GDT: GDT #15 New York Islanders @ Vancouver Canucks | Bowie Horvat Returns | November 15th | Too Late EST (10) PM | F/4-3 OTL

[BrockLobster]

6 shots on goal and 2 assists is maddening?

The glorious missed opportunities this magician gives his linemates is what's maddening.

But I guess haters gotta hate?

Im also a big barzal fan. But he does some infuriating crap. The over passing....the terrible penalties. His OT play.

 

[PK Cronin]

PK look at this shit again. And be totally honest here.

Play it and freeze frame at the 0:9 mark. LOOK AT IT This was the moment the bad decision was made.

Why are we starting it there when the play developed way before then? You're just going to ignore anything that happened before then because this is the worst look for Horvat, to whom I've already assigned some blame.

Why is Horvat turning away from Hughes? What the hell is he doing? The Isles don't have the puck and he's a foot away from one of the best skaters on the ice. You cover that man but inexplicably turns towards the middle of the ice for no reason. There was no opportunity to create offense here. And just prior to that he was just floating around not really skating paying attention to what's going on. Watch Horvat this entire video he was just lazily skating around slowly like he was in warm up. Heck he wasn't even holding onto his stick with both hands the entire sequence and was totally disengaged from the play. Just floating around. It's one thing if a player gets a step on you because you are flat footed it's another thing to get many steps on you because you inexplicably skating in the wrong direction and not paying attention as Horvat did here.

I already explained this to you but you don't understand or care. I'll do it again, with pictures and arrows for you this time. He's not "not paying attention," that was Barzal.

Barzal was exactly in the right position to try to intercept or prevent that pass and as many Nucks fans are saying on their boards that was a heck of a pass. The Isles in particular Barzal was absolutely 100% in the correct position Horvat just totally screwed up his assignment. I can't believe how lazy Horvat was in that entire play. He was floating around slowly thinking about scoring a goal. It doesn't look like his mind was on defense at all.

Incorrect. Barzal was in position until the last second when he decided to float to the puck carrier. There's no reason to go toward the puck carrier in this situation when Pelech already has him covered and Horvat is taking the third man. In fact, if Horvat does cover Hughes in this scenario the third man is going to have a lot of options with where to skate when he gets given the puck because Barzal is standing in the center of the ice. Being in the middle of the ice is generally very bad if you're standing still.

If you can't see what's so glaringly obvious I don't know what else to say other than you and other fans here are just trying to rationalize why you dislike Barzal.

That's the last I'm going to say on this matter.

If you look at the time stamps, again, and notice that the information being given to Horvat is all indicating that Barzal is going to cover Hughes maybe you wouldn't cling to the one micro second that makes Horvat look like he f***ed up royally. Did Horvat make a mistake? Absolutely. He should've recognized Barzal was floating out of position and tried to recover. Does that absolve Barzal from making the poor decision? Absolutely not and ultimately it was his mess up that created confusion and allowed his man to go uncovered for a breakaway.

 

[NYI365]

A record of 5-6-4 is really something. That's 5 wins and 10 losses for those scoring at home, NHL loser points and all that malarkey be damned.

"You are what your record says you are" -Lou Lamoriello.

I'd say this record says that this team is hot shit. Clean house.

 

[SI90]

Just blame Bailey and move on

 

[NYI365]

Why are we starting it there when the play developed way before then? You're just going to ignore anything that happened before then because this is the worst look for Horvat, to whom I've already assigned some blame.



I already explained this to you but you don't understand or care. I'll do it again, with pictures and arrows for you this time. He's not "not paying attention," that was Barzal.

View attachment 769045View attachment 769046View attachment 769047View attachment 769048View attachment 769049


Incorrect. Barzal was in position until the last second when he decided to float to the puck carrier. There's no reason to go toward the puck carrier in this situation when Pelech already has him covered and Horvat is taking the third man. In fact, if Horvat does cover Hughes in this scenario the third man is going to have a lot of options with where to skate when he gets given the puck because Barzal is standing in the center of the ice. Being in the middle of the ice is generally very bad if you're standing still.



