Give GMJR a Grade (cumulative)

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

You're putting too much emphasis on injuries regarding the players we're talking about.

Regardless, I'm glad you finally see it my way. The most important thing here is that I was right and you are wrong.

And you're blaming JR for them. I feel like I'm talking with a child.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

And you're blaming JR for them. I feel like I'm talking with a child.

GM acquires players to play for the team. When the players he acquired don't perform to their expectations who are you going to blame? (besides Morehouse of course)

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I genuinely don't understand how people can be unhappy with JR's moves, outside of Despres and Winnik. Yes, again, for the thousandth time, those two moves were horrific and bad--respectively--but what else has he done that people would like to fault him for?

Perron for the 1st rounder? The odds that the first rounder would help this team any time within the next several years is next to nil. Perron's been a hard-working, highly skilled top six winger for his entire career. I think people put way too much stock into a couple of months of admittedly terrible play. The entire team, top to bottom, was absolute garbage for several months. If you think that's an appropriate time to evaluate players, so be it, but that seems idiotic to me. A ton of you would've traded Neal for peanuts right after his atrocious start on this team.

Lapierre for Goc? Pretty insignificant move. We may have lost a bit in possession for a boost in speed and snarl.

The Kessel deal? We traded a 1st, who again wouldn't have done anything for this team for years. A 3rd, which is a crapshoot at best. We traded Kapanen, who was promising, but still at least a year, maybe two away. Harrington was a decent defensive prospect, but he's likely only ever going to be a safe bottom pairing guy, if that. We landed one of the best wingers in the league, who is locked up at as good a price as you could ask for, for essentially the remainder of Sid and Geno's tenure here.

The Sutter deal? We traded a perennial underwhelming 3C and a 3rd rounder for an upgrade in Bonino, a wildcard type of guy in Clendening, and a 2nd rounder. We also managed to get a great return for Sutter before it was too late, contract-wise.

We signed Fehr, a pretty good bottom-six player who comes at a pretty insignificant price tag.

We drafted several highly skilled forwards, one of which (Sprong) seems to have the talent to be a steal as a 2nd rounder.

We traded Bortuzzo, a bottom-pairing, borderline NHLer for Cole, who seems to be a bit of an upgrade. We lose a bit of snarl, but we get a better player overall.

Ehrhoff? It was a low risk move that could've paid off. I still think the Ehrhoff signing was an insurance play in preparation to move Martin. Injuries prevented that. Ehrhoff's season here was pretty abysmal, but it was a 1-year deal for just a bit more than Scuderi makes. Not really something to be upset about.

Neal for Hornqvist + Spaling? This is another move I could understand people having issues with. For a team as desperate for winger help to move a guy with as much skill and offensive ability as Neal, it was a shock. I would still make the move though. We got a guy who can score a pretty respectable amount of goals (I'd say he's good for 30+ if healthy), and his game is more adept for playoff hockey. All the while bringing a skillset we've been wholly lacking for years. Hornqvist's net-front presence is hands down the best in the league, and his hands in tight are incredible as well. He's not the best skater, but he's always working his ass off, and that's why I think we went out and got him. As talented as Neal is, he's prone to lazy, idiotic, ineffective play. Bottom line, we wanted a shift and we got it. I'm still happy with Hornqvist, he's phenomenal.

At the very most, JR's made 4 questionable to horrendous moves; Neal<->Hornqvist (still think it was good for us), Ehrhoff (low-risk, didn't work out), Winnik (overpayment for a pretty ineffective player for us), and Despres (horrendous). The amount of good has outweighed the bad pretty significantly, even if the Despres deal was terrible and the Winnik deal was a pretty big mistake.

 

[DawgPens]

One thing people really haven't discussed thus far is JR's signing of HCMJ. I know the jury is still out on him as an NHL coach, but the lack of a home run HC hire probably should tarnish our overall evaluations of GMJR a bit.

