Injury Report: Girardi - Swollen Knee (DTD)

[JohnC]

Larry Brooks is doing an AMA on Reddit today

 

[eco's bones]

If you're extremely sick but decide to show up to the office anyway and take on all your normal duties, then make a handful of huge mistakes that cost your company a lot of money, you're not going to get a pat on the back from your boss and a standing ovation from the office. They're going to be annoyed and tell you next time to just call in sick.

I get that it's a brave thing for Girardi to do. To play through pain. But it's also a selfish thing to do. He's hurting the team, and what would really be worth applauding is him swallowing his pride and sitting out for the betterment of the team until he's back at 100%.

Not a great analogy. When I used to call in sick---the job never liked it. It didn't matter how sick I was or wasn't. Not everyone works in an office either and I never worried about whether my employer made money or not. That was their issue. My issue was to do my job (not someone else's) to the best of my abilities.

 

[Off Sides]

i hate to wish injury on a player but i wouldnt mind a LTIR for dan until his contract is up

You would, Long term injury is not a get out of jail free card, it allows teams to go over the cap by the amount of the injured players cap hits but that causes a multitude of other issues as well.

 

[Rangers in 7]

You would, Long term injury is not a get out of jail free card, it allows teams to go over the cap by the amount of the injured players cap hits but that causes a multitude of other issues as well.

we are so close to the cap ceiling anyone it wouldnt be a huge deal....LTIR is used across the league as a way to hide players huge salaries....look at horton in columbus or savard in boston who i believe is still on IR every year, hell i think pronger is still on it in philly

ultimately the only way girardi is gone is if he retires, no one will take that cap hit...ive said it since we signed him that i thought it was a horrible contract (since im new no one can corroborate)

 

[Ail]

Larry Brooks is doing an AMA on Reddit today

Lol at the Torts remark.

His subtle dig at John is nice, as well.

 

[we want cup]

If you're extremely sick but decide to show up to the office anyway and take on all your normal duties, then make a handful of huge mistakes that cost your company a lot of money, you're not going to get a pat on the back from your boss and a standing ovation from the office. They're going to be annoyed and tell you next time to just call in sick.

I get that it's a brave thing for Girardi to do. To play through pain. But it's also a selfish thing to do. He's hurting the team, and what would really be worth applauding is him swallowing his pride and sitting out for the betterment of the team until he's back at 100%.

Except this ignores the fact that the coaches are the ones who make the call about who plays and who doesn't. They see him in practice, they see him in warm-ups, they speak to the team doctors, etc. It's not like Girardi just shows up and AV has no choice but to put him on the ice. If Girardi's struggles are injury related then this is AV's fault for playing someone when he shouldn't have.

 

[Raspewtin]

Tough to take you seriously when you seem to truly believe Girardi hasn't been of any usefulness over the last 8 years.

I didn't say anything about the "last 8 years". There were points where Girardi was good. This isn't one of them.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Long term IR is in Girardi's future. He collects his money and the Rangers use his space on other players.

Oh my God stop with this nonsense. Girardi has never been inured before this and truth be told shouldn't have started the season until his Ankle was 100% healed. Girardi will be fine. Just a question of how long it takes him to heal.

 

[Raspewtin]

Oh my God stop with this nonsense. Girardi has never been inured before this and truth be told shouldn't have started the season until his Ankle was 100% healed. Girardi will be fine. Just a question of how long it takes him to heal.

Girardi has never missed games =/= Girardi has never been hurt.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Girardi has never missed games =/= Girardi has never been hurt.

Until Tuesday, Girardi had played in 682 of a possible 687 games (plus 108 of 108 in the playoffs) since his Rangers/NHL debut on Jan. 27, 2007. This marked only the fifth game of the defenseman’s career he had missed because of injury (he was rested in the 2013-14 season finale) and the first since Feb. 7, 2013.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Long term IR is in Girardi's future. He collects his money and the Rangers use his space on other players.

