GDT: Game 9: Coyotes Posters @ Islanders | 4:00 p.m. PDT | FS-A | 620 AM
- Thread starter Summer Rose
- Start date
Statistically, they deserve a better fate. These results are usually a comedy of errors or bad luck, of which the coaching staff can only do so much. There's a big difference between being winless and completely out of games vs being winless and being in almost every game until something goes horribly wrong. If the team had trapped their way to one or two wins but got blown the f*** out in the other games like in previous seasons I wouldn't suddenly feel great about the team.
Feeling in the dumps is for teams like the Rangers or Montreal, teams that haven't changed much and have legit playoff aspirations but nothing to show for it.
I will take my doubly entertaining team and enjoy it, even in the losses. I'm not passing final judgment until they get stable goaltending and Chychrun back. If they're poopy then, by all means riot in the streets.
Bonsai Tree
Turning a new leaf
- Feb 2, 2014
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Chychrun is not the second coming of McGinnis. Raanta is not the second coming of Patrick Roy.
Entertainment means not leaving a game each and every time disappointed with a loss.
Perhaps they could win just a few ugly, boring games, as a special favor to me? Then they could go back to losing time and again by playing "exciting hockey."
Entertainment means not leaving a game each and every time disappointed with a loss.
Perhaps they could win just a few ugly, boring games, as a special favor to me? Then they could go back to losing time and again by playing "exciting hockey."
They looked better as a team and I think they outplayed the Islanders. Winning, thats what I'm here for, still boils down to good goal tending and mistakes. There goal tending was better and we still made more critical mistakes. Raanta coming back will hopefully solve one of the problems.
_Del_
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2003
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Noons is happy that we don't have a win yet. We're happy that the team is playing in a way that is extremely competitive, and better than their record.
We went from playing 15-30 minutes of hockey with the rest of the time standing around watching Mike Smith to 40-55 minutes of hockey-- all in one off season. Over the stretch, with an actual goaltender, that is going to mean more wins. That's a pretty big step.
And yes, it's frustrating. Especially a few of the repeat offenders who seem to be making the mistakes that end up in our net.
But on the whole, if you play this way every night, you're going to get your share of wins.
We went from playing 15-30 minutes of hockey with the rest of the time standing around watching Mike Smith to 40-55 minutes of hockey-- all in one off season. Over the stretch, with an actual goaltender, that is going to mean more wins. That's a pretty big step.
And yes, it's frustrating. Especially a few of the repeat offenders who seem to be making the mistakes that end up in our net.
But on the whole, if you play this way every night, you're going to get your share of wins.
- Sep 29, 2016
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I don't see the foundation. A few good young players for sure but the roster is a mess. Just doesn't fit...too many pieces missing. They might win a few games sooner or later but they're bound for last place...just as I predicted.
Just wondering who gets booted first...coaching staff or front office. While I think that Coaching has been terrible, I see that they have little experience and a very tough job with this roster. I'd go with Chayka and co. for sure. They're responsible for this. They decided to lose several players to Free Agency for nothing and they decided not to sign any FA's. The trades they made were terrible since they traded the farm without making up for the FA's they lost. The only trade I like is the Demers trade but that alone shouldn't save their job. At the end of the day this team is rebuilding and the management did exactly the opposite of what you're supposed to do during a rebuild. They let FA's go instead of signing new ones and they traded the farm instead of trying to land more assets to boost the rebuild. And by doing all of this, they even made the team worse than it was before. Barroway must be beyond pissed the way this is going...
I can't think of a single team that successfully completed a rebuild by trading the farm and letting players walk for free. Honestly not. That's just not how it works...