If you look at the time stamps, again, and notice that the information being given to Horvat is all indicating that Barzal is going to cover Hughes maybe you wouldn't cling to the one micro second that makes Horvat look like he f***ed up royally. Did Horvat make a mistake? Absolutely. He should've recognized Barzal was floating out of position and tried to recover. Does that absolve Barzal from making the poor decision? Absolutely not and ultimately it was his mess up that created confusion and allowed his man to go uncovered for a breakaway.

What scares me to death is that this post probably has more insightful breakdowns and analysis than anything the entire coaching staff could muster up.

 

[Throttle]

If you take off Islanders-centric-narrative - this is a superb, pure-instinct play by Quinn Hughes. Gretzky used to bolt into open ice and look like he was cheating or offside, P Bure as well (and this is before the two line pass was allowed), recently Grabner (though he was weightless and could skate like a rocket).

Hughes made them all look bad. You could argue all three lacked awareness, Barzal for turning away, Horvat not quick enough to spot Hughes' potential to go forward, Pelech for forcing a play when he's the last guy back and only defenseman.

Ultimately, 3on3 is a crap shoot and the Islanders actually played a pretty good game all things considered. If they played that was vs. EDM they would have won easily. VAN is good, they outshot the Islanders badly and since they were trailing most of the game. The Islanders, through maybe Lambert's direction (certainly he's accountable as head coach) prevent-defense and bad penalties allowed the lead to go away. It's happened too many times before.

Barzal played pretty well. The VAN feed loves him (every opposing feed loves Barzal, the panel rave about his skating and puck possession) and he's definitely a top talent. We just want more that probably won't come. I also think Horvat is a very good hockey player.

Problem is, term, cap-hit, rest of the roster, elite player(s) around them are all problems you cannot fix.

But that's for another day.

Most opposing team feeds see all the flash and dash and carry along a narrative, so it’s most positive stuff.

When you start to watch consistently you see the issue exacerbate across multiple areas of his game. There are times that even Butch tries to keep the positive going as the home guy, but he lets it slip on his frustration with how Barzal plays because he sees it consistently.

 

[PK Cronin]

Sorry, but even looking at the stills this morning. And not taking account the speed and momentum of both players. I still don’t understand why Horvat is moving at the loop that he takes. We go from still one (center ice) to still two Barzal and Horvat on the same side of the ice with Hughes.

If I see Horvat vacate that center spot while taking a direction towards my side of the ice, I’m likely going to think he’s switching off.

Even I were to concede it as a mistake by Barzal, I still don’t see why Horvat now lets Hughes go the way he did, after seemingly marking him as his man. Hughes likely burns him regardless but, still Horvat looked to stop just before Hughes took off.

Horvat is going to pick up that third man and is setting up the angle to do so, we just don't see that player on our screen. We see this on forechecks all the time. By setting up on the wall he's able to keep the third man behind him and contained if he takes the proper angle, angling him off if he gets the puck and forcing him to make a difficult play or curl back.

I don't think Horvat recognized that Barzal was leaving Hughes until Hughes was already gone. Barzal maintains okay position on Hughes until the last moment when he curls towards the offensive zone instead of back towards his own. By that time it was already too late. A clear miscommunication but one that can't happen in OT.

 

[Throttle]

A record of 5-6-4 is really something. That's 5 wins and 10 losses for those scoring at home, NHL loser points and all that malarkey be damned.

"You are what your record says you are" -Lou Lamoriello.

I'd say this record says that this team is hot shit. Clean house.

It shows that the family ain’t good at keeping things together when it counts. They’ve given away points, wins, etc. that they will not recover from.

It’s early, but all the other teams are going to have a stretch of crap too. The isles better hope that happens across the board and they get their crap together.

 

[Osakahaus]

A record of 5-6-4 is really something. That's 5 wins and 10 losses for those scoring at home, NHL loser points and all that malarkey be damned.

"You are what your record says you are" -Lou Lamoriello.

I'd say this record says that this team is hot shit. Clean house.

And if he hires Chris, then this team is further doomed.

 

[beach]

Why are we starting it there when the play developed way before then? You're just going to ignore anything that happened before then because this is the worst look for Horvat, to whom I've already assigned some blame.



I already explained this to you but you don't understand or care. I'll do it again, with pictures and arrows for you this time. He's not "not paying attention," that was Barzal.

