Post-Game Talk: Habs tanking ways no matssss against Pen Firepower, Lose 5-3 -- Jaffy Rises Yet Again

[Lebowski]

delete

 

[Mrb1p]

With Galchenyuk at center, the Habs gave up 0.52 high danger scoring chances per 60 more than the team average. Which is bad. With Drouin at center, the Habs give up 1.13 high danger scoring chances per 60 more than team average. Drouin at center got even cushier minutes than Galchenyuk. Drouin, for a first pair guy, doesn't even face other teams top players as much as one would expect.

Plus Galchenyuk is much better defensively than he used to be. I don't see how it's even a debate. Galchenyuk is better in every metric, except the language one.

 

[Skip Bayless]

I've been very critical of Galchenyuk, but last night was probably one of the best games I've seen him play. He was on another gear, I hope it becomes a regular thing.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Plus Galchenyuk is much better defensively than he used to be. I don't see how it's even a debate. Galchenyuk is better in every metric, except the language one.

It doesn’t make any sense in nothing games on a team starved for centers and you’re going as far as playing De La Rose and Byron as top 6 C’s to not at the very VERY least see what you have in Galchenyuk. I don’t know why this is hard to see for some people. In fact, I don’t believe anyone is stupid enough to not see it at this point. They’re trying guys with no back track at the position over somebody who produced at almost a PPG. And ironically, the thing he was critiqued most for was defence and the guy they’ve been experimenting with has been revealed as much worse in that area.

The politics within this organization will ensure this team never sees real success and that moron Molson has to go as everytime these cockroaches own this team, they bring in a corrupt crew that has no idea what they’re doing with them.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Plus Galchenyuk is much better defensively than he used to be. I don't see how it's even a debate. Galchenyuk is better in every metric, except the language one.

I'm not sure I'd say Galchenyuk is much better defensively and I defenitely wouldn't say he's better than Drouin in every metric (Drouin is undeniably better at setting guys up), but Galchenyuk, even when he was at a similar stage in his career, showed more at center.

 

[417]

It doesn’t make any sense in nothing games on a team starved for centers and you’re going as far as playing De La Rose and Byron as top 6 C’s to not at the very VERY least see what you have in Galchenyuk. I don’t know why this is hard to see for some people. In fact, I don’t believe anyone is stupid enough to not see it at this point. They’re trying guys with no back track at the position over somebody who produced at almost a PPG. And ironically, the thing he was critiqued most for was defence and the guy they’ve been experimenting with has been revealed as much worse in that area.

The politics within this organization will ensure this team never sees real success and that moron Molson has to go as everytime these cockroaches own this team, they bring in a corrupt crew that has no idea what they’re doing with them.

Maybe it's just time to come to grips with the fact they don't want to use Galchenyuk at center, right or wrong...

 

[Lebowski]

Maybe it's just time to come to grips with the fact they don't want to use Galchenyuk at center, right or wrong...

I think everyone has come to terms with that. Doesn't mean we can't call them out on it.

 

[Skip Bayless]

I mean, he's learning, you even saw him with an IPad looking at his misassignement right after that goal...

Meh, marketing ploy.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Maybe it's just time to come to grips with the fact they don't want to use Galchenyuk at center, right or wrong...

It really bugs me because it shows how poorly this franchise is run. It has nothing to do with Galchenyuk. Only reason I even defend him is because he’s an example of what happens when you let politics get in the way. Desharnais and Drouin are examples. If we are going to let politics run this team and live off the past, what does that mean for the future?

 

[417]

I think everyone has come to terms with that. Doesn't mean we can't call them out on it.

Sure - seems like overkill at this point though.

It's constantly brought up, every single day, every single game and now it's being intertwined with Drouin and creating some lame Drouin vs Galchenyuk storyline.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

 

[Lebowski]

Sure - seems like overkill at this point though.

It's constantly brought up, every single day, every single game and now it's being intertwined with Drouin and creating some lame Drouin vs Galchenyuk storyline.

I like both Drouin and Galchenyuk, personally.