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RemoAZ
Let it burn
I think we have put together, at times, a solid first line Domi-Stepan-Keller and 4th line Martinook-Richardson-Rieder. The other line combos have looked like names being pulled out of a hat. We need MORE TALENT in that middle six. The Richardson line gives plenty of good defense, hustle and effort. The other lines have to be talented with a threat to score. That middle six should include Strome, Dvo, Perlini, Fischer, Duclair and Crouse with Merkley on their asses if he stays atop the points board in Tucson. Other than the Perlini injury, why they are f***ing around with these other guys when we have highly drafted, talented players to teach and develop is beyond me. I thought that was why the change was made and Tocc was picked. This is what continues to disappoint me about this season.
Bonsai Tree
Turning a new leaf
- Feb 2, 2014
- 9,238
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I'm having fun watching. Couldn't say that much for the past few years.
The farm as in Anthony DeAngelo, another guy that will never play a game in the nhl and a 1st in weak draft, that farm?
You get more ridiculous in every post you post. The only thing that was worth something that was given up was DeAngelo who by all accounts has looked terrible on a semi decent Rangers team.
You act as if we gave up Strome, Keller and Perlini. Our UFA’s consisted of Martin Hanzal, Mike Smith and Shane Doan, one of which was a liability and no longer plays anymore.
Smith ran his course, and likely will be declining soon, if not already. “I broke my back and pulled something every 3rd game” Martin Hanzal is currently playing 3rd line minutes where he had belonged his entire career, in Dallas.
The acquisitions made were complete upgrades on those game changing UFA’s.
f***ing delusional to think this teams record would be any different with those names on the roster. I’d much rather watch us play the way we have then watch the piss poor, mind numbing trap that we watched with Tippet.
You don’t like the team and the way things have gone? Bounce man. You came around recently, you’re on just about everyone’s ignore list because of the same song and dance you preach.
Follow Calgary and Dallas if you’re so in love with Smith and Hanzal. I’m sure Tippet will get a job soon, maybe that’ll be your team, but you bring nothing but the same old shit time and time again.
Bonsai Tree
Turning a new leaf
- Feb 2, 2014
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I have absolutely no issue with an uptempo system as long as the players can adhere to it well enough to win.
Its really pathetic to see all these fans console themselves with the aesthetics of our losing team. Bunch of 3rd generation Cubs fans from the '90s.
Its really pathetic to see all these fans console themselves with the aesthetics of our losing team. Bunch of 3rd generation Cubs fans from the '90s.
PhoPhan
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2002
- 14,724
- 100
There were some positives tonight. Lots of negatives, but some positives. With an actual NHL goalie in net tonight, they probably win. Domingue never looked like the second coming of Martin Brodeur, but he's regressed significantly this year. I don't know what happened to him.
I'm sympathetic to the argument that the underlying numbers suggest a team better than their 0-8-1 record, but not by much. With a little more luck, they're maybe a 2-5-2 team. Still not great, but a little closer to what I was expecting.
Overall, though, I'm still not seeing any semblance of a system in place at either end of the ice. No one seems to have any sort of assignment, nor any clue where anyone else is supposed to be. It's why there have been so many blown assignments in the defensive zone and so many turnovers at both ends. It's why only the guys with really high end hockey sense (really just Keller and Domi) are making things happen offensively. I always felt the rigidness of Tippett's system was overstated anyway, but you need some kind of structure out there, and 9 games in, I'm not seeing any progress on that front.
The games are more exciting because they're playing at a higher pace, but that's of little value in the abstract. It's not going to win you more games on its own, and I'm worried that if conditioning is already an issue, how is this team going to look in February after a few more months playing at this tempo?
I'm sympathetic to the argument that the underlying numbers suggest a team better than their 0-8-1 record, but not by much. With a little more luck, they're maybe a 2-5-2 team. Still not great, but a little closer to what I was expecting.
Overall, though, I'm still not seeing any semblance of a system in place at either end of the ice. No one seems to have any sort of assignment, nor any clue where anyone else is supposed to be. It's why there have been so many blown assignments in the defensive zone and so many turnovers at both ends. It's why only the guys with really high end hockey sense (really just Keller and Domi) are making things happen offensively. I always felt the rigidness of Tippett's system was overstated anyway, but you need some kind of structure out there, and 9 games in, I'm not seeing any progress on that front.
