News Article: Friesen on Sawyer and the hazing incident

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Mortimer Snerd

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I agree, what a nightmare. Why should anyone have to apologize just because they did something reprehensible to a teen they were supposed to teach and look after? A forced apology is the real crime here

Some thought and contrition has to go into even forced apologies. The hope is that by the time the person has made the apology he/she has acquired some understanding of what he/she did wrong.

If Sawyer apologizes only for his bad joke, he hasn't got it yet. He needs to apologize for not stepping in to protect the young player and for his attitude that led to the bad joke.

Maybe it is naive of me but I hope I will be able to tell if Sawyer has figured it out yet or not by his apology. Of course it will have been written by his lawyer. It won't be his own words. We'll see.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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According to an article in the Free Press it was a birthday prank by the players and not the coaches. He wanted to say something but TSN told him not to. No idea why they would do that. Well a bunch of us me included will be eating the crow.

Why will you be eating crow? Or a bunch of "us"?
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Sounds like someone who feels he doesn't have to respond to a question just because there is a mic in front of his face.

So you figure he would rather just let people jump to the conclusion that he wasn't OK with it? It isn't like he has never been interviewed before.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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You must have a very different definition of speculation cause i didn't see one post or article that had any facts in it.

Are you suggesting that Sawyer didn't say what everybody heard him say? It was only speculation that he said it, not factual?
 
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blues10

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Hockey Canada developed the Speak Out! program in 1997 in order to educate and prevent bullying, harassment and abuse in hockey across Canada. Since then, a comprehensive program of training, education and awareness of bullying, harassment and abuse has been accomplished through workshops, resource materials and branch and association initiatives. All of these factors have focused on coaches, managers, safety people, parents, players and administrators.
Furthermore, it is the policy of Hockey Canada that there shall be no abuse and neglect, whether physical, emotional or sexual of any participant in any of its programs. Hockey Canada expects every parent, volunteer and staff member to take all reasonable steps to safeguard the welfare of its participants and protect them from any form of maltreatment.

Hockey Canada Safety Downloads


I for one am looking forward to what Sawyer has to say and as I've said before he has a platform for some positive change as an on air broadcaster of NHL hockey 60 some games a season.

A good read on the subject.
Hazing incident shoots hockey player into drugs, crime

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mani...oots-hockey-player-into-drugs-crime-1.2501727
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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On the other hand, had Spurgeon spoke up, people would have immediately discounted his testimony as "Stockholm Syndrome", just like they did when Oliver Kylington openly and baldly stated Peters never exhibited one iota of racism as Flames coach, nor maltreat him in any way. How many people even realized that Kylington is exactly as African as Akim Aliu, never mind be willing to give his testimony one drop of weight?

Entirely possible.

I don't think hazing is OK, even if the victim does accept it. They accept it because of peer pressure. They may even take some perverse pleasure in it, but again, peer pressure.

Hazing is something that demands zero tolerance. Zero tolerance is overused these days but it is required with hazing. Nothing less gets the job done.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Totally agree.
So many outraged people without their own blemishes that need to hear someone else’s apologies for something that really has nothing to do with them.
GJG
Let’s just watch hockey again!

I'm not outraged by this incident. But I support the efforts to stamp out hazing from our society. It is just one part of the abuse of power that seems to be everywhere. Hazing is not the power of great wealth or exalted position, but it is the power of the peer group. It is a form of bullying. I am against bullying. I'd bet real money that you are too.
 

AlphaLackey

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You must have about zero understanding of power dynamics to not realize that even if Kylington had experianced racism he would not have been able to call out his coach in the media.

Your post started with "even if Kylington had experianced racism he would not have been able to call out his coach in the media", which is a direct reply to my post that made the very point, right at the very beginning, that Kylington's testimony operated under such dynamics. You know, where I literally described it as being like "Stockholm Syndrome"? Where I literally state that "silence speaks volumes" is bankrupt thinking because "speaking up would also be suspect"?

If you're going to suggest that my post is the "height of ignorance", you can start by actually reading it.

Also what are you trying to do with talking about exactly how 'African' you perceive Kylington or Aliu to be?

There exist people who judge the validity of a person's arguments entirely and only by what the speaker's demographics are. Whatever grounds such a person would have to pre-judge Aliu's words as "valid by default", the exact same grounds exist to pre-judge Kylington's words as "valid by default." Those grounds are objective, not "what I perceive".