The reason it's still being debated is that a select few posters apparently still side with the management's position on this.

 

[417]

It really bugs me because it shows how poorly this franchise is run. It has nothing to do with Galchenyuk. Only reason I even defend him is because he’s an example of what happens when you let politics get in the way. Desharnais and Drouin are examples. If we are going to let politics run this team and live off the past, what does that mean for the future?

It's annoying sure - I too would love to see Galchenyuk at center...but the coaching staff or management or whatever, feels differently.

So be it.

Either way, I find Alex Galchenyuk, especailly the last few weeks has looked great as a winger...he's playing a much more complete game, if that eventually leads to him playing center again, great, if not, he can be a very good winger as well.

 

[Lebowski]

It's annoying sure - I too would love to see Galchenyuk at center...but the coaching staff or management or whatever, feels differently.

So be it.

Either way, I find Alex Galchenyuk, especailly the last few weeks has looked great as a winger...he's playing a much more complete game, if that eventually leads to him playing center again, great, if not, he can be a very good winger as well.

Funny thing is, Galchenyuk makes most of his plays happen by cutting through the middle.

He doesn't take draws, but he ends up controlling the middle of the ice more often than not.

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm not sure I'd say Galchenyuk is much better defensively and I defenitely wouldn't say he's better than Drouin in every metric (Drouin is undeniably better at setting guys up), but Galchenyuk, even when he was at a similar stage in his career, showed more at center.

Galchenyuk has more assists than Drouin this year. All this "Drouin is better than" is made up of fantasy from his draft pedigree. Nothing else. Drouin showed nothing in the league.

(INB4 BUT THOSE 13 GAMES IN THE PO'S)

 

[Lebowski]

Galchenyuk has more assists than Drouin this year. All this "Drouin is better than" is made up of fantasy from his draft pedigree. Nothing else. Drouin showed nothing in the league.

(INB4 BUT THOSE 13 GAMES IN THE PO'S)

14 points in 17 games, actually.

Or those 53 points in 73 games last season.

But you know, you made up your mind already. Showed nothing in this league, I tell ya.

 

[417]

I like both Drouin and Galchenyuk, personally.

The reason it's still being debated is that a select few posters apparently still side with the management's position on this.

I guess...but let's also not act as though Galchenyuk being a winger is something only Habs management feels.

His junior coach thought he was more of a winger, Phil Housely thought he was a winger, the people in charge for putting together the U-23 team for the World Cup also thought he was more of a winger.

 

[417]

Funny thing is, Galchenyuk makes most of his plays happen by cutting through the middle.

He doesn't take draws, but he ends up controlling the middle of the ice more often than not.

So did Kovalev or Radulov or many wingers...doesn't necessarily make them centers.

But again, I just want to reiterate, I've always thought that Galchenyuk deserved more of a chance as a center than he received...but it doesn't appear as though that's in the cards.

Regardless...if they feel he's a winger, fine...just leave him there then.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Plus Galchenyuk is much better defensively than he used to be. I don't see how it's even a debate. Galchenyuk is better in every metric, except the language one.

Just stop with the language bullshit my god

 

[Lebowski]

I guess...but let's also not act as though Galchenyuk being a winger is something only Habs management feels.

His junior coach thought he was more of a winger, Phil Housely thought he was a winger, the people in charge for putting together the U-23 team for the World Cup also thought he was more of a winger.

A lot of that is circumstantial, though. The same way Stamkos is considered a winger on TC, Galchenyuk obviously has deficiencies at center still, and they can be partly mitigated by moving him to the wing. That makes sense if you have solid centers in place. It doesn't when you have a revolving door of bottom six players, some of which are wingers to boot, playing as top 6 centers.

That was always the big argument when it came to Desharnais being used on the 1st line instead of Chucky. The issue wasn't so much that Galchenyuk wasn't groomed as a center, it was about who was being put in that position instead of Galchenyuk. Had he been drafted by Pittsburgh or Washington and had a team with the luxury of having Crosby/Malkin or Backstrom/Kuznetsov as the top 2C, no one would have ever argued for him to be a center.

