Proposal: Habs package for speeding up the rebuild

[Bijelo]

I think Kakko could be traded…. He and his agent may only want a 1 year deal. Kakko might want to go to a team where he’ll get the opportunity for top 2 line minutes and pp/pk time…..

True. Kakko trade might go. Kakko wanted play more and better in worse team or in NHL newcomer like Atlanta or another newcomer team.

 

[Xirik]

Rangers have 5 core players 30 or older

Kreider
Zibby
Panarin
Trouba
Goodrow

You can count brodzinski too but he’s their 13 fwd/injury fill in….

Goodrow and Trouba could be moved as early as this offseason.

Zibby/tro/Panarin will all be here for 2 years or longer….
Rangers have a good solid stream of talent coming up thru the ranks.
Perrault is the headliner, but guys like Othmann/berard/sykora etc should all fit in the top 9 nicely with their skill and style of play….
Edstrom/rempe/Cuylle have demonstrated they are nhl players as well.
Chytil is a wildcard….. he could be done, or come back healthy. He’s another young talented big body player.
NYR is going a contender for a while…… they no longer should have to overpay for bottom 6 talent/role players which bit us in the ass in years past.
They will be a playoff team for quite a long time.
They are also 1 of the premier UFA destinations. If needed, they will continue to add that route as well.

I think Kakko could be traded…. He and his agent may only want a 1 year deal. Kakko might want to go to a team where he’ll get the opportunity for top 2 line minutes and pp/pk time…..

He’s kind of stuck in 3rd line atm in NY.
He doesn’t have chemistry with Zibby/kreider…… Zibby hasn’t looked great all year tbh…. He’s still getting points on the PP, but this might be the worst year for him playing wise in the last 4-5 seasons

A bit of a rosy picture painted but I'll agree with you on the premier destination part.

With the M-NTC on both Trouba and Goodrow it will be incredibly hard to find a trade partner and both are probably going to hurt to get rid of with retention and perhaps picks.


Maybe the Habs would be interested in a retained Trouba if it gets them Kakko.

 

[Scintillating10]

Rangers have 5 core players 30 or older

Kreider
Zibby
Panarin
Trouba
Goodrow

You can count brodzinski too but he’s their 13 fwd/injury fill in….

Goodrow and Trouba could be moved as early as this offseason.

Zibby/tro/Panarin will all be here for 2 years or longer….
Rangers have a good solid stream of talent coming up thru the ranks.
Perrault is the headliner, but guys like Othmann/berard/sykora etc should all fit in the top 9 nicely with their skill and style of play….
Edstrom/rempe/Cuylle have demonstrated they are nhl players as well.
Chytil is a wildcard….. he could be done, or come back healthy. He’s another young talented big body player.
NYR is going a contender for a while…… they no longer should have to overpay for bottom 6 talent/role players which bit us in the ass in years past.
They will be a playoff team for quite a long time.
They are also 1 of the premier UFA destinations. If needed, they will continue to add that route as well.

I think Kakko could be traded…. He and his agent may only want a 1 year deal. Kakko might want to go to a team where he’ll get the opportunity for top 2 line minutes and pp/pk time…..

He’s kind of stuck in 3rd line atm in NY.
He doesn’t have chemistry with Zibby/kreider…… Zibby hasn’t looked great all year tbh…. He’s still getting points on the PP, but this might be the worst year for him playing wise in the last 4-5 seasons

Would you trade Kakko for Jets pick?

 

[bernmeister]

Rangers have 5 core players 30 or older

Kreider
Zibby
Panarin
Trouba
Goodrow

You can count brodzinski too but he’s their 13 fwd/injury fill in….

Goodrow and Trouba could be moved as early as this offseason.

Zibby/tro/Panarin will all be here for 2 years or longer….
Rangers have a good solid stream of talent coming up thru the ranks.
Perrault is the headliner, but guys like Othmann/berard/sykora etc should all fit in the top 9 nicely with their skill and style of play….
Edstrom/rempe/Cuylle have demonstrated they are nhl players as well.
Chytil is a wildcard….. he could be done, or come back healthy. He’s another young talented big body player.
NYR is going a contender for a while…… they no longer should have to overpay for bottom 6 talent/role players which bit us in the ass in years past.
They will be a playoff team for quite a long time.
They are also 1 of the premier UFA destinations. If needed, they will continue to add that route as well.

I think Kakko could be traded…. He and his agent may only want a 1 year deal. Kakko might want to go to a team where he’ll get the opportunity for top 2 line minutes and pp/pk time…..