HFNYR be like

 

[Rangers in 7]

personally g has been useless for the past 3 years

 

[Off Sides]

we are so close to the cap ceiling anyone it wouldnt be a huge deal....LTIR is used across the league as a way to hide players huge salaries....look at horton in columbus or savard in boston who i believe is still on IR every year, hell i think pronger is still on it in philly

ultimately the only way girardi is gone is if he retires, no one will take that cap hit...ive said it since we signed him that i thought it was a horrible contract (since im new no one can corroborate)

It is a huge deal.

Boston had to move some players they probably did not want to because of the cap.

Philly is basically there too.

Teams that use it and ride the ceiling and beyond, there is no accumulative cap space for deadline deals, those contracts count in the summer so any free agent signing has to fit in with those cap hits. Plus there is no room for overages, if a team has one that space is taken out of next years space. Bonuses come into effect.

Columbus and teams who do not ride the ceiling they can absorb it without too much damage. But they traded away a contract like that and had to take back Clarkson, so unless you want to see things like Clarksons deal here, or the Rangers to not be able to sign their RFAs or their UFA to be players or any new UFAs, you really don't want them using long term injury.

 

[Rangers in 7]

It is a huge deal.

Boston had to move some players they probably did not want to because of the cap.

Philly is basically there too.

Teams that use it and ride the ceiling and beyond, there is no accumulative cap space for deadline deals, those contracts count in the summer so any free agent signing has to fit in with those cap hits. Plus there is no room for overages, if a team has one that space is taken out of next years space. Bonuses come into effect.

Columbus and teams who do not ride the ceiling they can absorb it without too much damage. But they traded away a contract like that and had to take back Clarkson, so unless you want to see things like Clarksons deal here, or the Rangers to not be able to sign their RFAs or their UFA to be players or any new UFAs, you really don't want them using long term injury.

i might not understand exactly how it works....if the rangers have 5 mil in cap space hypothetically and a player with a 5 mil cap hit gets put on ltir dont they have 10 mil in cap space?

 

[TheRightWay]

Except this ignores the fact that the coaches are the ones who make the call about who plays and who doesn't. They see him in practice, they see him in warm-ups, they speak to the team doctors, etc. It's not like Girardi just shows up and AV has no choice but to put him on the ice. If Girardi's struggles are injury related then this is AV's fault for playing someone when he shouldn't have.

Yes I also acknowledge that the coaches are at fault here.

 

[TheRightWay]

Not a great analogy. When I used to call in sick---the job never liked it. It didn't matter how sick I was or wasn't. Not everyone works in an office either and I never worried about whether my employer made money or not. That was their issue. My issue was to do my job (not someone else's) to the best of my abilities.

Okay, so if your bosses tell you to come in and do your job and make a bunch of amateur, massive mistakes, would they still be irate regardless of you being sick?

 

[Off Sides]

i might not understand exactly how it works....if the rangers have 5 mil in cap space hypothetically and a player with a 5 mil cap hit gets put on ltir dont they have 10 mil in cap space?

Not really, they basically are allowed to go over the cap in the regular season by the amount of the long term injured players cap hit.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/10/15/6951103/why-long-term-injured-reserve-is-not-good

http://thehockeyguys.net/timing-is-everything-maximizing-ltir-benefits/

 

[Rangers in 7]

Not really, they basically are allowed to go over the cap in the regular season by the amount of the long term injured players cap hit.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/10/15/6951103/why-long-term-injured-reserve-is-not-good

http://thehockeyguys.net/timing-is-everything-maximizing-ltir-benefits/

ok so in my example they would be able to acquire a rental player making 10 million or no? I understand there are many other ramifications involved but hypothetically in a vacuum they would have the ability to add a player making that much...not that i would recommend doing so

 

[Off Sides]

What they could do which is shady but Chicago has done, closer to the deadline, put a player on long term injury, go above the cap by trade using that overage space, wait for the playoffs to roll around where technically there is no cap, take the player off long term injury and play him.

 

[Rangers in 7]

What they could do which is shady but Chicago has done, closer to the deadline, put a player on long term injury, go above the cap by trade using that overage space, wait for the playoffs to roll around where technically there is no cap, take the player off long term injury and play him.

the issue with that is i dont want girardi coming back.......

