going forward: J.Hughes vs Stutzle vs Raymond (originally posted Feb 7, 22)

[HugeInTheShire]

Of course I saw it. It was a nothing play that happens 100 times a game. If you get injured on one of those, it’s shit luck, but it’s not the other guy’s fault. “Pulled him down”, again is a bit much.



Pretty basic battle and Hughes went flying and lost his balance. Maybe it’s just semantics but I don’t see any ill intent on Tkachuk’s part there. He’s just trying to get position.

I might just getting to the grumpy old man stage in my life, but this reminds me of being annoyed at guys getting penalties for slashing a stick out of the hands. Sometimes there’s a blatant slash and sometimes the other guy needs to be aware and hold on to his stick, or in this case, keep your balance and stay on your feet.

Pretending it was some kind of intent to injure or cheap shot or that it should have been considered for discipline by DOPS like some were saying (not necessarily you, I don’t know what your take was then) at the time is what is pure fiction.

You do understand this may happen 100 times a game, but should happen zero times in a non contact All-Star game, Hughes isn't expecting contact, because there should be no contact.

Nobody was asking for a suspension or calling it intent to injure or a cheap shot, just quite simply something that should never have happened in an All-Star game. You're acting like this was a regular game played with the normal rules, when in fact it's not.

 

[dirtydanglez]

You do understand this may happen 100 times a game, but should happen zero times in a non contact All-Star game, Hughes isn't expecting contact, because there should be no contact.

Nobody was asking for a suspension or calling it intent to injure or a cheap shot, just quite simply something that should never have happened in an All-Star game. You're acting like this was a regular game played with the normal rules, when in fact it's not.

what?

what next, no shooting up high on the goalies?

 

[HugeInTheShire]

what?

what next, no shooting up high on the goalies?

What part are you having trouble with?

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Hughes easily. Strutlze is overrated

 

[dirtydanglez]

What part are you having trouble with?

the part where you think there should be no contact.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

the part where you think there should be no contact.

The All-Star game? It's not a regular game, watch one some time.

 

[dirtydanglez]

The All-Star game? It's not a regular game, watch one some time.

what one should i watch where no one even gets grazed?

 

[HugeInTheShire]

what one should i watch where no one even gets grazed?

That wasn't an accidental grazing, it's not malicious either but people aren't prepared for someone tugging them backwards in an All-Star game.
I honestly can't believe people think this is a regular thing in these kind of games.

 

[dirtydanglez]

That wasn't an accidental grazing, it's not malicious either but people aren't prepared for someone tugging them backwards in an All-Star game.
I honestly can't believe people think this is a regular thing in these kind of games.

its hockey, there is contact. even in all star games.

i dont know how this is controversial to you.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

its hockey, there is contact. even in all star games.

i dont know how this is controversial to you.

Not controversial at all, these plays are not normal in an All-Star game.
You seem to want to speak for me though so let me make a few things abundantly clear.
#1 This isn't a hockey play in a regular game, it was a stupid thing a player did in the moment
#2 I don't think this actually injured Hughes (may have tweaked some existing injury but that's it)
#3 This is completely irrelevant now and I have no idea why I'm still talking to you about it.

 

[Korpse]

Hughes easily. Strutlze is overrated

So overrated. Only has 87 career points and Sonny Milano had 6 points less.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Not controversial at all, these plays are not normal in an All-Star game.
You seem to want to speak for me though so let me make a few things abundantly clear.
#1 This isn't a hockey play in a regular game, it was a stupid thing a player did in the moment
#2 I don't think this actually injured Hughes (may have tweaked some existing injury but that's it)
#3 This is completely irrelevant now and I have no idea why I'm still talking to you about it.

yea this sort of stuff is normal. the only abnormal this is that hughes got injured on the play. just not sure why you thought this was some egregious play.

 

[Kevinsane]

Anyone thinking Stutzle is overrated needs to check back here at the end of next season.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Of course I saw it. It was a nothing play that happens 100 times a game. If you get injured on one of those, it’s shit luck, but it’s not the other guy’s fault. “Pulled him down”, again is a bit much.



