Friedman 31 Thoughts (Jets)

[truck]

I don't doubt it. Just asking. Having a full year of AHL under his belt is probably enough.

The reports are from HF Jets posters who have watched him play. There have been plenty of them. Most have said they don't think he is quite ready in his own zone. That would be at the time of the report. I don't take it as a projection to TC. Take it for what it is worth.

To be fair, we've heard the same about pretty much everyone over the years. He's not polished there yet but he's got the smarts required to hawk pucks in the NZ and keep it up ice. He's also got the skating to make up for brain farts.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Because he has the ability to control where he wants to go

And why would someone who is content to play in Ottawa not want to play in Winnipeg?

 

[ffh]

And why would someone who is content to play in Ottawa not want to play in Winnipeg?

because he lives in Ottawa year round, has played in Ottawa for a decade and has married someone from Ottawa.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

To be fair, we've heard the same about pretty much everyone over the years. He's not polished there yet but he's got the smarts required to hawk pucks in the NZ and keep it up ice. He's also got the skating to make up for brain farts.

Good to hear. I really don't think Chevy plans on having Toby back. Probably would have signed him by now. If that is the case then there is a good chance he is planning on Niku being ready. I would prefer a better 'plan B' than Chiarot though.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

because he lives in Ottawa year round, has played in Ottawa for a decade and has married someone from Ottawa.

That all supports the idea of him staying there. He has said he wants to get paid (don't blame him). If Sens aren't prepared to pay and aren't building a winner then I don't see why Winnipeg wouldn't be an alternative.

I can't see him coming here because he won't fit under the cap unless we dump some good players. Not because he won't agree.

 

[garret9]

All reports I've read suggest he is not ready yet. Still needs work on his D zone play. It isn't just a matter of age.

The question is simple. Is he likely to progress enough further in the remainder of this season to be ready for full time play in the NHL next year? This is a question best answered by those who have watched him play for the Moose this year.

Sounds like Josh Morrissey when he was in the A...

 

[Aavco Cup]

Sounds like Josh Morrissey when he was in the A...

Exactly. People form strong opinions and have never or rarely watched them play a game.

 

[KingBogo]

Karlsson will never agree to be traded to Winnipeg. I get we’re trending upwards as a franchise, but its not happening

Agreed it is very unlikely to happen, but he can only not agree to be traded to Winnipeg if we are on his 10 team no trade list. For a player who has never sipped from the cup, it would be a little strange to strike off the team 3rd in league wide standings a year+ from UFA status. You'd think a competitive guy like Karlsson would use his no trade options for non contenders.

 

[mondo3]

We're probably closer to the top of his "trade to" preferred list

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sounds like Josh Morrissey when he was in the A...

I remember opinion on Josh being more split. Lots were quite confident he was ready and lots of others thinking he needed another year or was a bust. A few in the middle.

I'm not debating Niku's readiness, one way or the other. Just acknowledging a lot of posters who had watched him and raved about his skating, vision, offense but were less than thrilled with his defensive play.

I'm optimistic. It seems common for prospects at that stage to finish a season at one level and start the next at another, like it digests over the off season.

 

[Jets2point0]

Agreed it is very unlikely to happen, but he can only not agree to be traded to Winnipeg if we are on his 10 team no trade list. For a player who has never sipped from the cup, it would be a little strange to strike off the team 3rd in league wide standings a year+ from UFA status. You'd think a competitive guy like Karlsson would use his no trade options for non contenders.

Yes, but with the parity now and seeing that 16 teams will make the playoffs (and Jets havent proven anything yet) Winnipeg is absolutely on his 10-team no trade

 

[Jets2point0]

That all supports the idea of him staying there. He has said he wants to get paid (don't blame him). If Sens aren't prepared to pay and aren't building a winner then I don't see why Winnipeg wouldn't be an alternative.

I can't see him coming here because he won't fit under the cap unless we dump some good players. Not because he won't agree.

