going forward: J.Hughes vs Stutzle vs Raymond (originally posted Feb 7, 22)

[Lou Sassole]

This happens in battles for space literally all the time, it’s just obviously not something that gets clipped for highlights.



You’ve never seen a player use a free hand to get around another? Seriously?

Parssinen here:

Fiala here:

Batherson behind the net here:

You want more, figure it out yourself.



I think that’s definitely a fair point to make, I just don’t think it’s fair to blame Brady for an unfortunate fall.



My guy, this happens in shinny at the outdoor rink. These battles for position happen all over the ice all the time.

Exactly, not sure what he's on about. Incidental contact, jockeying for position, happens all the time.

 

[Bileur]

The point is there should be zero intentional contact at an All-Star game, this isn't like Brady didn't see him and they collided. He reaches out and pulls the back of Hughes's jersey, while he isn't trying to hurt him or anything probably just trying to annoy his friend, he shouldn't have done it to begin with.
If this actually hurt Hughes (I don't think it did) I guarantee next time Brady keeps his hands to himself.

There’s also supposed to be zero intentional contact in soccer or in the NFL between DB’s and WR’s five yards past the line of scrimmage, using hands to battle for position nevertheless happens to some degree all the time.

Your argument isn’t based in the reality of how sports are played or officiated.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Please post the videos from the multitude of all star games where this play happens. I'll hang up and listen.

hockey is a contact sport. there is literally a penalty for holding in the rule book. a light tug on the jersey happens all the time. if you want to claim it doesn't you go ahead and post a game where it doesn't/

 

[McJedi]

It’s Hughes and it’s not even close. He’s already a star player.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

There’s also supposed to be zero intentional contact in soccer or in the NFL between DB’s and WR’s five yards past the line of scrimmage, using hands to battle for position nevertheless happens to some degree all the time.

Your argument isn’t based in the reality of how sports are played or officiated.

It's the All-Star game, how do you not understand that. They don't play by the same rules at the All-Star game.
Pretending this is a regular occurrence is certainly a way to go, I mean it's like heading down a one way street in the wrong direction, but it's a way to go.
How is an All-Star game officiated? Are you struggling to understand that an All-Star game isn't the same as a regular season game?

My suggestion to you is, buy a map because you're completely lost.

 

[Bileur]

It's the All-Star game, how do you not understand that. They don't play by the same rules at the All-Star game.
Pretending this is a regular occurrence is certainly a way to go, I mean it's like heading down a one way street in the wrong direction, but it's a way to go.
How is an All-Star game officiated? Are you struggling to understand that an All-Star game isn't the same as a regular season game?

My suggestion to you is, buy a map because you're completely lost.

Ah, we’ve reached the stage where we’re unable to make reasonable arguments and concessions so we resort to personal attacks.

Pretty clear who is out in left field here.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Ah, we’ve reached the stage where we’re unable to make reasonable arguments and concessions so we resort to personal attacks.

Pretty clear who is out in left field here.

No you’re contending that plays like this happen 100 times every All-Star game, this is blatantly wrong. It was a stupid play by a player messing with his buddy, unfortunately it may have resulted in an injury. Your desire to have your player have zero fault for his action is the issue. You want everyone to just say oops it was a hockey play gone wrong while ignoring the fact that this wasn’t in a regular game. It was at an All-Star game where the only thing they care about is not getting hurt.
If this happened in a regular season game, it would be an unfortunate play and a 2 minute minor for interference, but it wasn’t, it was a a just for fun game, where nobody is taking it too seriously.
I get that you like your player, but you’re way off base if you think this is a regular occurrence in All-Star games

 

[My3Sons]

hockey is a contact sport. there is literally a penalty for holding in the rule book. a light tug on the jersey happens all the time. if you want to claim it doesn't you go ahead and post a game where it doesn't/

You made the claim. The burden of proof applies to any claim not just the first one, I am not making any claim. Hence I bear no burden.

 

[dirtydanglez]

You made the claim. The burden of proof applies to any claim not just the first one, I am not making any claim. Hence I bear no burden.

if you dont disagree there is nothing to prove.

 

[Play]

It’s Hughes and it’s not even close. He’s already a star player.

Me and @Sens9292 are arguing Stutzle is in the same tier

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You don’t have the monopoly on playing hockey. Like I said, happens all the time on and off puck.

You’re right, I could see a ref calling that in 2023. It would be pretty weak but I could see it. I could also see a ref telling Hughes to get up and keep playing.

Again, I think saying pulled him down is pretty dramatic. He barely touched him.

We don’t have to have the same perception of the play.



I don’t think it makes sense to attribute fault for unfortunate results of innocuous contact. I usually reserve terms like some injured someone else when there is intention to do so.

We can agree to disagree.

He intentionally grabbed Hughes, that wasn't an accident. He didn't mean to hurt him, but if you do something reckless and something bad happens as a result, you are at fault.

If you run a red light and hit a pedestrian, you're at fault. Obviously you didn't intend to hit them, but you chose to run the light.

 

[dirtydanglez]

He intentionally grabbed Hughes, that wasn't an accident. He didn't mean to hurt him, but if you do something reckless and something bad happens as a result, you are at fault.

If you run a red light and hit a pedestrian, you're at fault. Obviously you didn't intend to hit them, but you chose to run the light.

no need to be dramatic. most people can agree hughes was barely touched.

this is more like trying to blame someone for a traffic accident because they were going 0.1mph over the limit.

 

[My3Sons]

if you dont disagree there is nothing to prove.