Pretty basic battle and Hughes went flying and lost his balance. Maybe it’s just semantics but I don’t see any ill intent on Tkachuk’s part there. He’s just trying to get position.

I might just getting to the grumpy old man stage in my life, but this reminds me of being annoyed at guys getting penalties for slashing a stick out of the hands. Sometimes there’s a blatant slash and sometimes the other guy needs to be aware and hold on to his stick, or in this case, keep your balance and stay on your feet.

Pretending it was some kind of intent to injure or cheap shot or that it should have been considered for discipline by DOPS like some were saying (not necessarily you, I don’t know what your take was then) at the time is what is pure fiction.

Post a single video or clip of this type of play happening last season

Then when you find one, find me ten more

If its so common it should be extremely easy to do

yea this sort of stuff is normal. the only abnormal this is that hughes got injured on the play. just not sure why you thought this was some egregious play.

You can join in on the fun

Go ahead and post some videos or clips of this type of play happening in the 2022-2023 season

It shouldnt take longer than your lunch break

 

[dirtydanglez]

Post a single video or clip of this type of play happening last season

Then when you find one, find me ten more

If its so common it should be extremely easy to do


You can join in on the fun

Go ahead and post some videos or clips of this type of play happening in the 2022-2023 season

It shouldnt take longer than your lunch break

just watch a hockey game lol.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

just watch a hockey game lol.

That isnt how the burden of proof works

But thatd have required me to expect you even attempt it; which I knew wasnt going to happen because its entirely fabricated

You can move on now were done with you

 

[Bouboumaster]

Hilarious thread

 

[dirtydanglez]

That isnt how the burden of proof works

But thatd have required me to expect you even attempt it; which I knew wasnt going to happen because its entirely fabricated

You can move on now were done with you

this is exactly how the burden of proof works. if your gonna claim that this doesnt happen in hockey, prove it.

 

[Bileur]

just watch a hockey game lol.

This happens in battles for space literally all the time, it’s just obviously not something that gets clipped for highlights.

Post a single video or clip of this type of play happening last season

Then when you find one, find me ten more

If its so common it should be extremely easy to do

You’ve never seen a player use a free hand to get around another? Seriously?

Parssinen here:

Fiala here:

Batherson behind the net here:

You want more, figure it out yourself.

I never thought it was an intent to injure, I think he was just trying to mess around with his buddy. But it's pretty clearly not a hockey play, he grabbed him by the back of the collar with his free hand and pulled him backwards while Hughes was turning, and the puck was nowhere near them. 999 out of 1,000, that play doesn't result in an injury, but unfortunately Hughes wasn't expecting contact (it was an all star game, after all) and fell awkwardly.

I agree it's shit luck, but it doesn't mean it's not Tkachuk's fault. There was no need to do what he did, and if he had not done that, Hughes would not have been hurt.

Regardless, the whole point I was trying to make is that comparing their point totals from January onwards is a bit misleading.

Before ASG injury:
49gp 33g 64p +16

Next 6 weeks post injury:
18gp 4g 17p -9

This is a similar thing that I was arguing about people calling Eichel's season disappointing, as he played through an injury right around the same time Hughes did. But if you looked at his play while healthy, you could see how dominant (and important) he was for Vegas. The same is true of Hughes.

For the record, t's always been a tossup between these two for me. Before this year, I argued that Stutzle was going to end up just a hair better than Hughes. But with the way Hughes played before getting injured, and the way he was playing once he fully recovered, I now think he's got a slight advantage.

I think that’s definitely a fair point to make, I just don’t think it’s fair to blame Brady for an unfortunate fall.

You do understand this may happen 100 times a game, but should happen zero times in a non contact All-Star game, Hughes isn't expecting contact, because there should be no contact.

Nobody was asking for a suspension or calling it intent to injure or a cheap shot, just quite simply something that should never have happened in an All-Star game. You're acting like this was a regular game played with the normal rules, when in fact it's not.