At the end of the day, it's 4-5 years of development as a center that were spoiled by the management of this team. If they committed to his development as a center back in 2013-2014, which is where the argument mostly started, chances are he'd be a decent enough top line center by now. Same goes for Eller, by the way. He was meant to be Plekanec's replacement, with added size as a bonus. Never committed to groom him into an offensive role in spite of a 30 points season in 46 games in 12-13, and now we're left with Danault and nothing else as a natural center in our top 9, when we could have Galchenyuk/Eller/Danault.

 

[417]

A lot of that is circumstantial, though. The same way Stamkos is considered a winger on TC, Galchenyuk obviously has deficiencies at center still, and they can be partly mitigated by moving him to the wing. That makes sense if you have solid centers in place. It doesn't when you have a revolving door of bottom six players, some of which are wingers to boot, playing as top 6 centers.

Agreed that a lot of it is circumstancial...all the more reason why it seems kinda foolish at this point to keep being hung up about it. The point here is that Alex Galchenyuk becomes the absolute best player he can be, whether that's as a winger or center, right?

That was always the big argument when it came to Desharnais being used on the 1st line instead of Chucky. The issue wasn't so much that Galchenyuk wasn't groomed as a center, it was about who was being put in that position instead of Galchenyuk. Had he been drafted by Pittsburgh or Washington and had a team with the luxury of having Crosby/Malkin or Backstrom/Kuznetsov as the top 2C, no one would have ever argued for him to be a center.

Agreed 100%

At the end of the day, it's 4-5 years of development as a center that were spoiled by the management of this team. If they committed to his development as a center back in 2013-2014, which is where the argument mostly started, chances are he'd be a decent enough top line center by now. Same goes for Eller, by the way. He was meant to be Plekanec's replacement, with added size as a bonus. Never committed to groom him into an offensive role in spite of a 30 points season in 46 games in 12-13, and now we're left with Danault and nothing else as a natural center in our top 9, when we could have Galchenyuk/Eller/Danault.

You're preaching to the choir

 

[Captain Mountain]

Galchenyuk has more assists than Drouin this year. All this "Drouin is better than" is made up of fantasy from his draft pedigree. Nothing else. Drouin showed nothing in the league.

(INB4 BUT THOSE 13 GAMES IN THE PO'S)

Its not made up. Drouin sets up teammates in scoring positions for scoring opportunities at higher rate than most guys in the NHL. He's legitimately fantastic in that regard. There's other stuff he does better than Galchenyuk too. I think Galchenyuk is better suited at center to Drouin for a variety of reasons, but saying Glachenyuk is better than Drouin in every way is being unfair to Drouin (ignores things he does well) and Galchenyuk (sets him as better than he actually is).

They're both talented but flawed players that haven't been managed (or utilized) very well by the Habs.

 

[CauZuki]

Forgot to mention toughest match up.

It's not much of a matchup when the puck is nearly always in the back of the net when he is on the ice. He holds on to the puck too long , doesn't shoot when he should and is very suspect defensively. How do you explain that he isn't getting the Galchenyuk treatment? Why hasn't he been demoted to the 3rd/4th line or seen his ice-time reduced?

 

[nhlfan9191]

Agreed that a lot of it is circumstancial...all the more reason why it seems kinda foolish at this point to keep being hung up about it. The point here is that Alex Galchenyuk becomes the absolute best player he can be, whether that's as a winger or center, right?

The bolded is true, but how do you know which is better when you decide to completely eliminate one of the options despite having evidence that it could work? If they try him and he fails, so be it. But they’re not giving him a fair shake which has been the case for most of his career.

 

[Mrb1p]

So did Kovalev or Radulov or many wingers...doesn't necessarily make them centers.

But again, I just want to reiterate, I've always thought that Galchenyuk deserved more of a chance as a center than he received...but it doesn't appear as though that's in the cards.

Regardless...if they feel he's a winger, fine...just leave him there then.

Radulov literally never took the middle of the ice, his strength is his play along the boards and down low... Something Galchenyuk is incredibly weak at.