 

[McRanger]

Until Tuesday, Girardi had played in 682 of a possible 687 games (plus 108 of 108 in the playoffs) since his Rangers/NHL debut on Jan. 27, 2007. This marked only the fifth game of the defenseman’s career he had missed because of injury (he was rested in the 2013-14 season finale) and the first since Feb. 7, 2013.

I think his point was that he has probably played through injuries. Which is something that gets harder to do the older you get.

 

[Tawnos]

ok so in my example they would be able to acquire a rental player making 10 million or no? I understand there are many other ramifications involved but hypothetically in a vacuum they would have the ability to add a player making that much...not that i would recommend doing so

The offseason is a big part of the problem here. You can only have a guy on LTIR during the regular season, and while there is a cap cushion during the offseason, your maneuverability is severely limited.

There's a reason Boston unloaded the Savard contract and Philadelphia unloaded the Pronger contract by paying other teams to take them on.

Also, it may be a technicality, but putting a $5m contract on LTIR doesn't give you $5m extra cap space. It allows you to go over the cap by $5m. That means you don't have any cap space at all. There are more technical things that this affects.

Finally, it better be a career ending injury. The league can bring in their own doctors to check to see if the player really isn't fit to play. You can't just put a guy on LTIR. He has to be truly too injured to play, even if he's only capable of playing at the AHL level.

 

[Rangers in 7]

The offseason is a big part of the problem here. You can only have a guy on LTIR during the regular season, and while there is a cap cushion during the offseason, your maneuverability is severely limited.

There's a reason Boston unloaded the Savard contract and Philadelphia unloaded the Pronger contract by paying other teams to take them on.

Also, it may be a technicality, but putting a $5m contract on LTIR doesn't give you $5m extra cap space. It allows you to go over the cap by $5m. That means you don't have any cap space at all. There are more technical things that this affects.

Finally, it better be a career ending injury. The league can bring in their own doctors to check to see if the player really isn't fit to play. You can't just put a guy on LTIR. He has to be truly too injured to play, even if he's only capable of playing at the AHL level.

thanks for clearing that up

 

[eco's bones]

Okay, so if your bosses tell you to come in and do your job and make a bunch of amateur, massive mistakes, would they still be irate regardless of you being sick?

Of course they would.

FWIW I retired a couple years ago. I worked years-decades of graveyard and early morning shifts. I didn't make massive mistakes. I was always systematic in the ways I did things. They might not like me a lot but they couldn't complain about the job I did--I never wanted to give them leverage like that so I had to be organized every day. The supervisors wanted all kinds of things--they always did--some of which were ridiculous. As far as I was concerned at least in some case they only had the vaguest notions about how things worked or what their personnel were capable of. They were pretty much winging it when they weren't being micromanaged by somebody or two or three from 90 miles away.

Anyway we were union. I never looked at the supervisory people in a 'my bosses' kind of way. They had rules to live by. We had rules to live by. There were periods of mutual cooperation and there were occasions for disagreement. Sometimes they'd win the disagreement but mostly we did because usually it was them trying to bend things.

 

[The Gloaming]

The offseason is a big part of the problem here. You can only have a guy on LTIR during the regular season, and while there is a cap cushion during the offseason, your maneuverability is severely limited.

There's a reason Boston unloaded the Savard contract and Philadelphia unloaded the Pronger contract by paying other teams to take them on.

Also, it may be a technicality, but putting a $5m contract on LTIR doesn't give you $5m extra cap space. It allows you to go over the cap by $5m. That means you don't have any cap space at all. There are more technical things that this affects.

Finally, it better be a career ending injury. The league can bring in their own doctors to check to see if the player really isn't fit to play. You can't just put a guy on LTIR. He has to be truly too injured to play, even if he's only capable of playing at the AHL level.

Girardi said his brain wasn't injured. Maybe they should double check that.

Either way, we're not putting a healthy player on LTIR. That player would probably not be happy and would definitely bring it to the NHLPA's attention.

That being said, if we can pull a Chicago Blackhawks and use that banked cap space for a rental, I say go for it.