The games are more exciting because they're playing at a higher pace, but that's of little value in the abstract. It's not going to win you more games on its own, and I'm worried that if conditioning is already an issue, how is this team going to look in February after a few more months playing at this tempo?
_Del_
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2003
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This is particularly ironic coming from one of the biggest cheerleaders of our 89W-157L regime over the past three years. That team could do no wrong. Nine games into a bad start in the standings, but good change on ice, and the games are suddenly unwatchable.
RemoAZ
Let it burn
I get the frustration with the losses. Some probably liked the more controlled, predictable style we played before too. This is a lot of change to swallow especially when it comes with a boat load of losses. Hopefully we turn it around soon and everyone hops back on the wagon. I think the best case scenario for this season is we're playing really good by the end, all our high picks have defined roles and are developing and we still get a high good pick. It's going to take a lot of really good players to make of for having no great ones.
- Sep 29, 2016
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Well, I will admit that I always liked Hanzal (trading him was still the right thing to do) and if you knew me as well as you pretend to, then you should know that I never liked Smith and was more and more upset with Tippett as well. I never blamed anybody for trading away vets or firing Tippett.
Regarding FA's you shouldn't forget that they also let others like Burmistrov or Vrbata walk for free. I'd be fine with that, they're not exactly cornerstones you build around. But if you let that many established vets walk for nothing then you also have to take something outta that FA pool. It's how a rebuild works. Trade vets for assets...the more vets you have, the more vets you sign, the more of them you can flip ahead of the deadline. Chayka has to go back to the drawing board and learn the GM's 101...
Again...letting Burmistrov walk is something you can do but not if the replacement is a useless plug like Cousins...and I didn't even mention that Chayka gave up a pick to get him...
Regarding deAngelo...the Rags are a complete mess. Not his fault that nobody on this team knows how to defend...even McDonagh is a turnover machine. They were blaming Girardi for every single loss last season...now they know why he had to play all season long despite being badly injured. Vigneault had no options.
Name me one franchise that successfully completed a rebuild by trading for vets...then we'll talk again. I'm more than curious because I can't think of single one. You typically rebuild by filling your prospect pool and acquiring picks, not by trading for vets. You can do some sort of a hybrid rebuild for sure but that's only possible with a solid foundation of top players and a full solid pool. Don't think the Coyotes are in the position to do this.
Toadie
Registered User
the loses suck but I am actually watching all 60 minutes of the games this year so far.. 40% brilliant 30% so so and 30% burning bag of dog poop but there is growth.. not slow painfully degenerative team of last year. Toc was pissed on the bench, I kinda feel bad for the team. They played well just no puck luck.
Bonsai Tree
Turning a new leaf
- Feb 2, 2014
- 9,238
- 4,576
This is particularly ironic coming from one of the biggest cheerleaders of our 89W-157L regime over the past three years. That team could do no wrong. Nine games into a bad start in the standings, but good change on ice, and the games are suddenly unwatchable.
You really like this shit on ice? If they skate even faster back and forth will you like it even better? Hate the trap? Hate the dump and chase? Or do you just hate Tippett so much that you need to prop up this poor excuse for a head coach whose system is to simply skate really, really fast? I see defensemen out of position all the time, multiple odd man rushes against us every game, and overall a game of pond hockey by players far to skilled to still be playing on the pond.
Some are blinded by Tippett hate. Some, after years of poor teams, clutch the hope of a new regime tight to their hearts. Open your eyes, people and really look at the game. The Coyotes are playing some very bad hockey right now.
