Garth Snow Pt. III - Snow’s inactivity

Nassau Revisited

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Jun 16, 2017
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Check out The Athletic’s Pierre LeBrun. He interviewed new Hurricanes owner Tom Dundon about why he fired Ron Francis and what he expects from his Hockey Ops Dept going forward. It makes me realize how much of a copout Jon Ledecky made on Boomer Esiason’s show in January with his “players play, coaches coah, owners own” crap. I get wanting to be a hands off owner in matters that you have no knowledge in but I’ve don’t recall Ledecky ever stating publicly what he expects from his Hockey Ops Dept. he should address it in light of the lack of success his current GM has had since the financial shackles came off and he started spending the Barclays money. Snow answers to ownership.

It took over a decade for fans to finally stop drinking the kool-aid and realize Snow is a absolute disaster.

The fans better wake up quick and realize L&M are all about real estate and flipping the team for profit. The do NOT care about winning. If they did a team president would have been hired 18 months ago
 

redbull

Boss
Mar 24, 2008
12,593
654
Problem is that the team paid him #1 defenseman money and he isn't one.

The rest of those contracts... 1 or 2 would be fine. Problem is that you have all these bottom 6 types on long term money deals. That's bad.

And now you either pay more money (right to the cap) to be the same team or let players walk and unable to replace them.

Our GM couldn't have made a bigger mess if he tried
 

majormet

Registered User
Nov 12, 2009
9,440
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Dix Hills, NY
This really needs to be his last year, more fatalistic moves than ever

Worst move was not bringing in a dman when Boychuk went down, we settled for Aho and Seids and that was just wroing

2nd was clearly the lack of toughness on the team which was addressed too late with additions of Wagner and Johnston

3rd was inability to change things up when things were going south, firing a coach is too bold, but bringing up Gibson would have been a good move

You add this to the Frans offseason and it really supercedes the Barzal and Eberle moves, because he traded poor draft picks (Reinhart and STrome) to get talent... if we drafted halfway good in the first place we would have assets in the top 6 and top 4. I don't call the moves great, but more like corrective measures

This team has a lot of bad contracts and it will be hard to build on it
 

Big L

Grandpa’s Cough Medicine is 180 Proof
Feb 7, 2013
12,129
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Snow moved Strome for Eberle in a move that was seen as two guys who needed a change of scenery. I find it hard to believe Garf couldn’t have found, out of 30 possibilities, the same lateral move for Nelson.
 

doublechili

For all intensive purposes, your nuts
Apr 11, 2006
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Snow moved Strome for Eberle in a move that was seen as two guys who needed a change of scenery. I find it hard to believe Garf couldn’t have found, out of 30 possibilities, the same lateral move for Nelson.
Snow is afraid he won't get to hang out with Kevin Connolly if he trades the guy Connolly drafted.
 
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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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Snow moved Strome for Eberle in a move that was seen as two guys who needed a change of scenery. I find it hard to believe Garf couldn’t have found, out of 30 possibilities, the same lateral move for Nelson.

Depends on what Snow views Nelson as. The rest of the league may value him a lot lower than Snow does.

The Eberle situation was also a unique one in which pretty much everyone (even Edmonton) knew they were giving up the better player, but the Oilers wanted cap space and thought they should move on from a $6 million player who was a ghost in the playoffs.
 

aronjudge11

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Jul 2, 2017
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Yeah Snow is super slow to react to fix anything. He believes in as little roster turnover as possible. For some reason he thinks roster turnover makes the players not play as hard...he probably thinks we shouldnt have traded for butch goring. He will wait 3 times longer tobfix a problem another team would fix sooner. Same with changing coaches. doesnt believe in it. the devils fired a head coach a couple weeks before the playoffs. if snow os back u can bet dougie is coach again next season. there is just no urgency i know friends who coach little league that worry more about winning then ledecky and wang do.
 

12Dog

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Feb 14, 2013
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Yeah Snow is super slow to react to fix anything. He believes in as little roster turnover as possible. For some reason he thinks roster turnover makes the players not play as hard...he probably thinks we shouldnt have traded for butch goring. He will wait 3 times longer tobfix a problem another team would fix sooner. Same with changing coaches. doesnt believe in it. the devils fired a head coach a couple weeks before the playoffs. if snow os back u can bet dougie is coach again next season. there is just no urgency i know friends who coach little league that worry more about winning then ledecky and wang do.

