Injury Report: Henrik Lundqvist - Vascular Injury, Out At Least Three Weeks

[haveandare]

A backup of Cam's quality is almost certainly worth more to this team that he would be as a piece of a trade.

He's the perfect backup for Hank, and he's obviously willing to continue to be in that situation for another year. They should keep him as long as he's willing to play second fiddle. At some point, he'll want more, and that's totally understandable. Until then, keep him and push for the cup with the knowledge that your elite goalie has an excellent backup.

Honestly, I'd turn down a late 1st, early second for him. They essentially got 3 first rounders in Hayes, Buch and Duclair without using a first round pick on any of them. I'm not saying they don't need firsts of course, they just happened to luck out the past few years. They shouldn't be moving them like that anymore, but I wouldn't lose the peace of mind of a backup like Cam to get a draft pick right now.

 

[Riche16]

Backup goalies have almost zero trade value, even if he plays well for a month that won't change it. Plus we won't trade our good backup goalie if we have nobody ready to take his spot, that would be a disaster going into the playoffs without a capable backup.

Just because he's Hank's backup, doesn't make him a "backup" if you get my meaning.

He's a starter without a starting job at this point. He won't be on this team past next yr. in my opinion and wherever he goes it won't be as a backup.

 

[Synergy27]

Honestly, I'd turn down a late 1st, early second for him. They essentially got 3 first rounders in Hayes, Buch and Duclair without using a first round pick on any of them. I'm not saying they don't need firsts of course, they just happened to luck out the past few years. They shouldn't be moving them like that anymore, but I wouldn't lose the peace of mind of a backup like Cam to get a draft pick right now.

I understand your reasoning, but turning down a premium pick like that would be a major mistake in my opinion. The three prospects you mentioned certainly have softened the blow sustained after trading all of these picks recently, but they in no way devalue a future high pick.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Just because he's Hank's backup, doesn't make him a "backup" if you get my meaning.

He's a starter without a starting job at this point. He won't be on this team past next yr. in my opinion and wherever he goes it won't be as a backup.

I'd argue that in general, goalies have bad trade value though. If Minnesota can go out and get a guy like Scrivens for cheap, and he's able to hold the fort, why would they spend a lot for a slightly better goalie?

 

[Synergy27]

I'd argue that in general, goalies have bad trade value though. If Minnesota can go out and get a guy like Scrivens for cheap, and he's able to hold the fort, why would they spend a lot for a slightly better goalie?

Random, journeyman/backup goalies have bad trade value. But unless you're of the opinion that the Devils were insane for giving up what they did for Schneider, which maybe they are, there is certainly a market for legit starters who are blocked.

 

[haveandare]

I understand your reasoning, but turning down a premium pick like that would be a major mistake in my opinion. The three prospects you mentioned certainly have softened the blow sustained after trading all of these picks recently, but they in no way devalue a future high pick.

Eh, I kind of disagree.

I think of it this way: A late first has a value in a vacuum, let's call it 0 as a baseline. The Rangers traded a slew of them in the past, so the value of one of those picks to them is increased, to something like +3. Two of their third rounders start to develop in ways that suggest they could have been late firsts themselves. Some of the adjusted value of those picks to NYR is gone because they aren't in as desperate need of prospects with first round upside as they were earlier. Now the value is +1 let's say. Then, Chicago's first rounder doesn't sign, and goes to the Rangers for nothing but money, essentially another first round player. Now the value of future late firsts is back to the baseline it started at.

So, I think those guys do "devalue" a future high pick, but only because the lack of them had inflated the value of such picks to NYR in the first place.

Teams need to determine where they are on the balance between winning now and being set to be competitive for the future. With all the work they've put into this current lineup, all the value they've invested in guys like Nash and MSL, plus quite a few of their own picks in the form of roster players, the Rangers need to be heavily invested in the immediate future. I don't think any team should ever totally prioritize now over the future, but the Rangers are probably about as close to that as any team should be.

The pick would be nice, but it's undoubtedly a 2-3 year investment. Say Hank is hurt now, or gets hurt in the future and Cam is gone. Most of the work they put into the lineup is then wasted. You can't win with a C level goalie. I'd argue no singular injury hurts a team more than a starter going down when a team doesn't have a good backup. Losing Cam for assets, then spending other assets to get another downgraded backup would eat into the gain in a way that might not even make the trade worthwhile.