See post above

 

[KingBogo]

Yes, but with the parity now and seeing that 16 teams will make the playoffs (and Jets havent proven anything yet) Winnipeg is absolutely on his 10-team no trade

I'm not sure how you'd know that Winnipeg is absolutely on his no trade list? Have you seen any credible sources saying so? If you have please share as that would be very interesting. Do you know from first hand information? That would be even more interesting. If not and it is only your opinion and nothing absolute and an anti Winnipeg bias that is not very interesting a all.

 

[Whileee]

Sounds like Josh Morrissey when he was in the A...

I think Niku needs very similar development to Morrissey. Morrissey needed to learn to play a more aggressive and urgent defensive game to take away time and space. Once he did that, everything fell into place. When I've watched Niku play his skill and skating stand out at the AHL level, but he still lacks urgency and intensity in his own zone defensively. The Jets have thrived this year defensively by playing a very tight defensive game. Once Niku adds that extra drive, he'll be ready.

 

[Jets2point0]

I'm not sure how you'd know that Winnipeg is absolutely on his no trade list? Have you seen any credible sources saying so? If you have please share as that would be very interesting. Do you know from first hand information? That would be even more interesting. If not and it is only your opinion and nothing absolute and an anti Winnipeg bias that is not very interesting a all.

Ill happily place a real money bet with you, heck ill even give you 10:1 odds

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Ill happily place a real money bet with you, heck ill even give you 10:1 odds

2 things:

1. No bets for money on HF. You can make an avatar bet (or something else non-monetary), but no bets for $$ can be arranged here.
2. How are you going to get a hold of his no-trade list? Without this, the outcome would be based on someone's opinion, and not fact. Is it likely? Sure, but without the actual list, it's not 100% provable.

 

[ps241]

To be fair, we've heard the same about pretty much everyone over the years. He's not polished there yet but he's got the smarts required to hawk pucks in the NZ and keep it up ice. He's also got the skating to make up for brain farts.

Sounds like Josh Morrissey when he was in the A...

Exactly. People form strong opinions and have never or rarely watched them play a game.

I remember opinion on Josh being more split. Lots were quite confident he was ready and lots of others thinking he needed another year or was a bust. A few in the middle.

I'm not debating Niku's readiness, one way or the other. Just acknowledging a lot of posters who had watched him and raved about his skating, vision, offense but were less than thrilled with his defensive play.

I'm optimistic. It seems common for prospects at that stage to finish a season at one level and start the next at another, like it digests over the off season.

I think Niku needs very similar development to Morrissey. Morrissey needed to learn to play a more aggressive and urgent defensive game to take away time and space. Once he did that, everything fell into place. When I've watched Niku play his skill and skating stand out at the AHL level, but he still lacks urgency and intensity in his own zone defensively. The Jets have thrived this year defensively by playing a very tight defensive game. Once Niku adds that extra drive, he'll be ready.

This is a good debate. Is he or isn’t he ready?

I think every prospect has their path and they all won’t be the same. I would love for a switch to go off for Niku and have him transform his defensive game like Morrissey did but that might not happen. The transformation of Josh’s game was almost bizarre in one season in the AHL and I am not expecting us to capture lightning in a bottle twice.

I remember watching Sergachev in Windsor last year and thinking how good he looked but his “defensive consistency” was not NHL ready. It turns out I was partially right and he would have his ups and downs this season but mostly I was wrong due to undervaluing the team’s ability to shelter him and his ability to adapt to a new challenge given his skill set. Mikhail still makes mistakes but he is in the right league and he is thriving.

Sami is not Mikail or Josh but he will have his path too. At some point here budget is going to get real fast and we will need cost controlled assets playing in the NHL. I wish I could tell you what is going to happen next year but I can’t. I feel Niku will be able to play a sheltered bottom pairing role as soon as next season but I have no idea if the Jets are going to take that risk yet.

Still lots of season and post season left to play out then a full off season of development so let’s see how things look in September. I think we all agree on one thing though.....how cool is it to be having this debate about a really talented 7th round draft pick!!!

