WC: General Talk '12 — Finland

[FiLe]

If Kiiskinen and Jokinen play, where is Pesonen's place then?

They don't both play. If Jokinen is healthy, no changes. If he isn't, Kiiskinen takes his place.

 

[Ville82]

Gotta say... HDTVPlayer ftw. No ads, no buffering, no Saukkonen.

HDTV got *****

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

They don't both play. If Jokinen is healthy, no changes. If he isn't, Kiiskinen takes his place.

They said in Katsomo that Kiiskinen is in but Jokinen also plays. Dont know if thats true.

 

[FiLe]

They said in Katsomo that Kiiskinen is in but Jokinen also plays. Dont know if thats true.

Yes, Kiiskinen is in for the regular lineup in today's practice, because Jokinen didn't skate as "a precaution". Decisions for tomorrow's lineups will be made depending on whether Jokinen plays or not. All the other lines have been the exact same and no indication has been made that they'd be a subject of change.

That's everything that has been said. All the other speculation is probably due to this popular children's game, "broken telephone".

 

[SaekkiPaelli]

@FiLe

I have to admit I was wrong about Granlund. He is looking pretty good, not as good as beginning of season, but a lot better than after WJC or PO this season.

Immonen hasn't been good, shoots straight at the goalie like always. Pesonen has missed 60% of his shots by flailing on the puck. I know he just scored but there again he first misses(doesn't hit the puck) on a prime opportunity, managed to luck out (with some skills included) and score, but really what was that first miss -.-

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Jokinen is one mysterious player. Soft, fairly weak shot and not fast by any means. So how the hell did he ever manage to put up points in the NHL?

Okay okay i know how, but his place isnt on the top line.

 

[QnebO]

Jokinen is one mysterious player. Soft, fairly weak shot and not fast by any means. So how the hell did he ever manage to put up points in the NHL?

Okay okay i know how, but his place isnt on the top line.

Jokinen should be out of the roster or maybe take pyöräläs place at fourth. Kiiskinen to first line for a test in the next game.

 

[FlutteringSaucer]

Jokinen should be out of the roster or maybe take pyöräläs place at fourth. Kiiskinen to first line for a test in the next game.

Jokinen should be moved down, too bad we don't have any 1st line scorers in this team.
And yeah Kiiskinen is NOT the answer for contending team's 1st line sniper

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

I wouldnt go as far as dropping him out of the roster. He is still a good player, but he should play in the 2nd-3th line where the pressure of scoring is much less. But i think its clear to everybody now what i also said before the tourny started, Jokinen wont be the sniper for that 1st line no matter how hard they try.

But if we want to shuffle lines we have to do it now.

IMO Kapanen is kinda worthless offensively aswell, he can play 2-way game and every once in a while give a great pass but for the most part he is slow to react and cant shoot the puck. I would lift Kontiola to 3rd line.

 

[Finnpin]

Tami said 1st line needs Komarov and move JJ down. I like the idea.

Komarov creates space and Koivu/Val can start scoring.

 

[FlutteringSaucer]

I agree with Don Tami, switch Jokinen to 3rd and Komarov to 1st.

 

[QnebO]

Jokinen should be moved down, too bad we don't have any 1st line scorers in this team.
And yeah Kiiskinen is NOT the answer for contending team's 1st line sniper

But he's better than jokinen. I dont know tuppurainen that well but what ever, I would more likely try even him than keep Jokinen there.

 

[QnebO]

Tami said 1st line needs Komarov and move JJ down. I like the idea.

Komarov creates space and Koivu/Val can start scoring.

Solid idea. Jokinen is stopping Koivu and Filppula to capitalize their potentional, komarov wouldn't take that much kiekollinen role, he would just create some room there.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Why Komarov? I said like less than a week ago that we should try Joensuu there. He brings more size than Komarov and even has more skill - which isnt very known fact about him.

Joensuu is the dark horse in this tournament, please Jalonen do it.

 

[Finnpin]

Why Komarov? I said like less than a week ago that we should try Joensuu there. He brings more size than Komarov and even has more skill - which isnt very known fact about him.

Joensuu is the dark horse in this tournament, please Jalonen do it.

Komarov or Joensuu. Both would fit the role.

 

[QnebO]

Why Komarov?

Earlier (good) experience of that role in KHL is solid argument

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Joensuu had his moments in the SEL aswell this season, at that point he showed that he can score.

He has looked mad in these 2 games now, reaches for every puck, hits like a truck and shoots the puck.

 

[FiLe]

If new players are not added, I'm inclined to agree with Don Tami (*sigh*... never saw the day). It's worth a shot to try replacing Jokinen with Komarov, at least for PP.

But like I said in the game thread, I'm also worried about our 4th line. Apart from Pihlström, it's being woefully invisible.

So I repeat...

Filppula - Koivu - Kiiskinen
Pesonen - Immonen - Granlund
Komarov - Kapanen - Jokinen
Pihlström - Kontiola - Joensuu

could be a lineup worth trying at some point.

 

[FlutteringSaucer]

What has Kiiskinen done to deserve the first line winger's slot over Komarov/Joensuu?

Also I didn't want to criticize Jalonen for cutting Nokelainen and Petrell from the team since he usually seems to have some idea behind building his team... BUT that 4th line has been really unimpressive, only thing I've noticed is Pillu because of his speed (which too bad is all he has...).

 

[FiLe]

What has Kiiskinen done to deserve the first line winger's slot over Komarov/Joensuu?

He was pretty good at it at the preliminaries.