My guy, this happens in shinny at the outdoor rink. These battles for position happen all over the ice all the time.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

My guy, this happens in shinny at the outdoor rink. These battles for position happen all over the ice all the time.

My guy, this was at an All-Star game they don't usually care that much about getting position on a player. If you think they play by the same rules in the regular season or even at the ODR as they do in the All-Star game, you're completely lost.
By your rationale if a player is coming down the ice with his head down at the All-Star game, light him the F up! It's just a game.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You’ve never seen a player use a free hand to get around another? Seriously?

Of course I have seen that, I'd done it myself for 20+ years. But that's not what he did, and anyone who's played any amount of hockey know that.

Using a free hand to protect the puck or while engaged in a puck battle not the same thing as using your free hand to grab the back of an opponent's collar and pull back/down. Brady was neither protecting the puck nor fighting for the puck. He deliberately held/interfered with Hughes, which is a penalty, not a hockey play.

Use your free hand to create space/win battles. Don't yank guys down from behind, especially when the puck isn't in the vicinity.

I think that’s definitely a fair point to make, I just don’t think it’s fair to blame Brady for an unfortunate fall.

How is it not his fault? Had he not pulled on his collar like that, nothing happens.

My guy, this happens in shinny at the outdoor rink. These battles for position happen all over the ice all the time..

Neither guy had the puck, Tkachuk used his free hand to hold / interfere with Hughes. That's a penalty, not a hockey play. And it was completely unnecessary in an All Star Game.

 

[My3Sons]

this is exactly how the burden of proof works. if your gonna claim that this doesnt happen in hockey, prove it.

Please post the videos from the multitude of all star games where this play happens. I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Bileur]

My guy, this was at an All-Star game they don't usually care that much about getting position on a player. If you think they play by the same rules in the regular season or even at the ODR as they do in the All-Star game, you're completely lost.
By your rationale if a player is coming down the ice with his head down at the All-Star game, light him the F up! It's just a game.

Nobody is saying guys should get lit up in the all star game but that’s also not what happened. It’s not like Brady choke slammed him.

It was barely any contact and Hughes stumbled.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Nobody is saying guys should get lit up in the all star game but that’s also not what happened. It’s not like Brady choke slammed him.

It was barely any contact and Hughes stumbled.

The point is there should be zero intentional contact at an All-Star game, this isn't like Brady didn't see him and they collided. He reaches out and pulls the back of Hughes's jersey, while he isn't trying to hurt him or anything probably just trying to annoy his friend, he shouldn't have done it to begin with.
If this actually hurt Hughes (I don't think it did) I guarantee next time Brady keeps his hands to himself.

 

[Bileur]

Of course I have seen that, I'd done it myself for 20+ years. But that's not what he did, and anyone who's played any amount of hockey know that.

Using a free hand to protect the puck or while engaged in a puck battle not the same thing as using your free hand to grab the back of an opponent's collar and pull back/down. Brady was neither protecting the puck nor fighting for the puck. He deliberately held/interfered with Hughes, which is a penalty, not a hockey play.

Use your free hand to create space/win battles. Don't yank guys down from behind, especially when the puck isn't in the vicinity.

You don’t have the monopoly on playing hockey. Like I said, happens all the time on and off puck.

You’re right, I could see a ref calling that in 2023. It would be pretty weak but I could see it. I could also see a ref telling Hughes to get up and keep playing.

Again, I think saying pulled him down is pretty dramatic. He barely touched him.

We don’t have to have the same perception of the play.

How is it not his fault? Had he not pulled on his collar like that, nothing happens.

Neither guy had the puck, Tkachuk used his free hand to hold / interfere with Hughes. That's a penalty, not a hockey play. And it was completely unnecessary in an All Star Game.

I don’t think it makes sense to attribute fault for unfortunate results of innocuous contact. I usually reserve terms like some injured someone else when there is intention to do so.

We can agree to disagree.