He’s kind of stuck in 3rd line atm in NY.
He doesn’t have chemistry with Zibby/kreider…… Zibby hasn’t looked great all year tbh…. He’s still getting points on the PP, but this might be the worst year for him playing wise in the last 4-5 seasons

all true, but does not mention currently eye test PROVES KK + Cuylle have good chem. Right now. Can get by w/improving Brodz, but add a higher end 3C and voila!
Trading KK most scenarios = mistake

True. Kakko trade might go. Kakko wanted play more and better in worse team or in NHL newcomer like Atlanta or another newcomer team.

falsely presumes he would not prefer to stay where there is actual chem and certainty if team sees upgrade to pivot on his line, they will make a push to go there.
That is pivotal to his success, and not a given elsewhere.

 

[Fatass]

I’m not too sure speeding up a rebuild is a great idea but if the Habs were going to try then they need to target elite skill and a high end goalie.

 

[bernmeister]

A bit of a rosy picture painted but I'll agree with you on the premier destination part.

With the M-NTC on both Trouba and Goodrow it will be incredibly hard to find a trade partner and both are probably going to hurt to get rid of with retention and perhaps picks.


Maybe the Habs would be interested in a retained Trouba if it gets them Kakko.

Goodrow has positive value reduced 3.x to 2.0.
no need to sweeten

Troub similar retain down to 6.5-ish
deal will be something like
Trouba retained + two 4ths
for
2nd + 3rd + small cap dump

team will be out of division, but where he is comfy
not likely to Canada based team
likely DET

can see emerging ANA if he wants to try CA

Would you trade Kakko for Jets pick?

hell no
huge underpay

 

[jay from jersey]

all true, but does not mention currently eye test PROVES KK + Cuylle have good chem. Right now. Can get by w/improving Brodz, but add a higher end 3C and voila!
Trading KK most scenarios = mistake


falsely presumes he would not prefer to stay where there is actual chem and certainty if team sees upgrade to pivot on his line, they will make a push to go there.
That is pivotal to his success, and not a given elsewhere.

Having chemistry with linemates on 3rd line doesn’t guarantee him a larger opportunity for more 5V5 minutes or special teams time….
I would not trade Kakko either, but we’re talking about a player who’s going into year 5-6. Not a cost controlled-ELC guy for the next 3 seasons.
If he and his agent want to extend in NY for anything past 1 year, Great. If he wants a chance at top 2 line minutes/special teams time with another franchise ( that may not be as good atm) in order to get a fat multi-year contract as well, your dealing with a ticking clock….
You can’t say I falsely presume he wants to leave.
It’s more like you falsely presume he wants to stay long term in his current role.

the only way I see Kakko staying in ny long term is if they agree on a 1 year deal, and next season he’s great with zibs/kreider…. Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of hope for that.

 

[bernmeister]

Having chemistry with linemates on 3rd line doesn’t guarantee him a larger opportunity for more 5V5 minutes or special teams time….
I would not trade Kakko either, but we’re talking about a player who’s going into year 5-6. Not a cost controlled-ELC guy for the next 3 seasons.
If he and his agent want to extend in NY for anything past 1 year, Great. If he wants a chance at top 2 line minutes/special teams time with another franchise ( that may not be as good atm) in order to get a fat multi-year contract as well, your dealing with a ticking clock….

I agree that most #s do not justify long term contract

Does not have to be 1 yr or no for KK to stay
Can be 3, maybe 4 if he is low enuf cost

Main pt is I want to unlock his potential
We did 2 steps w/LaF
1. develop player - = this is largely to some extent same w/KK, tho room for more offense, howev, that is also a function of his line + coach's system
2. place player in great chance to succeed w/line that has chemistry

We SEE Cuylle + KK need to be patient, use Brodz while we upgrade
assuming/preparing in case Chytil not returning/gets injured again

 

[pth2]

I’m not too sure speeding up a rebuild is a great idea but if the Habs were going to try then they need to target elite skill and a high end goalie.

Speeding up the rebuild in this case is moving 2024 picks for 2019 or 2020 draftees who aren't 4 years away. The plan seems to be to get elite skill with Montreal's own (high) picks, and to get the rest of the top-6 through trades for kids with some development already baked in.

It isn't trading for 28 year olds who are a year away from being UFAs.

 

[jay from jersey]

Would you trade Kakko for Jets pick?

I think the value is there… question is does Drury/co want draft capital or an nhl ready player/prospect at a different position????
Quite frankly, NYR has a need for both…
But, Drury and gorton also don’t like each other either. That is another possible hurdle.
Maybe a 3- team deal could accommodate all parties??

