News Article: Friesen on Sawyer and the hazing incident

[Eyeseeing]

Skeletons in the closet of probably every analyst and commentator.

And HF posters.

 

[Chiarelli]

This same thing was done to me at a catholic high school for charity and organized by teachers. That was 10 years ago. But the teachers took part and encouraged students to pay to throw things at me. I was a willing participant which is the only real difference. This really isn’t a big deal imo

 

[Eyeseeing]

Yes and why has this apology taken so long? Tsn doesnt want him to do anything until they say so? Sawyer should get ahead of this thing if he knows what's good for him (cue the jokes about if Kevin Sawyer knows anything at all).

I agree with Duke..
Apologize and move on.
Going back in time and demanding penance is so stupid, what’s done is done.
There are many cases of multiple apologies done for the same things done many years ago that they actually ring hollow in the sincerity department.

 

[Jedub]

I agree with Duke..
Apologize and move on.
Going back in time and demanding penance is so stupid, what’s done is done.
There are many cases of multiple apologies done for the same things done many years ago that they actually ring hollow in the sincerity department.

I agree too. Just not sure what they're waiting for.

 

[TS Quint]

I get what you are saying - but in today's society hazing is not acceptable, even in those cases where the victim was in on the fun. Hazing will always escalates until it goes way over the line. So I don't think it is necessary to hear from the player.

But in this case we heard that he doesn't want to talk about it. Does that sound like a fond memory from his youth?

That said, I don't want to burn Sawyer at the stake. A good apology and demonstration that he gets it would satisfy me.

Yes, it is entirely possible, even likely that no one got hurt and it was just boys having fun.

 

[blues10]

It's a moot point whether Spurgeon was having fun being saran wrapped to a post as a 15 year old minor. A 31 year old associate coach in a position of authority was in violation of CHA policy at the time.

There are policies and laws in place for the protection of minors. In this case specific CHA policy.

If Spurgeon was 18 at the time of the incident it could be a different story as a consenting adult. However, it would still be a hazing violation as Sawyer was a person of authority even though the player would have been of the age of majority in the state of Washington.

That is all moot too as Sawyer himself confirmed Spurgeon was a 15 year old minor.

The long and the short of it is that it doesn't matter if it was the best day of Spurgeon's life having his teammates and coach saran wrap him to a post as it appears to be in clear violation of the CHA hazing policy in place in 2005.

 

[MardyBum]

Sawyer was what, 31 when he hazed a 15 year old kid?

This isn't a kid who's more senior on a hockey team hazing a younger player. Coaches being involved in this shit is creepy and disgusting.

 

[han316]

It's a moot point whether Spurgeon was having fun being saran wrapped to a post as a 15 year old minor. A 31 year old associate coach in a position of authority was in violation of CHA policy at the time.

There are policies and laws in place for the protection of minors. In this case specific CHA policy.

If Spurgeon was 18 at the time of the incident it could be a different story as a consenting adult. However, it would still be a hazing violation as Sawyer was a person of authority even though the player would have been of the age of majority in the state of Washington.

That is all moot too as Sawyer himself confirmed Spurgeon was a 15 year old minor.

The long and the short of it is that it doesn't matter if it was the best day of Spurgeon's life having his teammates and coach saran wrap him to a post as it appears to be in clear violation of the CHA hazing policy in place in 2005.

How do you know it was a clear violation? how do you even know it was hazing?
if the kid wanted to be saran wrapped than it's clearly not hazing.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

And HF posters.

No skeletons here. Just don't check my cookies.

 

[Eyeseeing]

No skeletons here. Just don't check my cookies.

Nice

 

[blues10]

How do you know it was a clear violation? how do you even know it was hazing?
if the kid wanted to be saran wrapped than it's clearly not hazing.

By definition hazing can occur with the participants full consent. That is part of why it has been so difficult to eradicate in North America.

The state of Washington has had laws in regards to hazing on the books since 1993 and no one is yet to be prosecuted yet it continues.