So the goalie position will be top notch in another 24 years? Awesome
 

Chapin Landvogt

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Jul 4, 2002
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Snow moved Strome for Eberle in a move that was seen as two guys who needed a change of scenery. I find it hard to believe Garf couldn’t have found, out of 30 possibilities, the same lateral move for Nelson.

For whatever reason, I think Snow loves Nelson and simply isn't giving up on him any time soon. He's been Snow's pet project of sorts.
 

Kauskey

Registered User
Mar 16, 2007
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For whatever reason, I think Snow loves Nelson and simply isn't giving up on him any time soon. He's been Snow's pet project of sorts.

Nelson's just too talented to give up on this stage in his career. At worst he's a ~20 goal scorer and provides scoring depth on a team that struggles to score outside of the top two lines. I know it's frustrating, but he is what he is: a mid-6 passenger. If he puts it all together, he'll has the potential to be a great contributor. If he doesn't, he still provides some scoring depth. We're too shallow at forward to move on from him, and I doubt there's much demand for him either to make it worth moving him.
 

danteipp

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Aug 3, 2005
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To me, the problem with Nelson is he just doesn't fit right now, given some of the oddball and ill-fitting parts in the bottom six.

The only way I see Nelson fitting in is if Ladd all of a sudden got healthy and started producing. Then you could put Ladd at LW2 and Nelson at LW3. But Ladd appears to be held together by duct tape and bailing wire at this point and I am not sure he is ever going to recover enough to man a top-6 role outside of the occasional shift here and there or as an injury fill in.

Then the Isles would either need Cizikas to emerge as a legit 3C, and so far injuries have held him back, or they need to see Beauvillier take on the role. Honestly, I think the most likely option is that Tito will grow into the role but that will probably be next season at the earliest.

If a couple of those pieces were to fall into place, you might have a serviceable third line that you could cobble together around Nelson and one of Beauvillier/Cizikas and perhaps a Ho-Sang or Clutterbuck.

Of course at some point very soon, Nelson is going to get paid more than he is worth as he gets closer to UFA. And that is why I would be looking to move Nelson for defense help or a legit 3C. The Isles can then sign a cheaper vet stopgap or hope that one of Bellows, MDC, etc. can provide tertiary scoring similar to Nelson.

It just makes sense to move Nelson to fix a larger issue elsewhere, even if you are sacrificing upside for stability and some cost savings to sign Lee/Eberle long term.
 

danteipp

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Aug 3, 2005
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Wish Nelson would develop an "attitude problem" like Nino supposedly had.

I think the more realistic option is that contract negotiations get contentious again and Nelson is shipped out. Ideally for a bigger need like defense or 3C, however, if it is still Snow driving the bus, we are prob looking at a late second that will be flipped for two thirds. Then they take two college goalies who are years away... from playing for the Bridgeport Sound Tigers.
 

periferal

Registered User
Jul 5, 2007
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That's the reason Snow loves Nelson. He's a yes-man just like all of his other cronies.


This angle does not get enough play. There is literally no one in the organization right now questioning snow. He's engineered a situation where everyone is on board with what he wants to do. If you question him at all, you will get the "Nino treatment."

In this regard snow is doing what's best for his ego - Not the Islanders.
 
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BarBeauWahlDobLok

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Sep 5, 2014
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A GM's tenure can not strictly be looked at as a moves he's won vs. moves he lost exercise, and there are Islander fans who have fallen into that trap, though, many have stopped drinking the Kool-Aid, which is good, as this organization has something of a history of listening, or at least reacting, to its fans. Though, not often or early enough.

Garth Snow has won his fair share of moves. Those moves are probably the ones that have helped him stay in office for nearly twelve full calendar years. He won the Ryan Smyth trade, though, he was unable to re-sign him. The Islanders that went the other way had either next to no, or literally, no career. He bought out Alexei Yashin, stock piled the 2008 draft (which also will ultimately result in an additional 2018 first round pick from Hamonic), drafted John Tavares, and had a pretty decent 2009 draft overall, swindled two picks out of Edmonton for the now-busted Griffin Reinhart, which resulted in Matt Barzal and Anthony Beauvillier. He would go back to the Oiler well again to heist Jordan Eberle for an unable-to-get-it Ryan Strome. It also appears as though he may have drafted a pending and legitimate sniper in Keiffer Bellows.