A mid first? An early first for Cam+? That's a whole different ballgame IMO. But, I wouldn't move him for a late first.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I understand your reasoning, but turning down a premium pick like that would be a major mistake in my opinion. The three prospects you mentioned certainly have softened the blow sustained after trading all of these picks recently, but they in no way devalue a future high pick.

I agree - teams that have sustained success draft well in the first round AND find the occasional good player in the second round or later.

 

[RGY]

I'm not as concerned about Henrik as some here. He played in the Florida game and was good. Unless he was shaken up from the collision with Bolland. But even then he seemed fine. Its precautionary rest imo. Nashville is going to be a tough game. Talbot serviced us well against Boston

 

[haveandare]

I'm not as concerned about Henrik as some here. He played in the Florida game and was good. Unless he was shaken up from the collision with Bolland. But even then he seemed fine. Its precautionary rest imo. Nashville is going to be a tough game. Talbot serviced us well against Boston

I'm worried a bit because he didn't dress. I think a totally precautionary night off would keep him in pads.

 

[RGY]

I'm worried a bit because he didn't dress. I think a totally precautionary night off would keep him in pads.

He has played a lot lately. Its not the worst thing to have him just stay home. I'll be worried when news comes out that it is worse than day-to-day

 

[haveandare]

He has played a lot lately. Its not the worst thing to have him just stay home. I'll be worried when news comes out that it is worse than day-to-day

True. Just seems like an odd risk to take if it's an issue of someone having a chill night at home or having a night off at the game. It's a big difference for sure, but is it worth the risk of Cam getting lit up or getting hurt or something and putting in a totally untested player? Neither situation is super likely, but it's an important two points for grabs against a very good team.

Anyway, I'm hoping you're right and it's just a short term thing.

 

[Khelvan]

I agree with the posters above who state that Talbot's value to the Rangers is higher than the return he'd bring in a trade, even given ideal top value. Goaltenders just don't bring as much in return value as they probably should. Even if Cam leaves for greener pastures in the near future, he's worth keeping around until then for just such a scenario as this.

Hopefully Lundqvist's injury isn't severe, but even if it is, as long as he's back for the playoffs I'm extremely happy that Talbot is here as the backup.

 

[Synergy27]

The pick would be nice, but it's undoubtedly a 2-3 year investment. Say Hank is hurt now, or gets hurt in the future and Cam is gone. Most of the work they put into the lineup is then wasted. You can't win with a C level goalie. I'd argue no singular injury hurts a team more than a starter going down when a team doesn't have a good backup. Losing Cam for assets, then spending other assets to get another downgraded backup would eat into the gain in a way that might not even make the trade worthwhile.

I guess the way that I look at it is, even with a backup as good as Talbot, if Henrik goes down, the Rangers are just not going to win the Cup. If you agree with that, then I think you have to agree that trading Talbot for a first, even a late one, is a good idea.

If you don't agree with that, i.e., you think that Talbot can adequately fill in for a long-term (playoffs included) injury to Lundqvist, which I honestly believe isn't a completely outlandish thought, then you might not pull the trigger.

That said, I'm not sure if any teams that will be in possession of a late first have an immediate goaltending need, so this might all be moot anyway.

One thing we can definitely agree on, particularly in this thread, is that we hope Henrik isn't going to be out much longer.

 

[haveandare]

I guess the way that I look at it is, even with a backup as good as Talbot, if Henrik goes down, the Rangers are just not going to win the Cup. If you agree with that, then I think you have to agree that trading Talbot for a first, even a late one, is a good idea.

If you don't agree with that, i.e., you think that Talbot can adequately fill in for a long-term (playoffs included) injury to Lundqvist, which I honestly believe isn't a completely outlandish thought, then you might not pull the trigger.

That said, I'm not sure if any teams that will be in possession of a late first have an immediate goaltending need, so this might all be moot anyway.

One thing we can definitely agree on, particularly in this thread, is that we hope Henrik isn't going to be out much longer.

That's a really great point. I think that Cam honestly could fill in for a long-term injury if it were necessary, though I obviously hope to god that it won't ever be. It'd be a drop off no doubt, but not as huge a drop off as almost any other team would experience if their starter were unavailable.

 

[nyr2k2]

Just because he's Hank's backup, doesn't make him a "backup" if you get my meaning.

He's a starter without a starting job at this point. He won't be on this team past next yr. in my opinion and wherever he goes it won't be as a backup.

