Gostisbehere Vs Rielly

[zeke]

I'm in awe how someone legit thinks they're the smartest person in the room when their ****ty arguments rely on primarily on QoC.

It's embarrassing

There's nothing smart about it. It's actually very simple - if one player plays against much softer competition than the other, then his stats have to be a whole helluva lot better to even start to make the comparison. This is obvious stuff here, not rocket science.

And it's so easy to see it in the numbers - Sanheim has better numbers than Ghost who has better numbers than Provorov, yet that's the reverse order of which of them is better than the other. Their stats are skewed due to quality of competition, and it's just silly to ignore it.

well wait a sec - it's definitely smarter than looking at plus/minus. so yes, I'm smarter than all the people in the room looking at plus/minus or goals against.

 

[whitstifier]

There's nothing smart about it. It's actually very simple - if one player plays against much softer competition than the other, then his stats have to be a whole helluva lot better to even start to make the comparison. This is obvious stuff here, not rocket science.

And it's so easy to see it in the numbers - Sanheim has better numbers than Ghost who has better numbers than Provorov, yet that's the reverse order of which of them is better than the other. Their stats are skewed due to quality of competition, and it's just silly to ignore it.

well wait a sec - it's definitely smarter than looking at plus/minus. so yes, I'm smarter than all the people in the room looking at plus/minus or goals against.

Yes, about as obvious as more oZS translating linearly to more points...

 

[Jray42]

This thread is still going? I got out of this abomination like 10 pages ago

 

[Sasso09]

Putting up better possession numbers than any ofnthe Flyers top 4, in MUCH tougher minutes, is the opposite of drowning.

All you have is possession and QoC vs 30 other stats.

You legitimately aren't capable of admitting when you're wrong, your type is super annoying

 

[Devils Dominion]

Not close. Gost

 

[zeke]

All you have is possession and QoC vs 30 other stats.

You legitimately aren't capable of admitting when you're wrong, your type is super annoying

All your stats say that Ghost is better than Provorov. My stats say that provorov is better than Ghost.

Who do you think is better?

 

[mja]

All your stats say that Ghost is better than Provorov. My stats say that provorov is better than Ghost.

Who do you think is better?

Since they've been a pair and this season in general? Ghost, and I think that would be pretty much the consensus opinion among Flyers fans.

 

[mja]

What's the relevance of this?

That zeke loves and has always loved to tap every single stat he can find (no matter how weak) to support his preconceived idea (which is uniquely that Leafs player x is better than non-Leafs player y), while blithely dismissing those stats (no matter how strong) that challenge his preconceived ideas , and tries to muscle through "wins" through sheer arrogance. There's no doubt of a mountain of embarrassingly wrong zeke posts if anyone ever cared enough to mine it for material.

But more than anything, I was just baiting zeke. Spoiler alert: it worked.

Let's be real - you looked up all those numbers and then gulped a bit at how close they actually were, eh?

All that time spent a decade ago mocking leaf fans for daring to compare their 24th overall pick to your 11th overall pick.....and in the end one turns out to be a career 60pt pace 2 way player and the other a 55pt pace 2 way player.

I'm surprsied you're enjoying the taste of all that egg on your face so much.

I never mocked Leafs fans, I only mocked you. I'm still mocking you.

Even in this thread, I haven't said a single negative thing about Rielly or Leafs fans. I've only responded to correct misconceptions of Ghost. I never even said anything negative about Steen back in the day either, just corrected your misconceptions of Carter (namely, that he wouldn't be a consistent 30 goal scorer).

And nice job on the fudging the numbers on Carter & Steen. Carter's actually been a 32 G 29 A 2 way player center/wing and Steen's been a 21 G 32 A 2 way wing/center. That's not close to being "similar".

There's someone with egg on their face, but it ain't me.

It's a fun comp, really. Unfortunatle corsica only goes back to 2007, so cuts lff the 1st 2yrs of their careers, but here goes since the 07/08 season:

Steen: 719gms, EV 14:17 (A qoc), 1.77p60, 52.9cf% (+1.7rel), 52.4xgf% (+1.5rel) / PP 2:41, 4.60p60 / PK 1:45
Carter: 742gms, EV 14:18 (A qoc), 2.05p60, 52.9cf% (+0.6rel), 53.3xgf% (+1.5rel) / PP 2:49, 4.87p60 / PK 1:37

Damn that's as close as it gets, Carter a tick better offensively, Steen a tick better possession, all under extremely, extremely similar usage.

Carter has 118 more goals and 85 more points than Steen in almost exactly the same number of games, not to mention far superior playoff production, and you're trying to make an argument with fancy stats.

zeke:

 

[zeke]

Since they've been a pair and this season in general? Ghost, and I think that would be pretty much the consensus opinion among Flyers fans.