"What I'm trying to do" is point out that such people are rank hypocrites who quickly and easily discard the absolute doctrines of their identity politics the instant those doctrines become inconvenient. Because they are, and they do.

The fact that they are both half black has nothing to do with the explicit racism that was directed at Aliu.

Of course not. It has everything to do with, "if you believe in identity politics and presumably aren't a hypocrite, then the exact same grounds to pre-judge Aliu's words about what Peters was like ten years ago are in play to pre-judge Kylington's words about what Peters is like today.

Do you think these two hockey players would have all the exact same life experiences just because they happen to be the same race? Your post is really the height of ignorance

You've really got this shit down pat, don't you?

* Ask rhetorical question completely unrelated to a post
* Assume an answer in the least charitable way possible
* Discredit other party on moral grounds based on assumed answer.

Kafka would be so proud.

Not that you care, but the answer to your question is "no, I don't think that."

Identity politicians and allegedly progressive SJW types think that, however, and they spoke up by the legion about this incident.
 
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han316

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I think you are misinterpreting what you are reading. I rather like Sawyer. I don't like how he does his job. I don't like his joke. I don't like that he doesn't grasp the downside of hazing.

Mostly, I hate hazing and bullying and abuse of power. Not about Sawyer at all, really.


I'm not misinterpreting anything.

If you hate bullying that much I would expect you to be active in the community, not sitting behind a keyboard worrying how this 30 year old with a 7 yr 50 million contract is going to handle all of this.
 

tbcwpg

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Please be careful with using terms like "SJW" and "identity politics". In this type of thread it's relevant but political talk on a team board is not allowed, and if the conversation goes too far into generalities, we may have to delete or close the thread.
 
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Stumbledore

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No - but it is in the policies of many organizations. It could also be considered bullying. Any statutes mention bullying? I'd bet that it also quite often crosses the line to become assault. I know that is in the statutes.

Assault is a criminal matter and the Criminal Code of Canada is a federal statute. Read it for yourself here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/

If you want to search the CCSM, go here: https://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/index.php
 

Mortimer Snerd

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I'm not misinterpreting anything.

If you hate bullying that much I would expect you to be active in the community, not sitting behind a keyboard worrying how this 30 year old with a 7 yr 50 million contract is going to handle all of this.

Nothing there to convince me that you are not misinterpreting. A lot of people here are speaking out against abuse. You are attributing their position to hatred of one individual. You are completely misunderstanding the conversation, in my opinion.

I do my simple best on a lot of things in my community. You have no knowledge of what I do when I am not behind my keyboard.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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han316

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Nothing there to convince me that you are not misinterpreting. A lot of people here are speaking out against abuse. You are attributing their position to hatred of one individual. You are completely misunderstanding the conversation, in my opinion.

I do my simple best on a lot of things in my community. You have no knowledge of what I do when I am not behind my keyboard.


Why would i need to convince you? i could care less.

What abuse happened? none.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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Why would i need to convince you? i could care less.

What abuse happened? none.

Everyone who went through a hazing ritual of some kind was abused. This time, specifically, Spurgeon.
 
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Stumbledore

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Yes, I know. That's my point. I don't think it is necessary for the word "hazing" to be in the statutes for laws to be broken. Also, when organizations formalize their policies, they are legally required to abide by them.

Hate to keep picking on you here, Mort, but - once again - no.

An organization is not legally required to abide by any of its policies. They can approve them, promulgate them, print them in letters 30 feet high and tattoo them on peoples' foreheads, but there is no legal requirement to abide any policy. They are simply that: policies.

You might be thinking of statutes, regulations or by-laws, which are a completely different thing. Then you might try arguing estoppel or tort law if you want to seek a civil remedy for any violation, but - once again - there is nothing illegal in ignoring a policy.
 
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Eyeseeing

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I'm not outraged by this incident. But I support the efforts to stamp out hazing from our society. It is just one part of the abuse of power that seems to be everywhere. Hazing is not the power of great wealth or exalted position, but it is the power of the peer group. It is a form of bullying. I am against bullying. I'd bet real money that you are too.
I totally am against bullying I was bullied in junior high I am against singling people out to serve an agenda
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Not interested in tears of shame. An apology, yes. Just bring some closure to this already...

:laugh: I mean figurative tears of course.

If it is just a canned apology delivered by rote, I will not be satisfied. If he has had his eyes opened by this incident, then all is forgiven, as far as I am concerned.
 
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