Not that I'd mind either of those getting a shot at it either. I don't by no means wish to imply that any guy currently in the lineup is somehow worse than those waiting on the sidelines. Our bottom-six just needs some meat too. Plus besides our 1st, the 4th needs to improve as well as stated, but in a different manner. Any line changes need to be made in a manner that brings an upside to the line under scrutiny, but don't needlessly make the other lines any worse.

 

[Mestaruus]

It's too bad Finland's schedule is as follows: Belarus, Slovakia, Swiss, France, Canada, USA, Kazakstan. The real test is in CAN and USA games where we really are going to know if something is wrong and if our scoring is enough vs these tough countries when we sometimes are going to let some goals and have to play the catch up game. We don't have much time to try our new lines for the game of death, because we face them so late in the group. For this reason I've wanted a change on the lines earlier, even as early as for today's game.

There are 2 players in the top-2 lines that clearly aren't hot right now. Not bad, not good. Jokinen and Immonen. Granlund created those chances all by himself, Immonen didn't have anything to do with them. Immonen isn't needed for Granlund to perform well and if Immonen can't score this year, what good is he for? Immonen still plays rather good defensively so he could be dropped to line #3 center and who knows maybe he'll find his scoring there.

Granlund-Koivu-Pesonen
Filppula-Kapanen-Komarov
Tuppurainen-Immonen-Jokinen
Pihlström-Kontiola-Joensuu

It's pretty radical move to change all the lineups like this, but if we'd have few games to adjust, these would work very well. Unfortunately soonest Jalonen would make as radical changes as these is after CAN or USA game if we happen to lose and have a bad showing. So wont happen at all, he'll make smaller changes than that. I strongly believe we can be defensively as strong as we are now and still be more effective offensively with these line changes, but changing them too late is pointless.

 

[FiLe]

It's pretty radical move to change all the lineups like this, but if we'd have few games to adjust, these would work very well.

Nice you say so yourself, since even if some radicality is needed, that's far too radical. First of all, what's with taking Filppula and Koivu apart? Those two have found each other just fine. The logic probably is to maintain Granlund - Pesonen connection (the Pesonen that was supposed to be useless... remember?) but that can be done simply by throwing Kapanen and Immonen around, though I would still give Immonen more time. He is the one who most reliably picks up his game when things start to be on the line. He's done so in his every WHC so far.

Another thing is this insane logic behind "adjusting" again when the tournament is underway. If the team can beat the lesser countries even with this lineup, then it should be kept that way or only go through fine-tuning changes. If you mix up the lines from scratch, you also enhance the risk of an upset or two to happen, and besides having a chance to topple the other elite countries, we also DO need points from these lesser countries to make it to the games that truly matter. To risk those points so that our team would have better odds at then regaining them from tougher opposition is just doing things bass-ackwards.

 

[Mestaruus]

Nice you say so yourself, since even if some radicality is needed, that's far too radical. First of all, what's with taking Filppula and Koivu apart? Those two have found each other just fine.

Just fine, isn't good enough. There are other players in our lineup that Filppula or Koivu alone will play 'just fine' with. They still haven't got the puck in the net.

You mistake me for someone else if you think I've ever **** talked Pesonen. All I've ever said is Pesonen could be put in line #3 and he'd perform well there as well. Pesonen has done exactly what I've predicted before the tournament, performed very well. Jokinen-Koivu-Filppula hasn't been that great, just like I predicted before the tournament. Immonen hasn't been great in the practise games, and now 2 group games are done, time to make changes with Immonen as well, before it's too late.

Well we aren't going to lose to France, Kazakstan no matter what we do. We are going to be (EDIT:at least) #3 or #4 of our group no matter what.

If the team can beat the lesser countries even with this lineup, then it should be kept that way or only go through fine-tuning changes. If you mix up the lines from scratch, you also enhance the risk of an upset or two to happen, and besides having a chance to topple the other elite countries, we also DO need points from these lesser countries to make it to the games that truly matter.

Playing things too safe isn't good either (being scared to change the lines too much). I'm afraid the result of doing things too safe will be something like, win over USA or CAN. Lose 1 of these games. Face RUS/SWE/CZE in the first playoff game and lose by goal and be out. However, I respect Swiss a lot and changing things before that game might be risky, so maybe do these changes after Swiss game if we once again win 1-0 and things look the same.

CAN & USA will be a reality check for us and, i'm afraid many of us will be in panic at that point with our current lines if Mäenpää-Hietanen will start failing defensively at that point and we still havent found our scoring with the same lines we have now.

 

[QnebO]

Another thing is this insane logic behind "adjusting" again when the tournament is underway. If the team can beat the lesser countries even with this lineup, then it should be kept that way or only go through fine-tuning changes. If you mix up the lines from scratch, you also enhance the risk of an upset or two to happen, and besides having a chance to topple the other elite countries, we also DO need points from these lesser countries to make it to the games that truly matter. To risk those points so that our team would have better odds at then regaining them from tougher opposition is just doing things bass-ackwards.

We only need to start to capitalize potentional of filppula-koivu connection (get rid of jokinen), that is working fine. Other changes arent that badly needed, but I would also like to see Pyörälä being replaced based on performs this far.

I think the time is now or never, we cannot start making changes when its quarters or so, we need to do it now when we got couple of "easier" games.

 

[Mestaruus]

Qnebo, next is Swiss tho. So small change before Swiss game. They are dangerous. Swap Komarov-J.Jokinen. Then go with the lines i recommended in my last post, if we still can't score.

Filppula is so good that he'll work fine with anyone. He doesn't need to be with M.Koivu. Immonen isn't hot right now, so Koivu can center Pesonen-Granlund.