Is this the consensus of flyers fans?

that ghost is better than provorov?

 

[zeke]

That zeke loves and has always loved to tap every single stat he can find (no matter how weak) to support his preconceived idea (which is uniquely that Leafs player x is better than non-Leafs player y), while blithely dismissing those stats (no matter how strong) that challenge his preconceived ideas , and tries to muscle through "wins" through sheer arrogance. There's no doubt of a mountain of embarrassingly wrong zeke posts if anyone ever cared enough to mine it for material.

But more than anything, I was just baiting zeke. Spoiler alert: it worked.



I never mocked Leafs fans, I only mocked you. I'm still mocking you.

Even in this thread, I haven't said a single negative thing about Rielly or Leafs fans. I've only responded to correct misconceptions of Ghost. I never even said anything negative about Steen back in the day either, just corrected your misconceptions of Carter (namely, that he wouldn't be a consistent 30 goal scorer).

And nice job on the fudging the numbers on Carter & Steen. Carter's actually been a 32 G 29 A 2 way player center/wing and Steen's been a 21 G 32 A 2 way wing/center. That's not close to being "similar".

There's someone with egg on their face, but it ain't me.



Carter has 118 more goals and 85 more points than Steen in almost exactly the same number of games, not to mention far superior playoff production, and you're trying to make an argument with fancy stats.

zeke:

heh. I love it.

you just went back over a decade to try and call me out for daring to compare steen to carter way back when, and both have had hilariously similar careers.

that's gotta hurt.

 

[Asnito]

It's been long lost I suppose in the post purges and forum switches over the years, but I distinctly recall getting into an extended argument with zeke probably exactly a decade ago where he pulled a million and one stats out of his ass in order to argue that Alex Steen was a better player than Jeff Carter, and that Jeff Carter wasn't going to be a consistent 30 goal scorer. This brings a smile to my face. I expect a decade hence remembering zeke's offerings in this thread will bring a similar smile.

I don't post often but his best was arguing Kulemin was as good as Giroux after 1.5 to 2 seasons because they had similar point totals.
Most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on these forums.

 

[whitstifier]

Is this the consensus of flyers fans?

that ghost is better than provorov?

Yep, it's pretty obvious

 

[Jray42]

Is this the consensus of flyers fans?

that ghost is better than provorov?

Has he played better than Provorov recently? Yes he has, and most if not all Flyers fans would agree.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

All your stats say that Ghost is better than Provorov. My stats say that provorov is better than Ghost.

Who do you think is better?

This Year? Ghost, easily... as great as Provorov is and will continue to be, I can say with confidence Ghost has been a top 10 defenseman in the league this year

 

[mja]

Is this the consensus of flyers fans?

that ghost is better than provorov?

I mean, you're literally responding to a post that said: "Since they've been a pair and this season in general? Ghost, and I think that would be pretty much the consensus opinion among Flyers fans."

Ghost has simply been the better defensive player on the pair this year. Frankly, Provorov's been sloppy at times and has made some mental errors with the puck. Now, who will be the better defensive player over their careers is a completely different question.

heh. I love it.

you just went back over a decade to try and call me out for daring to compare steen to carter way back when, and both have had hilariously similar careers.

that's gotta hurt.

This is the best you can do? Lame. C'mon, cite some obscure stat about how Steen is better than Carter at 5 vs. 5 relative to his team on the 3rd Tuesday of every month, and twice as good when there's a full moon and Jupiter is in retrograde during a year that ends in an odd number.

Carter vs. Steen is merely the last time that I recall I even bothered to get into it with you, and literally it's what I think of every time I see you go off the rails trying to make some convoluted argument that a Leafs player is better than a non-Leafs player (which is basically all you ever post about). I mean, you probably were one of the posters who kept throwing "47 points" in my face when I predicted that Giroux was going to be a PPG player who had 90+ point potential, but there were so very many of them that I cannot really recall.

I don't post often but his best was arguing Kulemin was as good as Giroux after 1.5 to 2 seasons because they had similar point totals.
Most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on these forums.

Zeke post using QoC and cherry-picked possession stats to demonstrate that Kulemin has indeed had a similar career to Giroux despite the nearly 400 point difference incoming!

 

[Tripod]

Is this the consensus of flyers fans?

that ghost is better than provorov?

You might be surprised by the results. Since they have been paired together, most have said Ghost has been the better Dman.

 

[ole ole]

Is this the consensus of flyers fans?

that ghost is better than provorov?

I think the consensus of most of the hockey world would consider Ghost better than both Provorov and Rielly.

 

[Asnito]

I mean, you're literally responding to a post that said: "Since they've been a pair and this season in general? Ghost, and I think that would be pretty much the consensus opinion among Flyers fans."