Kakko is no bust. He’s already proven to be a solid middle 6 2-way winger that can produce 5v5.
The main question is how good can he become given the opportunity??? A late first should be a win for any team that gets him even if he doesn’t progress more from what he is now. But he’s got the skill/pedigree to do more imo

 

[pth2]

I think the value is there… question is does Drury/co want draft capital or an nhl ready player/prospect at a different position????
Quite frankly, NYR has a need for both…
But, Drury and gorton also don’t like each other either. That is another possible hurdle.
Maybe a 3- team deal could accommodate all parties??

The way I see it, it gives NYR a trading chip, as well, if they want to add/complement their current core, rather than keep developping Kakko. I guess the playoffs will show if NYR want to change things around for next season.

 

[jay from jersey]

The way I see it, it gives NYR a trading chip, as well, if they want to add/complement their current core, rather than keep developping Kakko. I guess the playoffs will show if NYR want to change things around for next season.

Honestly, a lot will depend on what Kakko and his agent want to do this offseason…. If he only signs a 1 year deal, it’s proof imo he plans on getting a larger opportunity some where else…. If he signs for longer, he might be committed to staying…..

But if it is a 1 year deal, he’s on the market, cause the clock is ticking.

Guess we are all in a wait and see come draft time

 

[Baksfamous112]

I’m not too sure speeding up a rebuild is a great idea but if the Habs were going to try then they need to target elite skill and a high end goalie.

They’re getting their elite skill players through their own draft picks. Acquired 1st/2nd from other teams are being dangled to fill out the rest of the roster.

Goalies are fine. Montembeault is 24 and Primeau 24. Both playing well and barely entering their prime.

 

[Fatass]

Speeding up the rebuild in this case is moving 2024 picks for 2019 or 2020 draftees who aren't 4 years away. The plan seems to be to get elite skill with Montreal's own (high) picks, and to get the rest of the top-6 through trades for kids with some development already baked in.

It isn't trading for 28 year olds who are a year away from being UFAs.

Sure, but which clubs are going to trade away their elite 20 year old guys for picks? Habs need guys better than what they currently have so those current guys can move down the lineup where they would be better suited. Best to go for the 25-28 year old who is a proven top line guy.

 

[Fatass]

They’re getting their elite skill players through their own draft picks. Acquired 1st/2nd from other teams are being dangled to fill out the rest of the roster.

Goalies are fine. Montembeault is 24 and Primeau 24. Both playing well and barely entering their prime.

Love Suzuki. He’s not a high end 1C though. He’s a perfect 2C. I don’t think they currently have a 1D either. And certainly they need an experienced #1 goalie to carry the load while the younger guys dual it out to be the guy after Markstrom.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Love Suzuki. He’s not a high end 1C though. He’s a perfect 2C. I don’t think they currently have a 1D either. And certainly they need an experienced #1 goalie to carry the load while the younger guys dual it out to be the guy after Markstrom.

So what exactly qualifies as a 1C if Suzuki is a 2C? 24 years old, 74 pts in 77 games playing PP1 and PK1 with still room to grow.

Edit: He’s #13 in scoring for C’s while being on the 28th GF team in the league.

Habs don’t have a 1D yet but Guhle ain’t very far off and Reinbacher is certainly has the potential and skillset to get there. Hutson is a long shot but potential ceiling is there.

Montembeault is doing just fine as a starter. Primeau is only 24 and might end up the better of the two

 

[jay from jersey]

Love Suzuki. He’s not a high end 1C though. He’s a perfect 2C. I don’t think they currently have a 1D either. And certainly they need an experienced #1 goalie to carry the load while the younger guys dual it out to be the guy after Markstrom.

Imo the Habs are going to need to add some vets/proven winners and establish a winning culture/good locker room presence…
I see some of the line ups etc being made up on here, and I just give a head shake.
No coach is going to start a top 6 D full of 1st and 2nd year players…
The team will suck…. You need leaders/role models that are good on and off the ice. Guys that take losing personally.
Also need guys that play with emotion and play physical to mix with your skill guys….
A lot can be found in FA. Even if you have to overpay a touch…
Buffalo and OTT didn’t have enough of these guys, losing culture is kind of engrained there now. It’s tough to cut that cancer out when it’s been lingering for a long time…
Mon should not let this happen… open tanking etc is not the way to go. You have to be competitive and want to make playoffs every single season…..
if I were GM, I’d build from the net out…. If a team has strong goaltending and spine with its centers top 3-4 D, the rest will fall into place…
Top flight centers/top 2 D and top 5 goalie….. that’s where the money/assets should be spent…. And surround them with quality vets that are pros in the room, on and off the ice

Guhle/Reinbacher/Suzuki are your only untouchables at this point imo…
Slaf should be there long term as well. But finding wingers isn’t as hard as top centers

 

[GAGLine]

The way I see it, it gives NYR a trading chip, as well, if they want to add/complement their current core, rather than keep developping Kakko. I guess the playoffs will show if NYR want to change things around for next season.

