Hearing for Torres on Stoll hit (Thurs 9am PT, NYC; w/DW); out for rest of WCSF

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Hold the Pickles

Registered User
Aug 16, 2003
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That makes no sense. If Stoll raised up Torres would have hit Stolls body and not his head.

People can make all the excuses they want for Torres, but he bears responsibility for this.

What he did was like getting in front of a cop, drunk, after three DUIs. Just not smart. He's dangerous.

I could have been more clear by adding a couple words. Stoll raised his head up (meaning up and back) into the path of the incoming hit which had already been initiated. His head was initially in front of where the contact would have occurred.

Your analogy is laughable. It's more like a cop targeting you because you have 3 DUIs, pulls you over. At which time he realizes that you haven't been drinking but puts you in jail anyway because you've been drunk in the past.
 
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Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,705
8,141
The onus is on the player not to put himself in position that leaves himself vulnerable to injury from a legal check. He has no obligation to protect himself from an illegal check. The responsibility for ensuring that a check is legal and clean is on the hitter, not the hittee.

This is a circular argument.

If the only two possible options from Torres' position on the ice were an illegal boarding penalty or an illegal head shot, then he should not have delivered any hit at all.

Boarding and head shot are not the only two viable options when on the ice.

Shanny used that as evidence of how Torres should have hit Stoll, not me. Nice try though.
 

Plowevelski

wuts this SCF thing?
Nov 19, 2010
1,453
0
BASED PETE DaBoAR
I hope this doesn't effect the possibility of DW signing Torres in the summer. He has to know the ruling is garbage and Torres was making a hockey play. Suspended for the remainder of the series because of his last name. What a ****ing joke.

Losing last night after having the lead made the last part of my night at work very ******. Yeah the officiating is terrible.. The split was necessary. Now we have to basically win at least 2 straight from LA in SJ and then preferably win game 5 at Staples to really turn this series upside down. So yeah basically 3 straight. Obviously I'm not that confident especially with how our team has been decimated by ********.

No Torres, no Havlat, no Burish... All 3 players out due to pure BS. If Torres can be suspended for being Torres then why wasn't Bieksa done for the series for taking out Marty with a ****ing stick to the groin? Why was Edler allowed to break Burish' hand without reprocussion due to a nasty slash? Why the hell is LA getting away with seemingly so much more crap? The NHL is bogus. :facepalm:

Bay area sports... Fail/get ref'd unless you're the Giants who can overcome all odds.
 

Tkachuk4MVP

32 Years of Fail
Apr 15, 2006
14,806
2,694
San Diego, CA
Well then the solution is obvious. We start signing Giants players so that they can sit in the press box and give the Sharks some of their magic. :sarcasm:


And on the flip side, we should find a way to get Dodgers players into Staples Center and give them some of their magic. :sarcasm:
 

SJeasy

Registered User
Feb 3, 2005
12,538
3
San Jose
Several items:

The same video that is being used to justify minimal contact shows Torres lifting into the hit. Not so much as to have his skates leave the ice, but lifting nonetheless. That probably did not go in his favor.

Blake is on the panel along with Shanny. IMO, DW used his golden tongue to get this reduced. Even using the league's unwritten policy of 3 reg season to 1 playoff game, it is maximally an 18 game suspension. It is in contradiction to their past behavior of escalating suspensions. IMO, the reason for this is that the infraction was much lesser than past behaviors.

I would not get into the definite/indefinite CBA argument as that might end up as a full six games and/or bias the appeal. On appeals, watch out. When they go for neutral arbitrators, you are talking about professional arbitrators, many of whom have never been hockey fans much less players in their lives. You might find that their decisions are even more unfavorable. In almost all actions, the league and players are loathe to go to the neutral arbitrators (see salary arbitration).

I wouldn't dream of wanting Campbell or Burke back in charge of league discipline. Their decisions were flat out awful and monstrously more inconsistent. And Shanny at least gives explanations even if you disagree with his reasoning. A good example of how bad it was before was initially not even giving a suspension to Pronger for his stomping incident and then reversing to a minimal suspension after a public outcry.

IMO, the suspension was an admission of Torres' hit not being in the range of previous hits in terms of severity. The hit that was most comparable to the Stoll hit and for which he was not suspended was the Seabrook hit. (If someone has a video, great.) At the time, Burke (surprise, not Shanny) explained that what would be an illegal headshot above the goal line was considered legal below the goal line on a forecheck (IMO BS in terms of player safety). The Seabrook hit was much more clear in terms of direct and almost sole contact to the head. The Stoll hit had other points of contact.

I would appreciate it if people admitted that initial point of contact and principle point of contact are different definitions. Initial does not equate to principle. And, be careful with wording of rules; the wording is designed to be less than specific.

IMO, DW has made a good case for Torres re-signing with the Sharks, by his support of Torres.

I won't even go into infractions behaviors of other players in this playoffs. I have seen worse.
 

matt trick

Registered User
Jun 12, 2007
9,808
1,437
Several items:

The same video that is being used to justify minimal contact shows Torres lifting into the hit. Not so much as to have his skates leave the ice, but lifting nonetheless. That probably did not go in his favor.

Blake is on the panel along with Shanny. IMO, DW used his golden tongue to get this reduced. Even using the league's unwritten policy of 3 reg season to 1 playoff game, it is maximally an 18 game suspension. It is in contradiction to their past behavior of escalating suspensions. IMO, the reason for this is that the infraction was much lesser than past behaviors.

I would not get into the definite/indefinite CBA argument as that might end up as a full six games and/or bias the appeal. On appeals, watch out. When they go for neutral arbitrators, you are talking about professional arbitrators, many of whom have never been hockey fans much less players in their lives. You might find that their decisions are even more unfavorable. In almost all actions, the league and players are loathe to go to the neutral arbitrators (see salary arbitration).

