The fault is 9n Q for letting this hapoen ..for letting his trusted core get away with this slacking effort and p-poor performance it seems now game after game except for a brief sourtbofc5-25 minutes which is not going to be good enough to win most games .It is alk about CORE fail and COACH fail..not really about the support crew...IF tge Core were "starring" per expectation of their pay grade ..then we would have better results ...less longbl9sing streaks. .snd certainly less p-poor games ...But the rotten CORE is producing a putrid stench instead ..and Q mumbles "the offense is good enough "(translation we have talent ) but the execution is " not there "(translation ...the lazy bums are too sloppy and won't check and forgot what compete is and forgot they once had ability had competence to shoot and score to pass properly and to check propetly) .His delusion is that this Core will remember how to. Pkay the game ...to show they still have the talent he says is there ..
But if he believes this pikenofvrubbish,then he,Q must Coach them out of their lethargic and sloppy play and first act like NHL pros again ...a full 60 ...hustle...do not flub passes giving or receiving ...shoot on goal and beat the goalies occasionally but with a lot more frequency than now ...Care again...Q must motivate his Core back to a semblance of expectation level top brass had for them..OF he getsvthevCorevto buy in again then the kids can follow. .If the Core stays in the rotting state,the kids and newbies have no models to supoirt and follow overview battlements ...It is all about CORE and COACH ..then if those 2 items are performing properly , the support guys will take care of business as a natural response to the buy-in atmosphere .If CORE and COACH keep rotting away,then the support cast will never buy in ...they will feel isolated and feel too much pressure .so they too will not be able to play their best .So it is on Q to first fix the problem with his Core performers who are not performing to expectation standard ...then if that gets ford. ..then he can motivate and inspire the kids and newbies into the excellence it takes to win .If he cannot fix his Core to buy-in and perform as they are supposed to ...then it will certainly ly beva doomed season.
.The core trusted vets simply will not work hard enough or practice enough (cause Q hives them so much rest amd optional practices...The kids and newbies need extra practice but seeing the core leaders get time off by Q ..well it is not inspiring them ...Rather it increases the clique mentality of Q's vets who slack and make mistakes but Q has no patience when kids or newbies make mistakes .Instead of Q working to help the kids and newbies in practices with the core vet leaders there to also help them ..tjis all does not hapoen. .Because Q is ensconced in his Country Club entitlement system and both he and his core vets when they look in the mirror they are admiring their own "greatness" instead of buckling down and admitting they must WORK and PLAY harder than ever before to win and to inspire tge support cast ..I know ..you say ..."but Stan Gabe these core vets the big contracts and NMC'S. ..so how can you blame Q?The point is ...you blame Q precisely because with big money cones big responsibility and Q must MOTIVATE the fat cat vets to live up to THAT high standard..It means fostering an atmosphere of not tolerating slackers ...shift by shift...period by period..game by game...week by week ..it means Leaving the Country Club and kicking slacker vets who do not want to engage a much anymore in their but ts but still they finally realize how much slacking they care committing...no "coadtibg" should be tolerated. If tge fat cats still will not listen ..the a new Drill Instructor should be brought in who will not tolerate slack habits and performance ..and if that too faiks..then the vets have to be sent out a here ..sure everyone can have sone bad games ..and every team some bad games...but these should only be about 20% of the grind ...Not so many meh amd poor efforts in games such as the try hard part is only 5/60 or 15/60 in top effort ..and this is the NHL ...you cannot allow experienced core vets to pass, shoot and check so poorly ...let alone the missing hustle .
The kids and newbies we expect to have ups and downs ....God games /bad games ...goid shifts/not so good shifts ..but the core vets ducking for 7-10 games I a row?Conniff it..this biscuits to the Country Club Q has run....letting his slacker core get away with bad habits and not calling out culprits .They are entitled with the 3 Cups for Q not to shame them for stinky play ..not to. Motivate THEN ...right? SO Q refuses to go there and give his trusted vets core the tough love treatment
IT is this SLACKER COACHING job that allows the core player slackers to get away with sloppy dis-interested play or to use excuse after excuse to justify to themselves that they are performing well enough ...and that they are still "entitled" to admire their images in the mirrors of the cars they are promoting on commercials ...or admirecwhatvthey see I their home mirrors when gazing at their own "star" faces.