View attachment 769045View attachment 769046View attachment 769047View attachment 769048View attachment 769049


Incorrect. Barzal was in position until the last second when he decided to float to the puck carrier. There's no reason to go toward the puck carrier in this situation when Pelech already has him covered and Horvat is taking the third man. In fact, if Horvat does cover Hughes in this scenario the third man is going to have a lot of options with where to skate when he gets given the puck because Barzal is standing in the center of the ice. Being in the middle of the ice is generally very bad if you're standing still.



If you look at the time stamps, again, and notice that the information being given to Horvat is all indicating that Barzal is going to cover Hughes maybe you wouldn't cling to the one micro second that makes Horvat look like he f***ed up royally. Did Horvat make a mistake? Absolutely. He should've recognized Barzal was floating out of position and tried to recover. Does that absolve Barzal from making the poor decision? Absolutely not and ultimately it was his mess up that created confusion and allowed his man to go uncovered for a breakaway.

"Incorrect. Barzal was in position until the last second when he decided to float to the puck carrier. There's no reason to go toward the puck carrier in this situation when Pelech already has him covered and Horvat is taking the third man. "

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.

 

[Throttle]

And if he hires Chris, then this team is further doomed.

I highly doubt Malkin and Ledecky are going to let Lou hire his kid. This nonsense is beyond nonsense.

 

[Lek]

Just blame Bailey and move on

There ya go...way too much of this. Seriously, way too much.

There is some sort of disconnect between the players and the coaching staff.

While Lane was thought to be a new voice, and technically is(was) and yup, did not mind the hire.....His voice is not new enough....or maybe strong enough?.....or he has the wrong staff. Either or all, one can not fire the players (at least not all at once though that would be interesting), so....time to either start firing coaching staff, the head coach, or bloody all of them. Either way it needs to be done soon as possible as it should have been done this past Sunday.

 

[Osakahaus]

I highly doubt Malkin and Ledecky are going to let Lou hire his kid. This nonsense is beyond nonsense.

Never doubt stupidity

 

[redbull]

Most opposing team feeds see all the flash and dash and carry along a narrative, so it’s most positive stuff.

When you start to watch consistently you see the issue exacerbate across multiple areas of his game. There are times that even Butch tries to keep the positive going as the home guy, but he lets it slip on his frustration with how Barzal plays because he sees it consistently.

100% true.

And that's why fan bases love trades, the fun-name you see on Twitter/X that the insiders talk about, you fall in love with the unknown. So now Zadorov and Tanev are essentially Niedermayer-Stevens - yet - you're able to get them to retain salary, take back bad contracts and marginal 3rd rate prospects. It's INSANE.

That's why i wonder about pro-scouting, how talent is assessed before landing a player.

Did VAN see something in Beavillier/Raty? or just settle for a young roster player and top prospect because that's the ask.

I've made this point earlier, I suspect Barzal has really high market value because there's belief around the league that he's an elite talent and maybe stuck in a bad situation. I've said this for years, I think aside from this fan base, NOBODY watches the Islanders closely.

On the flipside, I watch a lot of hockey, a lot of other teams, all teams have scape-goats, really flawed players, weak defenders, zero depth and major problems (except Vegas and whatever is happening in that ivy league Massachusetts BOS team - don't understand it)

The Islanders aren't that bad, and aren't that good.

Barzal isn't a 100pt player but he's not that bad.

The truth is usually in the boring-middle.

 

[Rehabguy]

What scares me to death is that this post probably has more insightful breakdowns and analysis than anything the entire coaching staff could muster up.

Except it's all wrong. It really is.

 

[Rehabguy]

Horvat is going to pick up that third man and is setting up the angle to do so, we just don't see that player on our screen. We see this on forechecks all the time. By setting up on the wall he's able to keep the third man behind him and contained if he takes the proper angle, angling him off if he gets the puck and forcing him to make a difficult play or curl back.

I don't think Horvat recognized that Barzal was leaving Hughes until Hughes was already gone. Barzal maintains okay position on Hughes until the last moment when he curls towards the offensive zone instead of back towards his own. By that time it was already too late. A clear miscommunication but one that can't happen in OT.