 

[Asuna]

One thing people really haven't discussed thus far is JR's signing of HCMJ. I know the jury is still out on him as an NHL coach, but the lack of a home run HC hire probably should tarnish our overall evaluations of GMJR a bit.

Who was the home run coach we could have hired at the time?

 

[Penguinator]

One thing people really haven't discussed thus far is JR's signing of HCMJ. I know the jury is still out on him as an NHL coach, but the lack of a home run HC hire probably should tarnish our overall evaluations of GMJR a bit.

Last season isn't exactly the best one to judge MJ with that injury bug.

To a lesser extent, lack of discipline & war on refs didn't help either.

Let's see what he can do with a healthier & more disciplined roster.

Also, it was the Pens 1st season on a new system after having played what seemed like forever on the old one.

Tocchet on the other hand...

 

[systemsgo]

B+

No thanks to Despres, if not for the Kessel trade, it'd be way lower.

The way I see it is that a lot of his good moves prior to Kessel were shorter term (the longest being Perron - signed for 1.5 seasons), while Despres was a player we could have kept long term 8+. Whatever good he had done before was next to wiped out.

Last season isn't exactly the best one to judge MJ with that injury bug.

To a lesser extent, lack of discipline & war on refs didn't help either.

Let's see what he can do with a healthier & more disciplined roster.

Also, it was the Pens 1st season on a new system after having played what seemed like forever on the old one.

Tocchet on the other hand...

I don't blame him for the injuries, but I feel like he was the reason the Penguins ended up such a boring team to watch. He did a pretty decent job in the playoffs though.

 

[Penguinator]

B+

No thanks to Despres, if not for the Kessel trade, it'd be way lower.

The way I see it is that a lot of his good moves prior to Kessel were shorter term (the longest being Perron - signed for 1.5 seasons), while Despres was a player we could have kept long term 8+. Whatever good he had done before was next to wiped out.



I don't blame him for the injuries, but I feel like he was the reason the Penguins ended up such a boring team to watch. He did a pretty decent job in the playoffs though.

I do blame him for us not being able to come back or keep a lead.

That "let's go full D" BS just doesn't work & makes no ****ing sense for a possession system.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Honestly the old man hasn't done that bad of a job. In his time here so far he has built a deeper lineup and finally this year has gotten out and got us a pure goal scorer.

The Perron trade at the time it was made was a no brainer, at the draft one could argue that it was bad but again at the time he made the move it was a good one.

The Despres trade was brutal, was he forced to make that deal who knows, but it's definitely a horrible one.

I like everything he has done so far this off season, the only thing missing is moving Scuderi and Kunitz which he apparently tried but was denied because of the NTC in Scuderi's contract. Can't wait for the season to start

 

[systemsgo]

I do blame him for us not being able to come back or keep a lead.

That "let's go full D" BS just doesn't work & makes no ****ing sense for a possession system.

I don't even know what was with the team last season. It could be the coach, but it just as likely could be the players. It was like the team had no drive when they were trailing outside of a few players. And for all that we crap on Sutter, he was one of the few who tried (even though he sucks). That CBJ game where Sid fought Dubinsky and the rest of the team just played like they barely gave a **** still pisses me off.

 

[joeyjake5]

No higher than B+. Great moves after July 1, Kessel, Bones, Plots and Fehr additions.

This is offset by giving away SD for garbage. And Keeping more garbage on the team by not buying out scuds. This team would look great with SD and $2MM more in cap space minus Scuds and BIG BEN, a great defender as Billy G. referred to him.

 

[DawgPens]

Who was the home run coach we could have hired at the time?

Good point. At the same time, I don't think Rutherford managed the head coaching search as well as he could have. There was the delay in firing Bylsma, and during that period of time (if I remember correctly) Trotz took the Capitals' HC position. I won't argue that he would have been a home run hire, but Trotz IS a proven, successful coach, and he seems to be doing well in Washington (where many others have failed). Then we had what looked to be public rejection of two offers by other HC candidates before we settled on Mike Johnston.