It bis the Core that isvthe biggest problem. And the Coach who.let them get away with poir performance far less that what their pay scale suggests .
..Nor can Q blame this on Stan...a HEAD Coach must Coach and this includes motivating and fixing ...not tolerating and let problem issues fester ...SO PITT fired Bylsma who was tolerating his stars under performing
..not effort ing enough and dis-interested no hustle playing ..bring in Sullivan..changes system
..motivates to misdion ..and voila they win a Cups.
So ..tge Q Country Club exercise has run its course..the results recently have been noticeable ...the core vets slacked off ..will not committing a full 60 and a misdion ..will not commit to goid hockey habits like good boasting good shooting..goid checking and good HUSTLE and will nitnorovidevthe goid leadership by example to the kids /newbies who see the stuff the sloppy pampered vets get away with and perhaps try less hardvthemselves so as not to show up these "institutions" ..And do the rebus no vet/kid-newbie 'all forc1" and "ONE Goal" attitude and misdion and team cohesion ...the "confortable" not hungry vets can care notva whit about setting g examples to the next Gen ..
The are complacent in doing less than what it takes. ..excellence whit effort. ..
to succeed in the game ...secure in their "entitlement" honoured position as team "stars" ...they starvonly in how fast they can leave the game to fetbtobthe bank to count the $$$in their accounts ...Q allowed this kind of thinking...this rot to occur. .He gave his trusted core an inch...they took a mile..And this is exactly Country Club Coaching..and as the Master of the Ship
..when it is sinking from the weight of this PREDICTABLE rot,he never adjusted course ,he never made the fixes in attitude ...that he should have been doing .So he allowed them problem to get worse ...Yes there Carex aging realities ..but othervteams's who were successful made adjustments..changed coaches and got their core "stars" to buy-in again ...not to rule the roost ...but rather to re-dedicate to play at at least close to the standards they did in the past ..In Q and the Hawks case ,tjis has not happened ..tge fat -cat core is just counting the money and their pkay keeps von detrioraating abd this rot is even accelerating now ...The fault is 9n Q for letting this hapoen ..for letting his trusted core get away with this slacking effort and p-poor performance it seems now game after game except for a brief sourtbofc5-25 minutes which is not going to be good enough to win most games .It is alk about CORE fail and COACH fail..not really about the support crew...IF tge Core were "starring" per expectation of their pay grade ..then we would have better results ...less longbl9sing streaks. .snd certainly less p-poor games ...But the rotten CORE is producing a putrid stench instead ..and Q mumbles "the offense is good enough "(translation we have talent ) but the execution is " not there "(translation ...the lazy bums are too sloppy and won't check and forgot what compete is and forgot they once had ability had competence to shoot and score to pass properly and to check propetly) .His delusion is that this Core will remember how to. Pkay the game ...to show they still have the talent he says is there ..
But if he believes this pikenofvrubbish,then he,Q must Coach them out of their lethargic and sloppy play and first act like NHL pros again ...a full 60 ...hustle...do not flub passes giving or receiving ...shoot on goal and beat the goalies occasionally but with a lot more frequency than now ...Care again...Q must motivate his Core back to a semblance of expectation level top brass had for them..OF he getsvthevCorevto buy in again then the kids can follow. .If the Core stays in the rotting state,the kids and newbies have no models to supoirt and follow overview battlements ...It is all about CORE and COACH ..then if those 2 items are performing properly , the support guys will take care of business as a natural response to the buy-in atmosphere .If CORE and COACH keep rotting away,then the support cast will never buy in ...they will feel isolated and feel too much pressure .so they too will not be able to play their best .So it is on Q to first fix the problem with his Core performers who are not performing to expectation standard ...then if that gets ford. ..then he can motivate and inspire the kids and newbies into the excellence it takes to win .If he cannot fix his Core to buy-in and perform as they are supposed to ...then it will certainly ly beva doomed season.