I won't argue that these aren't good moves. They are. And he is deserving of credit for them. He gets it. However, this is not management. This is acquisition. He held on to Jack Capuano for far too long, and after finally letting him go, he went back to the in-house well to hire Doug Weight, a move that is proving to be repetitive and exhaustive. He never put a qualified winger on Tavares' side. Yes, he tried with Thomas Vanek, but after that didn't work out, he just gave up. All of Tavares' wingers were shots in the dark, and they tend to disappear for extended periods of time.

With Garth Snow, it's either major headline news or nothing. And it's only major headline once or twice a year. More often that not, nothing happens in-season, and when it does, it's too late.

He couldn't figure out the three-headed monster that was the goaltending situation. He can't fire coaches and hire new ones who will be effective. He will not plug gaping holes in any position; whether it be Tavares' wing, a depleted defense, or faulty goaltending. He only deals with Peter Chiarelli, and why is that? Do other GMs just simply not want to deal with him? There was a GM that reportedly went hard after Brock Nelson, and Garth Snow said "no". Is he the only one who doesn't see how bad Brock Nelson is?

One of the problems is the narrow focus that's put on his good moves. It's not a problem with most fans anymore. Now, it's a problem with ownership. Eric Murphy wants to know exactly what Garth Snow has done to deserve such derision. It's Snow's activity in frequent inactivity that's doing this franchise in. He's the type of guy who mows the lawn and doesn't work for a year and his parents want to know, "Why didn't you load the dishwasher?" - and Garth frequently goes back to how great a job he did on the lawn. I can't speak for Garth's reaction to most things, but I know for sure that fans point to his good moves every time his termination comes up.

Again, yes, he has made good moves. But he hasn't managed this team into a winning situation. And as General Manager, that's his job. He can compile assets until the cows come home, but if the assets don't amount to an outstanding product, it doesn't matter what, or how many assets he has.

He's hired a coach who has been out of wins and out of answers for a few weeks now. He has a highly sought after center who could theoretically be playing for any team in six months time with nothing to show for him. Should this matter to the fans? Should this matter to the team? Yes, of course, because fans want to know, "Do I invest in season tickets next year if there's a Tavaresless team taking the ice?" - Ownership should be equally concerned with this. Snow is not managing the situation. As fans, we deserve to know where all this stands.

Most of us are older and experienced fans. With that said, don't try to sell on Barzal and Barzal alone should Tavares leave. We remember the days of Pat LaFontaine when he was all we had. The team wasn't good. At the time, a well-aged Bryan Trottier was not good enough to be the second line center, and we Brent Sutter didn't have the dynamic of assured offense enough to support a thriving second line. We certainly didn't have the wingers. So, if Tavares goes, we're right back where we started, and poorly managed, as has been expected for decades, now.

Don't look to Garth Snow's moves for solace. Trades are only a portion of a General Manger's job. It's General Manger, not General Acquisitionist. The reflection of a GM's success is the product on the ice, and the product on the ice hasn't been stellar. And no part of Garth Snow's performance has justified a dozen non-threatened years as the leader of this franchise.
 

dlawong

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Nov 24, 2011
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Vancouver, Canada
If a top 2 D with term is available from another team, maybe Isles need to make a real hockey trade to acquire one. I love Lee both as a player and person, but he may be the biggest chip Isles has not naming Barzal and a posible resigned JT. Couple him with the lower 2018 1st non lottery pick and another D not naming Pulock and Boychuk on the Isles team roster or system to acquire a legit top 2 D with term and still in prime. Lee will be a useful chip for landing such a D.

As for scoring, if JT resigns Isles can resign Nelson and move him into Lee's spot because he has played well before on top line with JT and it may work. Put Johnston on the PP unit 2 to screen the goalie as he will be really tough for the defender to move out and can cause havoc for the goalie. let Nelson take Lee's spot on PP unit 1.