Well, until he's more than a backup, he's a backup. He hasn't proven that he's capable of succeeding as a starting goaltender in the NHL. There's a significant difference between playing well for 15-20 games and playing well for 60+. I mean I'm pretty confident that he could succeed as a starter, but it seems unlikely to me that anyone would view him as a starter right off the bat. I could see someone bringing him in to compete for a job, but that's about it. Isn't that why he decided to sign on here for another year? Most of us assumed he'd be gone next year, but then the reality set in that there's not a huge market for guys like him at the moment.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Random, journeyman/backup goalies have bad trade value. But unless you're of the opinion that the Devils were insane for giving up what they did for Schneider, which maybe they are, there is certainly a market for legit starters who are blocked.

Fair point. Schneider got good value. As did Miller.

 

[nyr2k2]

Even with Schneider, though, he was a guy that played about 100 NHL games and 10 more in the playoffs at the time when he was traded. Talbot has a third of that experience and less in the playoffs, while being a year or two older than Schneider was when he was dealt.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

True. Just seems like an odd risk to take if it's an issue of someone having a chill night at home or having a night off at the game. It's a big difference for sure, but is it worth the risk of Cam getting lit up or getting hurt or something and putting in a totally untested player? Neither situation is super likely, but it's an important two points for grabs against a very good team.

Anyway, I'm hoping you're right and it's just a short term thing.

Regardless of who the backup was last night Talbot was going to play 60 minutes, unless he got hurt during the game--then, what happens if Lundqvist comes in and hurts his neck even more trying to make a save? Or hurts something else because his neck is stiff and he compensates by positioning himself differently?

The organization did the right thing.

 

[CHGoalie27]

What the **** is all this **** about blood clots??

Anyone that thinks we make it past round one without the best goalie on the planet...

 

[nevesis]

Ok...so I want to post this first as a warning. Keep in mind, none of the information is confirmed by the organization, and is at this point here purely for discussion

However, here it goes...

A source on twitter claims his friends Dad is the limo driver for Dolan and overheard him saying the issue with Lundqvist has to do with an injury to his carotid artery.

The reason I find this interesting is that, the puck hit him directly on the left carotid artery. When I did some further research on blunt force trauma to the carotid artery, I found that:

Carotid artery injuries caused by blunt trauma often cause thrombosis and delayed neurologic deficits

Thrombosis for those who don't know is a blood clot. These can develop after a few days of the original injury, and can be very dangerous.

It has been officially reported that Hank was having headaches right after the injury, and had some more during the Steiner event which was the night before the Boston game he was scheduled to play. This could be related to the delayed neurologic deficits mentioned above.

This photo below (posted on Instagram was from earlier yesterday (before the Boston game) the caption reads as follows:

This guy's awesome, took the time to take a pic with a cold utility worker working outside in the elements while visiting doctors about his injury

If this injury was related to just being sore, or something benign I doubt he would be visiting the Dr's outside of the ones that are with the team during the day. The day after the Steiner event.

I could be completely wrong, and I know we have to tread lightly here when discussing injuries. However, I believe this could be a fair assessment of the real underlying injury here. For him not to even DRESS for the Boston game suggested something far more serious than a regular bumps and bruises type of thing.

You might say, what about the day-to-day diagnosis by the organization? Well, its most likely something that needs a few days of testing, and other things to determine what exactly the issue is and or how they are going to approach the treatment. Maybe after a few days, everything is ok, and he can come back, or maybe it's something worse. I think they said that to keep people calm and to make sure they know what is going on before they make an announcement of a possible long term injury.

If the source of the info about his carotid artery (Dolan's limo driver) is correct, it's not entirely far-fetched being that the puck did hit him in that specific area, and all confirmed info (headaches, trouble breathing after the injury) are specifically related to that important part of the body.

Bottom line, whatever it is, I hope, (as I know all of you here do as well) for Hank to be back and playing as soon as possible.

His health always comes first before hockey. Let's hope we get some good news in the coming days.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Ok...so I want to post this first as a warning. Keep in mind, none of the information is confirmed by the organization, and is at this point here purely for discussion

However, here it goes...

A source on twitter claims his friends Dad is the limo driver for Dolan and overheard him saying the issue with Lundqvist has to do with an injury to his carotid artery.

The reason I find this interesting is that, the puck hit him directly on the left carotid artery. When I did some further research on blunt force trauma to the carotid artery, I found that:



Thrombosis for those who don't know is a blood clot. These can develop after a few days of the original injury, and can be very dangerous.