Overall, I think people are being very fair to JR here. He's had some big wins (e.g., Kessel), some big trade failures (e.g., Despres), and some moves in between. But hiring the current HC is also on him, and I don't see that as a huge win at this point. Not a disaster, but not a big plus either. I think a grade of A- or B+ is fair, but I lean more towards the B+ side due to the process he used to arrive at a final HC choice.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm the biggest Despres fan here, and it was not JR's call. Not his final say, not his initial say. I mean, he didn't fight it, but he's he supposed to do?

I mean I agree. My point is that how do you determine which moves to give JR props for versus which ones to give him a pass on? Should he get credit for Plots or Fitzy?

In general, I am going to be consistent and hold JR accountable for all hockey transactions.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'll try to explain this slowly for you. There is a big difference between a move that looked good at the time not working out as well as planned because of injuries and a move that was looked bad when it was made.

Again, blaming JR for not seeing the rash of injuries the team would endure at the end of the season is ****ing stupid.

meh you are giving JR too much of a pass. GM's are supposed to build teams with an eye to the future. They have to project and forecast how the moves will work out. JR made the same mistake mid season that Shero did. He projected this team as a serious contender and made short sighted decisions. Regardless of injuries, that team wasn't winning a Cup. He shouldn't have made the Despres or Winnik trades. Maybe his hands were tied on Despres. Who knows, but I am going to judge him for all hockey moves made unless we have concrete evidence that he fought the trade and lost by other people in the organization.

 

[Asuna]

Overall, I think people are being very fair to JR here. He's had some big wins (e.g., Kessel), some big trade failures (e.g., Despres), and some moves in between. But hiring the current HC is also on him, and I don't see that as a huge win at this point. Not a disaster, but not a big plus either. I think a grade of A- or B+ is fair, but I lean more towards the B+ side due to the process he used to arrive at a final HC choice.

I agree. Johnston was very iffy last year....to the point of bad. But he seems like an adaptable guy, so I hope he can adjust some things for this year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Last year seemed like a bit of a cluster, in general. Which is to be expected. Lots of upheaval. But I feel like they didn't anticipate it as well as they could have and I feel like communication and a solid plan were lacking.

I give JR a "B." Obviously the Despres trade was a kick to the teeth (especially when you look at what would make the current roster near-complete) and the Winnik trade was inadvisable. And though overall I'm fine with the Neal trade... Spaling was NOT the extra to go for in that deal. Also... while I'm alright giving a bit more rope to the HC to see what he can do (though not one particular element of his staff)... I am not terribly convinced he can hack it. But that's more of a "pending" mark for/against JR and his management team.

Everything else has been mostly-great. Surprisingly so, considering JR was almost universally pegged as burned out at best and incompetent at worst before his arrival, here. Myself included.

The thing muddying the waters a bit is that we really don't know how the power structure is set up. And how decisions are truly arrived at. I get the feeling things were a lot more loosy-goosy and entrusted to his underlings, last season... granting them a large degree of autonomy. Perhaps this was done in the interest of evaluation. This offseason has had a decidedly different feel, IMO.

 

[Pete Gas]

I think JR has more than made up for the Despres trade

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Eh... I think that's debatable.

You don't really ever make up for something that needless and petty. You just learn from it and move on. Like I said... the thing that makes it particularly grating is when you look at the team they are putting together for next season and realize that one Simon Despres would really help solidify the blueline.

If he were still here instead of that pylon Lovejoy... I seriously doubt anyone would be batting around the idea of bringing in Franson. Which is a pretty awful idea.

I understand that homerun deals like landing Kessel and ridding themselves of Sutter go a long way towards improving the team and bolstering the fans' confidence in the management group. And maybe I'm just splitting hairs, here... but "make up" implies, to me, that the damage has been undone. And it hasn't.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Eh... I think that's debatable.