I’m agnostic. I’ll believe whoever actually supports their claim anything else is just an opinion and not a fact

 

[Bileur]

He intentionally grabbed Hughes, that wasn't an accident. He didn't mean to hurt him, but if you do something reckless and something bad happens as a result, you are at fault.

If you run a red light and hit a pedestrian, you're at fault. Obviously you didn't intend to hit them, but you chose to run the light.

It’s not reckless though, it’s an everyday event with an unfortunate result. It’s more like running a yellow. Yeah, ideally you’d avoid doing it but lots of people do it all the time.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It’s not reckless though, it’s an everyday event with an unfortunate result. It’s more like running a yellow. Yeah, ideally you’d avoid doing it but lots of people do it all the time.

Holding/Interference is not a legal play in hockey.

 

[dirtydanglez]

I’m agnostic. I’ll believe whoever actually supports their claim anything else is just an opinion and not a fact

just watch a game and come up with your own opinion. best course of action for you imo.

 

[Random Comment]

Me and @Sens9292 are arguing Stutzle is in the same tier

Pretty close. Hughes is more go go go, while Stutzle brings more grit. Both franchise players.

 

[SpezDispenser]

It’s Hughes and it’s not even close. He’s already a star player.

What do you mean it's not even close? Stützle had a bit of a rough start, moved to C for the first time in his nhl career and still notched 90 points - only 9 less than Hughes (and 4 less goals).

If that's not close, wtf is lol

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What do you mean it's not even close? Stützle had a bit of a rough start, moved to C for the first time in his nhl career and still notched 90 points - only 9 less than Hughes (and 4 less goals).

If that's not close, wtf is lol

Anyone saying it's not close is out to lunch.

 

[bert]

I never thought it was an intent to injure, I think he was just trying to mess around with his buddy. But it's pretty clearly not a hockey play, he grabbed him by the back of the collar with his free hand and pulled him backwards while Hughes was turning, and the puck was nowhere near them. 999 out of 1,000, that play doesn't result in an injury, but unfortunately Hughes wasn't expecting contact (it was an all star game, after all) and fell awkwardly.

I agree it's shit luck, but it doesn't mean it's not Tkachuk's fault. There was no need to do what he did, and if he had not done that, Hughes would not have been hurt.

Regardless, the whole point I was trying to make is that comparing their point totals from January onwards is a bit misleading.

Before ASG injury:
49gp 33g 64p +16

Next 6 weeks post injury:
18gp 4g 17p -9

This is a similar thing that I was arguing about people calling Eichel's season disappointing, as he played through an injury right around the same time Hughes did. But if you looked at his play while healthy, you could see how dominant (and important) he was for Vegas. The same is true of Hughes.

For the record, t's always been a tossup between these two for me. Before this year, I argued that Stutzle was going to end up just a hair better than Hughes. But with the way Hughes played before getting injured, and the way he was playing once he fully recovered, I now think he's got a slight advantage.

Durability is a skill.

You do understand this may happen 100 times a game, but should happen zero times in a non contact All-Star game, Hughes isn't expecting contact, because there should be no contact.

Nobody was asking for a suspension or calling it intent to injure or a cheap shot, just quite simply something that should never have happened in an All-Star game. You're acting like this was a regular game played with the normal rules, when in fact it's not.

Guys do this to each other in practice. Relax.

 

[bert]

It’s Hughes and it’s not even close. He’s already a star player.

Only one player has had a better d + 3 season than Stutzle just had since Stamkos in 2011 and its McDavid. Stutzle just had 39 goals ans 90 points. He is a start already. Just a terrible post on your end.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Durability is a skill.


Guys do this to each other in practice. Relax.

I have no idea why it's so hard for people to understand, practice means something, regular season games mean something. They are supposed to go a lot harder in those. You're not supposed to do shit in an All-Star game.

If this happened anywhere else, and I mean anywhere it'd be 100% fine, but you don't do it there.


It's literally the only problem I have with it, I don't think it's malicious or even close to an attempt to injure anyone, just not the right place for something like that.

People keep just glossing over the fact that it's an All-Star game and saying it's a nothing play blah blah blah. When in fact it's a nothing play that should never have happened in the setting it did.

I can assure you Brady won't be doing something like that again in that setting.

 

[bert]

I have no idea why it's so hard for people to understand, practice means something, regular season games mean something. They are supposed to go a lot harder in those. You're not supposed to do shit in an All-Star game.

If this happened anywhere else, and I mean anywhere it'd be 100% fine, but you don't do it there.


It's literally the only problem I have with it, I don't think it's malicious or even close to an attempt to injure anyone, just not the right place for something like that.

People keep just glossing over the fact that it's an All-Star game and saying it's a nothing play blah blah blah. When in fact it's a nothing play that should never have happened in the setting it did.

I can assure you Brady won't be doing something like that again in that setting.

Lol oh you're such an authority. Where did you play? Ive played in all star games and way worse stuff goes on. Maybe if he wasnt so fragile it wouldnt be an issue.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Lol oh you're such an authority. Where did you play? Ive played in all star games and way worse stuff goes on. Maybe if he wasnt so fragile it wouldnt be an issue.

I'm done talking to you, you've clearly got an agenda and I don't care enough to fight an expert like you LMAO.

 

[bert]

I'm done talking to you, you've clearly got an agenda and I don't care enough to fight an expert like you LMAO.

I dont have an agenda you are acting like an authority on a joke of a play that had an unlucky/poor outcome. This stuff happens all the time, if you played you'd understand.