Bonsai Tree
Turning a new leaf
- Feb 2, 2014
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As for cheerleading, we'll agree to disagree upon who is to blame for the previous 5 years. I always felt that the anxiety of never knowing if and when players and their families would be displaced and relocated in a franchise move, the bare bones budget that didn't allow enough talent scouting, and the piss poor talent on the roster were the major causes of the playoff draught. We played awful for quite a few years, but it wasn't due to Tippet. No coach could have done better.
Now we have talent and stability with Barroway, and the results are worse.
Burmistrov was a waiver pick up, we spent nothing on him and he was an invite to a camp, what do you expect to get in return? He wasn’t replaced by Cousins, he was replaced by one of Keller, Fisher and then, Strome, so take your pick on his replacement.
Vrbata was a one trick pony, a slow footed (not where the team was heading with the new system) streaky goal scorer. Again pick your replacement above.
Those vets that were brought in were natural leaders. Stepan couldn’t have fit the mold any better. A 27 yr old, consistent producer that had never missed the playoffs. Hjalmarsson won 2 cups in Chicago and was said by many to be a top 5 shit down d man in the league.
2016 Chyka pulled Keller and chychrun in the same draft. Two guys that will be NHL stalwarts as opposed to a lot of draftees who rarely make it to the league.
The rebuild is still in effect, with marketable talent. You don’t go and spend money on aging vets to fill out a roster, especially on a budget team.
Domi
Dvorak
Duclair
Perlini
Keller
Reider
Chychrun
Strome
Fischer
Are beautiful young peices to build around and add too. That’s what Chyka did.
Stepan
Hjalmarsson
Raanta
Demers
Are solid additions and not overly aged to support that young core.
On paper (completely different than the teams performance on the ice, clearly) this is by far the best team assembled in years.
Not much more you could have asked for out of Chyka. He did his job, he got the talent in very mysterious ways and for cheap. It’s on Tochett, the coaching staff and the players to put it together and to perform. It’s certainly not happening as fast as we’d like but the majority of the players on the roster are learning a completely new system. They’ve never played any other way since entering the league than what Tippet preached.
It was a time for a change and you can see that change, just may take longer than we’d like.
Bonsai Tree
Turning a new leaf
- Feb 2, 2014
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Vegas players underwent even more change and they have played far better than our team. My beef is that the players are skating around and suddenly have no idea where they are supposed to be, who or where they are supposed to cover, and who and how to outlet a pass. These are coaching issues. Tocchet just hasn't been able to get the team to buy into his system. The team plays very fast and very stupid.
_Del_
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2003
- 15,426
- 6,738
BT said:
Heaven knows we saw none of that in the past 246 games in which we managed only 89 wins. This is a HUGE step back!
Nine games under Tocchet has made the team unwatchable. You regret having STs, and everything was so much better last year which started 2-6-0 and later had its own nine game losing streak amidst a 3-12-4 stretch spanning late November to early January. How we pine for those glory days after being subjected to these past nine games of decent hockey under the worst staff ever. This nine game stretch is finally where we draw the line.
Am I getting the narrative you guys are pushing?
Coyotedroppings
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2017
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The team's improving, they Doan know how to win yet, need to capitalize on 5 on 3's and need a goalie that can make a save, or two that shouldn't be made, but improving - they are.
- Sep 29, 2016
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This is just making excuses. The Coyotes lost a pretty good player in Burmistrov for free and paid to get a useless plug instead. Strome isn't even on the roster and should have never been in the first place (as I said btw). Keller should be with him in Tucson. All his points don't help when he's a healthy -8 despite getting crazy amounts of offensive zone starts like nobody else. His allround game is beyond terrible and I called that as well. He couldn't even defend to save his life.
I don't know who told you that but that's exactly how a rebuild works. Every single recent successful rebuild I can think of worked that way. I can only repeat myself here...name me only one that worked out well when a team traded the farm for vets during a rebuild...
That "budget team" obviously has enough money to pay the vets they traded for...
I'm not a Tippett fan but you really can't blame Tippett for everything that goes wrong now.