Ghost has simply been the better defensive player on the pair this year. Frankly, Provorov's been sloppy at times and has made some mental errors with the puck. Now, who will be the better defensive player over their careers is a completely different question.

This is the best you can do? Lame. C'mon, cite some obscure stat about how Steen is better than Carter at 5 vs. 5 relative to his team on the 3rd Tuesday of every month, and twice as good when there's a full moon and Jupiter is in retrograde during a year that ends in an odd number.

Carter vs. Steen is merely the last time that I recall I even bothered to get into it with you, and literally it's what I think of every time I see you go off the rails trying to make some convoluted argument that a Leafs player is better than a non-Leafs player (which is basically all you ever post about). I mean, you probably were one of the posters who kept throwing "47 points" in my face when I predicted that Giroux was going to be a PPG player who had 90+ point potential, but there were so very many of them that I cannot really recall.



Zeke post using QoC and cherry-picked possession stats to demonstrate that Kulemin has indeed had a similar career to Giroux despite the nearly 400 point difference incoming!

Nah this was years ago when Giroux was in his 2nd season. They had similar point totals so obviously Kulemin was just as good?
The only reason I remember it because it was so bizarre that somebody could look at both players and think they're equal .

 

[zeke]

I mean, you're literally responding to a post that said: "Since they've been a pair and this season in general? Ghost, and I think that would be pretty much the consensus opinion among Flyers fans."

Ghost has simply been the better defensive player on the pair this year. Frankly, Provorov's been sloppy at times and has made some mental errors with the puck. Now, who will be the better defensive player over their careers is a completely different question.

This is the best you can do? Lame. C'mon, cite some obscure stat about how Steen is better than Carter at 5 vs. 5 relative to his team on the 3rd Tuesday of every month, and twice as good when there's a full moon and Jupiter is in retrograde during a year that ends in an odd number.

Carter vs. Steen is merely the last time that I recall I even bothered to get into it with you, and literally it's what I think of every time I see you go off the rails trying to make some convoluted argument that a Leafs player is better than a non-Leafs player (which is basically all you ever post about). I mean, you probably were one of the posters who kept throwing "47 points" in my face when I predicted that Giroux was going to be a PPG player who had 90+ point potential, but there were so very many of them that I cannot really recall.

Zeke post using QoC and cherry-picked possession stats to demonstrate that Kulemin has indeed had a similar career to Giroux despite the nearly 400 point difference incoming!

The best I can do?

You literally went back over a decade to try and call me out.....using an example of a comp which I turned to be right on.

that's fantastic.

 

[zeke]

You might be surprised by the results. Since they have been paired together, most have said Ghost has been the better Dman.

well, that makes this more understandable, at least. At least you guys are being consistent. But this reminds me of leafs fans who were convinced gardiner was better than rielly under similar circumstances in recent years. or blues fans who thought Parayko or Shatty was better than pietro. or avs fans who thought barrie was better than EJ.

Personally I don't think that any hockey person is taking ghost over provorov even for right now, and I think you guys might look back on this and shake your heads a bit...but again, at least you guys are being consistent.

 

[PK16]

well, that makes this more understandable, at least. At least you guys are being consistent. But this reminds me of leafs fans who were convinced gardiner was better than rielly under similar circumstances in recent years. or blues fans who thought Parayko or Shatty was better than pietro. or avs fans who thought barrie was better than EJ.

Personally I don't think that any hockey person is taking ghost over provorov even for right now, and I think you guys might look back on this and shake your heads a bit...but again, at least you guys are being consistent.

Ghost has been the more impactful defenseman this year. It doesn’t mean that all Flyers fans would take him over Provorov moving forward. You’re twisting this into something else. At the end of the day, the comparison with Provorov is not really relevant. This is a comparison between Rielly and Ghost.

 

[zeke]

Ghost has been the more impactful defenseman this year. It doesn’t mean that all Flyers fans would take him over Provorov moving forward. You’re twisting this into something else. At the end of the day, the comparison with Provorov is not really relevant. This is a comparison between Rielly and Ghost.

like i said, i'm not even talking about going forward. i'm talking about right now.

and the comparison to provorov is relevant, because it takes all of our homer biases out of the analysis.

 

[PK16]

like i said, i'm not even talking about going forward. i'm talking about right now.

and the comparison to provorov is relevant, because it takes all of our homer biases out of the analysis.

This season, Ghost has been better than Provorov and Rielly.

 

[zeke]

Oh, and as to all the insults and accusations of cherry picking stats and being biased for the leafs and against the flyers.......

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/about-provorov.2165157/page-16#post-137820749

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...-leagues-best-young-d.2457987/#post-142496143

 

[Johno]

Ghost is awesome. Would love him on the Stars!