I wouldn't dream of wanting Campbell or Burke back in charge of league discipline. Their decisions were flat out awful and monstrously more inconsistent. And Shanny at least gives explanations even if you disagree with his reasoning. A good example of how bad it was before was initially not even giving a suspension to Pronger for his stomping incident and then reversing to a minimal suspension after a public outcry.

IMO, the suspension was an admission of Torres' hit not being in the range of previous hits in terms of severity. The hit that was most comparable to the Stoll hit and for which he was not suspended was the Seabrook hit. (If someone has a video, great.) At the time, Burke (surprise, not Shanny) explained that what would be an illegal headshot above the goal line was considered legal below the goal line on a forecheck (IMO BS in terms of player safety). The Seabrook hit was much more clear in terms of direct and almost sole contact to the head. The Stoll hit had other points of contact.

I would appreciate it if people admitted that initial point of contact and principle point of contact are different definitions. Initial does not equate to principle. And, be careful with wording of rules; the wording is designed to be less than specific.

IMO, DW has made a good case for Torres re-signing with the Sharks, by his support of Torres.

I won't even go into infractions behaviors of other players in this playoffs. I have seen worse.

Interesting thoughts throughout. The bolded I 100% agree with. I can't recall the org. being so outspoken about a disagreement with the league. The degree they went to bat for Torres has to have earned his appreciation. I expect he will be back. Also, DWs disagreement has to show that he wants Torres back.

One other thing about Torres. His hits, clean, and those that are not, are extremely heavy. He drilled people 5 or 6 times with the Sharks with clean hits. If he misses by a millisecond, he could connect with the head, and it is hard enough that he will receive a suspension.

I think Raffi will need to alter his game yet another notch. Even if he is confident he will get someone clean, he'll need to layoff. Mistakes happen in hockey, but if Torres makes a similar mistake, it'll be a 20 games, fair or not. Hopefully, he can develop his offense.
 

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
107,072
19,959
Sin City
SanJoseSharks 5:11pm via HootSuite

A statement from #SJSharks GM Doug Wilson regarding the Raffi Torres suspension. go.sjsharks.com/l9xav



Strong words from DW, in essence saying the length was purely reputation and nothing to do with incident.
 

Led Zappa

Tomorrow Today
Jan 8, 2007
50,345
873
Silicon Valley
Exactly what I said yesterday regarding the rule;

DW said:
Thus, with the use of the word "and", this rule clearly states that two elements must occur in order to violate the rule. Raffi absolutely did not target his opponent's head on the play.
 

Squeeven

Registered User
Sep 15, 2010
1,884
0
Toronto, Ontario
Wow, strong words indeed. Wonder if the NHL will respond. Have they ever?

That's what I wanna know. I am honestly so pissed at that suspension, such unfair bull****. I understand that Raffi has a bad history but that doesn't make it a dirty hit all of a sudden. Has Raffi commented on this whole thing yet? I'd like to know what he has to say.
 

Clarkington III

Rebuild? Refresh?
Aug 3, 2007
1,967
11
San Diego
Wow. Very well said. Would be great to see a gif of his reaction when that masterpiece was finished.

Conspiracy-theorists will say the reffing was NHL justice to whatever was said in the meeting.

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:


I am not a conspiracy theorist.
 

slocal

Dude...what?
May 4, 2010
16,125
7,002
Central Coast CA
That's what I wanna know. I am honestly so pissed at that suspension, such unfair bull****. I understand that Raffi has a bad history but that doesn't make it a dirty hit all of a sudden. Has Raffi commented on this whole thing yet? I'd like to know what he has to say.

Nothing from Raffi today per David Pollak

Wow. Very well said. Would be great to see a gif of his reaction when that masterpiece was finished.

Conspiracy-theorists will say the reffing was NHL justice to whatever was said in the meeting.

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:


I am not a conspiracy theorist.

Drop-the-mic.gif
 

thrillermiller89

Registered User
Jan 19, 2010
1,759
249
San Jose
I guarantee you'll see a final 4 of LA, Chicago, Boston, and Pittsburgh...

And if the Finals are Chicago vs Pittsburgh I think I may just puke.

It's rigged--it's been rigged for some time.

Hockey is no longer a sport, it's a revenue-generating machine of "entertainment"
 

Coily

Gettin' Jiggy with it
Oct 8, 2008
34,628
2,249
Redlands
Doug didn't use enough scientific lingo. He should take notes from Dean on the NHL clock system of doom and re-write this with more angle geometry and complex words.
 

one2gamble

Registered User
Dec 24, 2007
17,070
8,095
Fine incoming to DW in 3..2..1

That statement is exactly what the rest of us have been saying this entire time. Its *********.
 

Alwalys

Phu m.
May 19, 2010
25,894
6,140
SanJoseSharks 5:11pm via HootSuite

A statement from #SJSharks GM Doug Wilson regarding the Raffi Torres suspension. go.sjsharks.com/l9xav

Strong words from DW, in essence saying the length was purely reputation and nothing to do with incident.

great statement, exactly what many if not most of us have been saying. it's right there on video.

Doug didn't use enough scientific lingo. He should take notes from Dean on the NHL clock system of doom and re-write this with more angle geometry and complex words.

You get cheeky when you know you got away with one, not when you got screwed over.
 

Squeeven

Registered User
Sep 15, 2010
1,884
0
Toronto, Ontario
Doug didn't use enough scientific lingo. He should take notes from Dean on the NHL clock system of doom and re-write this with more angle geometry and complex words.

And make a video that starts with the NHL logo being put together like a puzzle with cool sound effects, then show the hit in slow motion while narrating through the whole thing then throw in a few red arrows too while he's at it. :sarcasm:
 
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