ThatGuy22
Registered User
- Oct 11, 2011
- 10,521
- 4,205
You under estimate how much teams love truculance. His brother got traded for a first with way less stats
Confirmed with Link: Greenway to Buffalo for a 2nd and a 5th
- Thread starter Bazeek
- Start date
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
- Aug 9, 2011
- 3,060
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Why? Zack Phillips was a late bloomer but he eventually was point per game in Poland.
I hope Greenway succeeds. He wasn't going to do it here and he pissed off Guerin enough that Guerin had enough. The only thing Greenway has is his size and he didn't use it enough here.
Buffalo fans already grumbling about the lack of conditioning for the Big Rig. Also think that Minnesota was the problem...
I wish him the best, but also think that he needs some guidance. He hasn’t come close to delivering on his promise. Granato to seems to think he can make him go. Maybe, but he needs the off season for a reset.
Am I the only one who gets angry, or at least wistful, when I see him moved less than a year after the Fiala trade? Being more proactive with JG, and a couple of other moves, and we could’ve kept him.
Am I the only one who gets angry, or at least wistful, when I see him moved less than a year after the Fiala trade? Being more proactive with JG, and a couple of other moves, and we could’ve kept him.
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BagHead
Registered User
Sure, we could have kept him (were he to sign the same deal he did in LA, which we don't know he would), but there was also downside risk doing that. Most teams don't stay competitive after handing out huge contracts to multiple forwards. The Wild may have been able to pull it off, though, given how great of deals most of the rest of their contracts are. Say whatever else you will about Guerin, the guy typically gets good deals on contracts.
I seem to recall the Wild having lots of issues with Fiala's previous contract negotiations. Maybe that was the hangup for Guerin, the knowledge that the negotiations would be hard fought and wouldn't result in a good deal.
Not directed at you: In regards to Greenway... his problem is Greenway. He needs an offseason to get healthy and conditioned, or he'll burn out of the league eventually.
It depends; if the rumors were true about Fiala and management, I don't think he would have stayed regardless of cap space. As well, I think Guerin had hoped that JG had turned a corner and was going to be that dominant 3rd line forward that potted 40-50 points a season. But alas that didn't happen and Guerin cut before his value tanked even further. You can be mad at Guerin for botching the Fiala situation, but also praise him for rectifying the situation with Greenway before he tanked his value even further.
LAK have been great since signing Fiala, and, IMO, just under 8 M isn’t huge for a star first liner. With that sort of attitude we’d never sign any star players for what they are worth.
Instead we gave Boldy a big contract. I really like him, but we could’ve gone a different route with, bridging him, and paying him the big bucks later, when Zucc’s contract was up, and we had a a lot of ELC talent. At this point, Boldy isn’t close to being as good as Fiala, yet is being paid only 1M less. I understand that there are other factors at work, but to this day, I think Guerin somehow allowed his emotions to get in the way in dealing with Fiala’s agent, causing him to botch the negotiations. He also overvalued grit, and character, and undervalued skill and flat out talent.
It’s true that winning teams need grit and character, but make no mistake, you get talent first(either defensive or offensive), then flesh out the rest later. You don’t get a Barclay Goodrow first, then look for a Stamkos, Hedman, or Kucherov. DeBrusk first, the look for a Pastrnak or Bergeron. Mario Tremblay first, the look for a Beliveau, Robinson, or Cournoyer. I could go on, and on.
I value defensive play highly, and know that there is a place for toughness and grit, but you always nail down your star scorers (you are lucky if you can get three), a goalie, a C, and two really good Dmen.
You then fill out the rest of your roster. You don’t nail down peripheral players like Foligno and Greenway at the expense of a first line star…nvm Goligoski, whatever the hell he is. Even Zuccarello, as much as I like him and think is doing great….you don’t keep him over a guy who is more talented, and 9 years younger, I don’t care how good he is. I still think that Guerin could’ve kept both, but if it came down to it, I’d have Zucc walk the plank every time.
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BagHead
Registered User
I'm not suggesting they don't pay for any of their most talented players, I'm saying there's a point at which you can't pay for more of them and still ice a competitive team under the salary cap. I don't think the Wild were quite at that point yet, and I'm fairly sure Guerin's emotions played a role in the decision, he's only human. I also said I think the Wild could have still been good while paying him, as most of their contracts are pretty good value. I fully agree that you need skill first and foremost.
I'm not sure what the team would have looked like long-term with his contract. Does he still score well when he's in his 30's? Is he under $8M/yr if he signs with the Wild, or does he charge an Evason premium... or did he take a Kings discount? Does his contract eventually force us to move other emerging players who are also 1st line talents, but younger? These are all things we don't or can't know, and are risk factors and opportunity costs. My main point is that "signing Fiala is only good" is a false statement, one which I don't think you're implying, but plenty of others around here have, and they're also why I'm not going to lose sleep over the trade.
Funny, considering Foligno literally gushed about how much more work was expected once he came to MN vs BUF