You don't really ever make up for something that needless and petty. You just learn from it and move on. Like I said... the thing that makes it particularly grating is when you look at the team we are putting together for next season and realize that one Simon Despres would really help solidify the blueline.

If he were still here instead of that pylon Lovejoy... I seriously doubt anyone would be batting around the idea of bringing in Franson. Which is a pretty awful idea.

I understand that homerun deals like landing Kessel and ridding themselves of Sutter go a long way towards improving the team and bolstering the fans' confidence in the management group. And maybe I'm just splitting hairs, here... but "make up" implies, to me, that the damage has been undone. And it hasn't.

I'm going to state the Pens moved away from two of their biggest penalized players.

Downie and Despres. Despres during the season and Downie in the off-season. The Pens were getting crushed by penalties. Lovejoy wasn't known for taking those, and that alone is worth something.

Maybe some should research/weigh what he brought good to the team and how much his penalties negated what good he did?

I'd say those weighed in heavily. But nobody speaks of them, he's void of warts by the way most talk of him. He's always had warts.

I'll always stick to the return was bad, not that trading him was bad.

Lovejoy is a bad return, but he serves a purpose if the teams healthy by not sitting in the box costing them goals/games.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Nobody speaks of them because it's a hilariously tiny quibble in comparison with the rest of what he brings to the table when put in the right role, given proper direction and not bucked down the roster immediately after screwing up. Ask Anaheim.

That you even bother bringing it up tells me you are digging deep.

Lovejoy doesn't have "penalty issues" because he's a total milquetoast. What a terrific tradeoff!

 

[drpepper]

I'm going to state the Pens moved away from two of their biggest penalized players.

Downie and Despres. Despres during the season and Downie in the off-season. The Pens were getting crushed by penalties. Lovejoy wasn't known for taking those, and that alone is worth something.

Maybe some should research/weigh what he brought good to the team and how much his penalties negated what good he did?

I'd say those weighed in heavily. But nobody speaks of them, he's void of warts by the way most talk of him. He's always had warts.

I'll always stick to the return was bad, not that trading him was bad.

Lovejoy is a bad return, but he serves a purpose if the teams healthy by not sitting in the box costing them goals/games.

Instead Lovejoy can be on the ice leaving Tavares wide open to score, screening Fleury, and being completely incompetent moving the puck costing them games and goals 5v5 just by being terrible.

Lovejoy is a down grade on the ice in every way such that Despres in the box is worth more than Lovejoy hands down.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Nobody speaks of them because it's a hilariously tiny quibble in comparison with the rest of what he brings to the table when put in the right role, given proper direction and not bucked down the roster immediately after screwing up. Ask Anaheim.

That you even bother bringing it up tells me you are digging deep.

And you are going to use the tiniest sample size of the playoffs where they called little in as proof I guess.

I said this stuff well back when the trade was made and people didn't want to speak of it because it went against what everyone felt about the trade. Being mad.

Digging deep...? it's is more like some just want to turn a blind eye. You all have.

 

[drpepper]

And you are going to use the tiniest sample size of the playoffs where they called little in as proof I guess.

I said this stuff well back when the trade was made and people didn't want to speak of it because it went against what everyone felt about the trade. Being mad.

Digging deep...? it's is more like some just want to turn a blind eye. You all have.

It's more like Despres with penalty issues is a minor problem compared to Lovejoy's inability to skate, to puck handle, to pass, to cover players, to be in a good position, to have good gap, etc.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Instead Lovejoy can be on the ice leaving Tavares wide open to score, screening Fleury, and being completely incompetent moving the puck costing them games and goals 5v5 just by being terrible.

Lovejoy is a down grade on the ice in every way such that Despres in the box is worth more than Lovejoy hands down.

Are we talking Lovejoy in a top 4 role being miscast due to injuries?

I'm willing to bet it is.

I'm obviously touching a nerve, nobody talk bad about Despres.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Keep on fightin' the good fight, I guess!