Sure, maybe this wasn’t hazing. Coach Sawyer was simply running his Saran Wrap to the pole mental toughness drill. Very common in the all junior leagues in North America.

As many posters have suggested it may have been in Mr. Sawyers best interest to clarify the story and apologize if warranted.

Thus far it has been crickets but sure sounds like hazing.

Maybe something will come of this maybe nothing. It has certainly opened up an excellent dialogue on policy, those in a position of authority and the definition of willful participation in hazing.

 

[cbcwpg]

When players do things to other players without consent or even with, as part of some team building exercise, society labels it as “hazing”. Like is a ritual or right of passage. And there is lots of debate over this, obviously.

But here’s another word for you. When an adult does something like what Sawyer admitted to participating in, against a legal minor.. its called assault. And that is a criminal offence. So yeah, maybe people want to give Sawyer a pass because it occurred years ago, but Sawyer just admitted to committing a crime, on TV.

And if I was the parent of the player that Sawyer wrapped to a pole and I was just finding out about it now, I would be talking to the authorities.

 

[han316]

By definition hazing can occur with the participants full consent. That is part of why it has been so difficult to eradicate in North America.

The state of Washington has had laws in regards to hazing on the books since 1993 and no one is yet to be prosecuted yet it continues.

Sure, maybe this wasn’t hazing. Coach Sawyer was simply running his Saran Wrap to the pole mental toughness drill. Very common in the all junior leagues in North America.

As many posters have suggested it may have been in Mr. Sawyers best interest to clarify the story and apologize if warranted.

Thus far it has been crickets but sure sounds like hazing.

Maybe something will come of this maybe nothing. It has certainly opened up an excellent dialogue on policy, those in a position of authority and the definition of willful participation in hazing.

Can you back up your definition on hazing? i would love to be educated if there was a court case that defines hazing in such a manner.

There's a bunch of kids on YouTube who have been subjected to saran wrap hazing if we go by that definition.
Also not sure why people think it was Sawyer who had the saran wrap in his hands.

 

[han316]

When players do things to other players without consent or even with, as part of some team building exercise, society labels it as “hazing”. Like is a ritual or right of passage. And there is lots of debate over this, obviously.

But here’s another word for you. When an adult does something like what Sawyer admitted to participating in, against a legal minor.. its called assault. And that is a criminal offence. So yeah, maybe people want to give Sawyer a pass because it occurred years ago, but Sawyer just admitted to committing a crime, on TV.

And if I was the parent of the player that Sawyer wrapped to a pole and I was just finding out about it now, I would be talking to the authorities.

haha easy now.

 

[Calendal]

Can you back up your definition on hazing? i would love to be educated if there was a court case that defines hazing in such a manner.

There's a bunch of kids on YouTube who have been subjected to saran wrap hazing if we go by that definition.
Also not sure why people think it was Sawyer who had the saran wrap in his hands.

If those kids on youtube are getting wrapped as part of an initiation ritual then it could definitely constitute hazing.

Being a willing participant really has little to do with it. Of course, if the target is unwilling, then assault might be more appropriate description.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Sawyer was what, 31 when he hazed a 15 year old kid?

This isn't a kid who's more senior on a hockey team hazing a younger player. Coaches being involved in this **** is creepy and disgusting.

Kinda my thoughts as well.

Weird for a coach to be involved, in any manner of a hazing, even if he didn’t participate.

Weirder yet, when asked, this was Sawyer’s most favorite memory of Spurgeon.

Not watching him grow as a player, take a step in his development or a special play Spurgeon may have produced during Kevin’s time coaching him.

Nope, seeing him saran wrapped to a pole was what Sawyer liked most..

But hey, if you’ve ever seen Scheif in his underwear.....

 

[Gil Fisher]

Deleted

 

[blues10]

Can you back up your definition on hazing? i would love to be educated if there was a court case that defines hazing in such a manner.

There's a bunch of kids on YouTube who have been subjected to saran wrap hazing if we go by that definition.
Also not sure why people think it was Sawyer who had the saran wrap in his hands.