It has been officially reported that Hank was having headaches right after the injury, and had some more during the Steiner event which was the night before the Boston game he was scheduled to play. This could be related to the delayed neurologic deficits mentioned above.

This photo below (posted on Instagram was from earlier yesterday (before the Boston game) the caption reads as follows:

If this injury was related to just being sore, or something benign I doubt he would be visiting the Dr's outside of the ones that are with the team during the day. The day after the Steiner event.

I could be completely wrong, and I know we have to tread lightly here when discussing injuries. However, I believe this could be a fair assessment of the real underlying injury here. For him not to even DRESS for the Boston game suggested something far more serious than a regular bumps and bruises type of thing.

You might say, what about the day-to-day diagnosis by the organization? Well, its most likely something that needs a few days of testing, and other things to determine what exactly the issue is and or how they are going to approach the treatment. Maybe after a few days, everything is ok, and he can come back, or maybe it's something worse. I think they said that to keep people calm and to make sure they know what is going on before they make an announcement of a possible long term injury.

If the source of the info about his carotid artery (Dolan's limo driver) is correct, it's not entirely far-fetched being that the puck did hit him in that specific area, and all confirmed info (headaches, trouble breathing after the injury) are specifically related to that important part of the body.

Bottom line, whatever it is, I hope, (as I know all of you here do as well) for Hank to be back and playing as soon as possible.

His health always comes first before hockey. Let's hope we get some good news in the coming days.

Yup, I speculated that this was actually possible - puck hitting an artery. And would be in line w/ the ambiguity that the team is providing.

Another possibility, is that a bruise developed. Bruise is internal bleeding. Pretty sure that more trauma to a bruise could lead to a blood clot.

Bruise won't heal in a few days. Not fully. The blueish hue might fade but the internal soreness and bleeding would still be present. Could very well they want to make sure that the bruise goes away without allowing the opportunity for it create a much bigger problem.

The one thing that is giving me some sort of solace... teams don't mess around w/ blood clots. They shut their guys down immediately and get them on treatments ASAP. Henrik would be no exception, even with his warrior mentality.

Carotid artery makes sense, but only because we are yearning for answers and humans, in general, have a tendency to force pieces to fit even when they don't necessarily. Anyway, I don't buy that the limo driver heard Dolan say this, if this was even a factual story to begin with. Hopefully we find out whatever the deal is w/ Hanky tmrw... and hopefully it's not as morbid as this tweet.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Yup, I speculated that this was actually possible - puck hitting an artery. And would be in line w/ the ambiguity that the team is providing.

Another possibility, is that a bruise developed. Bruise is internal bleeding. Pretty sure that more trauma to a bruise could lead to a blood clot.

Bruise won't heal in a few days. Not fully. The blueish hue might fade but the internal soreness and bleeding would still be present. Could very well they want to make sure that the bruise goes away without allowing the opportunity for it create a much bigger problem.

The one thing that is giving me some sort of solace... teams don't mess around w/ blood clots. They shut their guys down immediately and get them on treatments ASAP. Henrik would be no exception, even with his warrior mentality.

Carotid artery makes sense, but only because we are yearning for answers and humans, in general, have a tendency to force pieces to fit even when they don't necessarily. Anyway, I don't buy that the limo driver heard Dolan say this, if this was even a factual story to begin with. Hopefully we find out whatever the deal is w/ Hanky tmrw... and hopefully it's not as morbid as this tweet.

And if I were to say anything to my peasant limo man servant, it would be about the Knicks.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

And if I were to say anything to my peasant limo man servant, it would be about the Knicks.

Not that this means anything at all... but one of my close friends went to Friends academy with Dolan's sons. He was friends w/ his sons. He's been to their house and met James a bunch. He said he never once talked about the Rangers or Knicks. Always about his band.

Another thing that I'm having a lot of trouble comprehending from the story is that Dolan would explicitly call out the medical name of the artery. To him, it would be just another artery found in the neck. And to the limo driver, probably the same.

Just seems like some twitter hack who is a Rangers fan who wants attention and is seeking it by providing answers to something we all desperately want to know.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

His health always comes first before hockey. Let's hope we get some good news in the coming days.

This is most important.... Also very well done on the research there very detailed


Hope you are wrong tho

 

[One Winged Angel]

Yikes, don't know what to think anymore.