Man you really are reaching. With all due respect this is such a convoluted way to interpret what happened. How could Horvat not recognize that Barzal was leaving Hughes? He's skating right behind both of them with both of them in his line of sight and Hughes and Barzal were nearly 30 feet away from each other before he skated off on his breakaway. Horvat was floating. Indicates that he was going to switch off with Barzal to cover Hughes. Continues to float and inexplicably skates towards the middle of the ice and loses his man. Hughes has breakaway and scores OT winner. End of story. You drew this weird storyline all in your mind when the video is just so straightforward and simple.

 

[Lame Lambert]

What scares me to death is that this post probably has more insightful breakdowns and analysis than anything the entire coaching staff could muster up.

I refuse to believe that anyone on this team, player or coach, watches tape.

Except it's all wrong. It really is.

“It’s wrong because I said it is wrong”

 

[NYI365]

What this team really needs in addition to a god damn coaching change is another shock the core and country club trade. I'm ready for LaFontaine for Turgeon 2.0 and would happily offer up Barzal as this generation's LaFontaine. The problem will be finding the next Turgeon.

 

[Zeeker]

Man you really are reaching. With all due respect this is such a convoluted way to interpret what happened. Horvat was floating. Indicates that he was going to switch off with Barzal to cover Hughes. Continues to float and inexplicably skates towards the middle of the ice and loses his man. Hughes has breakaway and scores OT winner. End of story. You drew this weird storyline all in your mind when the video is just so straightforward and simple.

You seem like the type of poster that will go to the opposing team’s board and apologize for your team’s performance.

I’m just thankful you’re no longer going on and on about how we’re the dark horse of the league on the main boards

 

[PK Cronin]

Man you really are reaching. With all due respect this is such a convoluted way to interpret what happened. How could Horvat not recognize that Barzal was leaving Hughes? He's skating right behind both of them with both of them in his line of sight. Horvat was floating. Indicates that he was going to switch off with Barzal to cover Hughes. Continues to float and inexplicably skates towards the middle of the ice and loses his man. Hughes has breakaway and scores OT winner. End of story. You drew this weird storyline all in your mind when the video is just so straightforward and simple.

You're right. Your in depth knowledge of the game, systems, and this analysis has changed my mind.

 

[Osakahaus]

What this team really needs in addition to a god damn coaching change is another shock the core and country club trade. I'm ready for LaFontaine for Turgeon 2.0 and would happily offer up Barzal as this generation's LaFontaine. The problem will be finding the next Turgeon.

I'd rather just trade Nelson and Palmieri and start anew. They need to build a new younger core. This team needs speed. You will not win in today's NHL if you do not have speed. This is the slowest team in the NHL and that says a lot.

Again, if this team is going to go anywhere, please start removing that bottom 6. I do house repairs, and the islanders are essentially the team that has kept faulty wiring for the past 4 decades and has refused to change them, even with the copper starting to show.

 

[NYI365]

I refuse to believe that anyone on this team, player or coach, watches tape.


“It’s wrong because I said it is wrong”

Well not quite, Bo Barzal and Pelech all had a pretty good view of Quinn Hughes' stick tape blow by them and wrist home the winner last night.

 

[Rehabguy]

View attachment 769045

And look at number 14 below approaching Barzal to indicate he's going switch off and cover Hughes. That's exactly what Barzal should have interpreted what's going on here. Horvat covers Hughes, Barzal covers the passing lane. This is hockey 101 it's not rocket science.

 

[PK Cronin]

And look at number 14 below approaching Barzal to indicate he's going switch off and cover Hughes. That's exactly what Barzal should have interpreted what's going on here. Horvat covers Hughes, Barzal covers the passing lane. This is hockey 101 it's not rocket science.

You should start with Hockey 001 before making any comments on 101.

 

[Rehabguy]

You seem like the type of poster that will go to the opposing team’s board and apologize for your team’s performance.

I’m just thankful you’re no longer going on and on about how we’re the dark horse of the league on the main boards

I can be a good soldier. We should debate this play on the main boards and see what people say. My bet is they say this is Horvat's fault.

You're right. Your in depth knowledge of the game, systems, and this analysis has changed my mind.

Again not rocket science.