Sawyer wouldn't need to have the saran wrap in his hands as a person of authority it would have been his responsibilty to stop the actions and report to the management and league what had taken place. From his own recollection of the story as it was his favourite Jared Spurgeon moment it appears that he made no effort to stop any actions.

I am sure some lawyers on the boards would be more familiar with cases that have been successfully prosecuted or perhaps a google search may even turn some up. I do not know criminal law.

It is more likely to be a CHA violation. As Moe Mantha received a 25 game suspension for this incident the same season perhaps Sawyer would face something similar if returned to coaching.

As coach and general manager of the team, Mantha is willing to take his share of the blame for what happened on the Windsor bus that night on the way home from a road game, when rookies were told by veterans to strip off their clothes and cram themselves into the tiny washroom at the back of the bus.
Mantha maintains that while all this happened, he was sound asleep at the front of the bus. He was suspended 25 games by the OHL and was prepared to take his medicine, but never got the chance. Steve Riolo, then owner of the Windsor team, fired Mantha before he’d served out his suspension.

Eleven years later, Mantha back in the hot seat

Hazing is any action taken or any situation created intentionally that causes embarrassment, harassment or ridicule and risks emotional and/or physical harm to members of a group or team, whether new or not, regardless of the person’s willingness to participate.
You are being redirected...

Washington State Law
WAC 132Q-10-218:

A snippet of CHA regulations from 2000 if someone has the full regualtion in place in 2005 it would be great to see.

The Canadian Hockey Association, which governs amateur hockey, has a regulation against condoning or participating in hazing with a penalty of a one-year suspension. But even that is negotiable: the rule states that if the suspension causes “undue hardship” to the team, a lesser penalty can be imposed with the approval of CHA officers.

A great read showing the issues of hazing 5 years prior to the 2005 incident involving Sawyer and Spurgeon
THE HELL OF HAZING | Maclean's | March 6, 2000

Current hockey Canada policy
https://cdn.hockeycanada.ca/hockey-...s/Safety/Speak-Out/Downloads/bullying_eng.pdf

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

And for the record I don’t think Sawyer should be fired over the Spurgeon comments.

What he should be fired for is he tends to say stupid things on air, which the Spurgeon comments are an example of.

 

[blues10]

A sign of what may eventually take place in regards to Sawyer and his role with TSN3 is the Bell TV advertisement with Sawyer. If it is still running I fully expect him to resume his colour commentator role with TSN3. If the ads are no longer airing it could be a sign of what may take place.

 

[han316]

Hazing is any action taken or any situation created intentionally that causes embarrassment, harassment or ridicule and risks emotional and/or physical harm to members of a group or team, whether new or not, regardless of the person’s willingness to participate.

So the majority of people on reality TV are hazing themselves? ha jokes... not really tho

I find it hard to believe in this particular case that the kid would feel any of the above if he was indeed willing to do so for a laugh which is how i'm viewing this incident. Until someone else who was part of it steps up and states otherwise i think it's reckless to come to any other conclusion and start vilifying the poor guy.

That Mantha case is very different, i highly doubt anyone wanted to be in that washroom for laughs.

The cases in the MacLeans article are clear hazing cases.

thanks for digging that stuff up! that definition doesn't make sense to me.. i just think of all those JackA... movies and it just doesn't add up!

 

[han316]

If those kids on youtube are getting wrapped as part of an initiation ritual then it could definitely constitute hazing.

Being a willing participant really has little to do with it. Of course, if the target is unwilling, then assault might be more appropriate description.

I think it means everything.

 

[tbcwpg]

I think it means everything.

Means less at the age of 15 than an adult. There's also a lot of pressure to consent at that age and that situation.

 

[sting13]

A sign of what may eventually take place in regards to Sawyer and his role with TSN3 is the Bell TV advertisement with Sawyer. If it is still running I fully expect him to resume his colour commentator role with TSN3. If the ads are no longer airing it could be a sign of what may take place.

It was on during yesterday's game.

 

[Al Camino]

The comment about him looking like he was 12 was what got to me. Implies a few disturbingly things about the incident.