Why would we trade Kakko for something else that we can then trade?

In a 3-way deal, maybe, but we aren't going to trade Kakko for a 1st and then trade that first for something else down the road. There's no point in going through a middleman in that case.

Unless Kakko requests a trade, there's no reason to trade him. The skill is there. The production is down this year, but there are reasons for it, not the least of which was the injury. Everyone was happy when he put up 40 points on the 3rd line last year without PP time. He didn't suddenly forget how to play.

 

[pth2]

Sure, but which clubs are going to trade away their elite 20 year old guys for picks? Habs need guys better than what they currently have so those current guys can move down the lineup where they would be better suited. Best to go for the 25-28 year old who is a proven top line guy.

Well, Chicago and Colorado moved on from Newhook and Dach.

 

[CTHabsfan]

Guhle/Reinbacher/Suzuki are your only untouchables at this point imo…
Slaf should be there long term as well. But finding wingers isn’t as hard as top centers

There is no such thing as an untouchable if you receive the right offer, but there are players who are virtually untouchable and you should have included Slafkovsky in your list. How often can you find a player with his size, physicality, and skill?

 

[Baksfamous112]

Imo the Habs are going to need to add some vets/proven winners and establish a winning culture/good locker room presence…
I see some of the line ups etc being made up on here, and I just give a head shake.
No coach is going to start a top 6 D full of 1st and 2nd year players…
The team will suck…. You need leaders/role models that are good on and off the ice. Guys that take losing personally.
Also need guys that play with emotion and play physical to mix with your skill guys….
A lot can be found in FA. Even if you have to overpay a touch…
Buffalo and OTT didn’t have enough of these guys, losing culture is kind of engrained there now. It’s tough to cut that cancer out when it’s been lingering for a long time…
Mon should not let this happen… open tanking etc is not the way to go. You have to be competitive and want to make playoffs every single season…..
if I were GM, I’d build from the net out…. If a team has strong goaltending and spine with its centers top 3-4 D, the rest will fall into place…
Top flight centers/top 2 D and top 5 goalie….. that’s where the money/assets should be spent…. And surround them with quality vets that are pros in the room, on and off the ice

Guhle/Reinbacher/Suzuki are your only untouchables at this point imo…
Slaf should be there long term as well. But finding wingers isn’t as hard as top centers

The Habs will build around Guhle, Reinbacher, Suzuki, Slafkovski and Dach. These 5 are the core and 100% untouchable.

*Would like to see Dach stay healthy as well. I have high hope for him if he can avoid the doctor office.

 

[Mrb1p]

Love Suzuki. He’s not a high end 1C though. He’s a perfect 2C. I don’t think they currently have a 1D either. And certainly they need an experienced #1 goalie to carry the load while the younger guys dual it out to be the guy after Markstrom.

Hes 16th in PPG for centers this year, while being a better defensive player than all but 4 of them. He's 100% a 1C, and depending on what you mean by high-end, he could be considered as such. He's a top 15 C in the league.

 

[Fatass]

Well, Chicago and Colorado moved on from Newhook and Dach.

I wouldn’t exactly classify those two as elite. Teams move on from young players most often because they see that player as having a capped ceiling. I do like Dach.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

You might wanna check out the stats pal haha. Slaf’s playing more minutes because hes not on a team going to the eastern conference finals like laff was in D+2.

Laff had more even strength goals D+2 playing on a checking line than slaf has total goals this year. Wild.

Slaf: 31 EV points and counting.
Laf: 29 EV points (in D+2)

Slaf with more EV points than Laf and blowing his D+2 season out of the water in total points.

So...they are not comparable. At all.


Glad to see Laf find his game this sesaon playing with a super star in Panarin!

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Slaf: 31 EV points and counting.
Laf: 29 EV points (in D+2)

Slaf with more EV points than Laf and blowing his D+2 season out of the water in total points.

So...they are not comparable. At all.


Glad to see Laf find his game this sesaon playing with a super star in Panarin!

You might wanna look at points per 60. And im not even asking you to compare linemates if we wanna compare apples to apples of course.