Panzerspitze
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2010
- 4,958
- 998
MacKinnon was knocking guys down/running guys over last night. Picking up 3 more points to his measly previous total of 5. Did any of the ChiHawks wearing a letter on the jersey knock anybody down, besides not scoring last night? I know #19 was busy getting knocked off the puck or making unforced turnovers. Where's the accountability, from the HC to the supposed "leaders"? In fact, you don't even hear those "stars" talking about turning it on OR turning it around anymore. Quenneville (and his apologists) will just take it out on lowly-paid youngsters or scrubs like #38, #57, #17, #12, #6, #5 et al.
As an outside unbiased hockey fan, I always thought Q was a middling mediocre coach. Then he went to Chicago and fast forward to now national announcers praise him as some sort of genius, a HOF coach, the job he'd done in CHI etc. but I don't think coaches just suddenly become "good".
Methinks he just sort of game managed (to steal a NFL phrase) great rosters put forth by management and sort of let them do their things, to the extent a coach can
Again, I'm an unbiased non Blackhakws fan so feel free to tear my opinion to shreds
Bingo...
LordKOTL
Abuse of Officials
You just won the thread.
I expected the D to be bad, and it hasn't disappointed.
I expected a little more from Crawford vs. last season, and he upped the ante thus far. Forsberg hasn't been *that* bad. Ergo I think the D and G are a wash unto themselves. The disappointment is up front. After 2 games the O has completely dissipated from the top-end players.
That's not absolving the D. Seabs and Keith have been congealed buttsweat back there and need to start playing like letter-wearers, but there's no reason why it should take 5GA against Forsberg and a goalie pull for the O to give a crap.
Right now I think it starts and ends with the core. they look about as interested as a high school student attending an economics lecture from Ben Stein.
coolhand
Registered User
Well everybody let's remember this. Q has no control over the cap issues this team has faced. The retooling after 2010 was due to Tallon. Thought he did load the roster with great talent, they couldn't afford to keep everyone. 2 years later they're back and almost go back to back. That's not so bad.
This team though now is getting too old with the core who are all locked into big long term deals, so he's stuck. Unless Bowman can move some salary and get some young talent we have what we have and I'm not sure even a in his prime Scotty Bowman could do much better.
This team though now is getting too old with the core who are all locked into big long term deals, so he's stuck. Unless Bowman can move some salary and get some young talent we have what we have and I'm not sure even a in his prime Scotty Bowman could do much better.
LordKOTL
Abuse of Officials
Great coaches can get results with what they have by playing to the team's strengths.
Q hasn't been doing that, he's been playing to the 2010/2013 teams' strengths, not the 2018 strengths.
As for Scotty...I'd agree if Scotty had a long tenure like Q. If Scotty came in cold right now you'd see a vast improvement (especially if he'd be willing to bust some heads for under performing).
Honestly, at this point someone who's not a completely bad coach (i.e. not Kompon). I think the best coach would be someone completely new that can manage the star egos--a coach that's not afraid to demote the core from positions they are ill-suited for (assuming someone younger can do it better--like Keith on the PP).
Think about it like last game: In spite of a bad game by Forsberg it's not like the guys in front of him were any better. Swap in Crawford and suddenly they decide to show up. Get a coach who's a new voice to shake things up and you will likely see players do better--especially if their cushy slots are on the line.
ref to the coach input, well i will disagree with you. any good good org will look to the coach input and wishes. that will be taken a big consideration.
2nd some of the biggest failure in the salary signing is in Seabs. contract. which was all on SB.
coolhand
Registered User
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
Apparently Q stormed off the ice today:
I guess he finally sees what all our eyes have been seeing the past couple weeks. Tough to look at.
I guess he finally sees what all our eyes have been seeing the past couple weeks. Tough to look at.
LordKOTL
Abuse of Officials
Ya know...You gotta think the braintrust of the Blackhawks does indeed eclipse all of us here in the realm of the great unwashed, but I gotta really wonder if this is the 1st time Q *really* saw this in spite of us seeing it for awhile, or if he's been toeing the party line and just broke.
BobbyJet
watch the game, everything else is noise
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