Really hate to do this as I really like Lee personally. However for Isles to improve their D immediately, this may be the only option to go without giving up blue chips like Barzal and Beau plus the higher 2018 1st round pick.

By the way If they can resign a well recovered CDH to a resonable contract then maybe they do not need to make such a move. He was a top blocker in the NHL and a good puck mover and I think he was missed quite a lot this season.

I also believe that Nelson is better at wing than center for the following reasons:
- not strong in the circle
- not great at checking and force turnovers
- not much of a passer

He is good at scoring from the slot position coming down with a bit of speed. He has the size to play up in front of the net and long reach to retrieve rebounds. Even if he plays his off wing postion I think he is still better than playing at centre. I recalled that he had success playing the wing position with Eichel at the World champion games. Wonder why Isles managment and coaching can't see that at all?
 
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NC 1972

Registered User
Dec 8, 2017
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If a top 2 D with term is available from another team, maybe Isles need to make a real hockey trade to acquire one. I love Lee both as a player and person, but he may be the biggest chip Isles has not naming Barzal and a posible resigned JT. Couple him with the lower 2018 1st non lottery pick and another D not naming Pulock and Boychuk on the Isles team roster or system to acquire a legit top 2 D with term and still in prime. Lee will be a useful chip for landing such a D.

As for scoring, if JT resigns Isles can resign Nelson and move him into Lee's spot because he has played well before on top line with JT and it may work. Put Johnston on the PP unit 2 to screen the goalie as he will be really tough for the defender to move out and can cause havoc for the goalie. let Nelson take Lee's spot on PP unit 1.

Really hate to do this as I really like Lee personally. However for Isles to improve their D immediately, this may be the only option to go without giving up blue chips like Barzal and Beau plus the higher 2018 1st round pick.

By the way If they can resign a well recovered CDH to a resonable contract then maybe they do not need to make such a move. He was a top blocker in the NHL and a good puck mover and I think he was missed quite a lot this season.

I also believe that Nelson is better at wing than center for the following reasons:
- not strong in the circle
- not great at checking and force turnovers
- not much of a passer

He is good at scoring from the slot position coming down with a bit of speed. He has the size to play up in front of the net and long reach to retrieve rebounds. Even if he plays his off wing postion I think he is still better than playing at centre. I recalled that he had success playing the wing position with Eichel at the World champion games. Wonder why Isles managment and coaching can't see that at all?
It seems to me your giving up a bit much as Lee has established himself as a true offensive threat/first line winger, yes he plays with JT but he is a power forward willing to take the abuse dished out in the slot, will go to the corners and win battles a respected team player and was a goal scorer in collage before playing w/JT. I would remove the first and offer a second rounder but honestly I don't think you could sell this to Tavares.
 
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Poliz24

Registered User
Jun 25, 2012
1,116
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LI
I have come to realization that Garth Snow is immune from being fired. He will be our GM until he either quits or passes away in office. He probably has a 35 year contract that pays him an insanely cheap number like 250K a year or something crazy Wang made up when he hired him. The new owners love it because he is cheap and "knows hockey". I don't know if his terms were ever released when hired by Wang. He might be our GM for life!
 

Instant

Registered User
Feb 20, 2018
2,259
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WHY, why would you say something like that...

83360467.gif
 

aronjudge11

Registered User
Jul 2, 2017
1,017
222
Hes like herpes here forever. Doesnt matter who buys the team in 5 years from malkin Snow comes with the team. Gotta keep wangs tradition of nepotism failure and loyalty going forever and ever.
 

ALEXIVICH CHULKATURI

Registered User
Dec 5, 2010
1,381
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HILTON HEAD ISLAND
Every UFA he's allowed to leave have flopped plus his trades are about .500. Add to the fact the man has a respectable draft record outside the top 10. It's not his fault his captain has shit the bed on him and is a reason why I trust him with the contract this summer. Our GM has a number in his head and if the captain deems it to low, good riddance. His gut was right on Okposo and Nielson, it will be right on this one. One more thought if I may Gibson looks like a star. Barzal and Gibson are the cornerstones. And then we have Sorokin hopefully coming three years from now. Our GM has been let down by four players

Tavares
Halak
Greiss
Ladd

Hopefully we'll be rid by all four in the upcoming years.
 

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