 

[TorJet]

I'm not sure how you'd know that Winnipeg is absolutely on his no trade list? Have you seen any credible sources saying so? If you have please share as that would be very interesting. Do you know from first hand information? That would be even more interesting. If not and it is only your opinion and nothing absolute and an anti Winnipeg bias that is not very interesting a all.

Winnipeg and Edmonton are the two teams most likely to appear on “no-trade lists” per this article and others: Report: Oilers, Jets top no-trade lists - Article - TSN

This may have changed slightly as the fortunes of the jets have changed, although I believe it’s from the year we made the playoffs.

As such, it is a reasonable assumption that Winnipeg (and Edmonton) is a team on a specific no trade list until proven otherwise. As much as we love Winnipeg and many players come to love the city, it’s still cold and lacks the perceived sexiness for a young athlete that LA, New York, Tampa and even Florida and Phoenix have. There’s also an incredible spotlight shone on the players in this market, which not everyone may want. This is just a reality.

 

[puck stoppa]

I think Niku and Poolman could man our bottom pair next season. There are 3 good RHD ahead of Tucker though so not sure how that happens. Niku is an absolute stud. He plays a bit of a risky game at times in the AHL which you can get away with more than the NHL. (ala old Buff) He'll just have to pick his spots a bit better in the NHL.I don't think he's bad in dzone but needs to continue to use his smarts as Whilee says to position himself better and use his strengths to his advantage in his own zone. The games Ive seen he makes mistakes more often than you'd like to see, as those need to be limited at next level, but I think he learns and improves quickly as his IQ is thru the roof, he will adapt well.
I personally see Jets signing Enstrom to a cheap team friendly one year deal, I see both sides agreeing to such a deal, Toby gives us depth and Chevy will like that if he's cheap as I think Toby will want to see it thru one more year as we'll be good. IMO Niku would start in AHL but get recalled and play in the NHL next season, kind of like Roslo's path this year.
But he's wowed me everytime Ive watched him play, talented kid who will play top 4 one day.

 

[KingBogo]

Winnipeg and Edmonton are the two teams most likely to appear on “no-trade lists” per this article and others: Report: Oilers, Jets top no-trade lists - Article - TSN

This may have changed slightly as the fortunes of the jets have changed, although I believe it’s from the year we made the playoffs.

As such, it is a reasonable assumption that Winnipeg (and Edmonton) is a team on a specific no trade list until proven otherwise. As much as we love Winnipeg and many players come to love the city, it’s still cold and lacks the perceived sexiness for a young athlete that LA, New York, Tampa and even Florida and Phoenix have. There’s also an incredible spotlight shone on the players in this market, which not everyone may want. This is just a reality.

I don't see it as a reasonable assumption that any team near the top of the standings would be on a top of a no trade list 1+ years away from UFA status. Karlsson is not making a long term commitment to a city he would be chasing a cup before being able to call his own shot where he wants to land for as much as he could squeeze out. Long playoff runs and a cup likely further enhances his bargaining power over a couple seasons on an also ran. IMO any player who wants to win would first and foremost look at who is on the current roster and if he thinks they can win this season and next. If a player just wants to join a train wreck somewhere so he can spend off days at the beach I'd hope we are on his no trade list.

 

[TorJet]

I don't see it as a reasonable assumption that any team near the top of the standings would be on a top of a no trade list 1+ years away from UFA status. Karlsson is not making a long term commitment to a city he would be chasing a cup before being able to call his own shot where he wants to land for as much as he could squeeze out. Long playoff runs and a cup likely further enhances his bargaining power over a couple seasons on an also ran. IMO any player who wants to win would first and foremost look at who is on the current roster and if he thinks they can win this season and next. If a player just wants to join a train wreck somewhere so he can spend off days at the beach I'd hope we are on his no trade list.

You may not see it as subjectively reasonable, however the only empirical evidence I’ve found (polling of player agents) suggests that Winnipeg and Edmonton are the two teams most likely to appear on a no-trade list. As such, if we are to use the empirical evidence we have at hand to make an assumption, it would logically be that the jets would appear on a given no-trade list (along with the oilers).

Perhaps that is changing, but for many reasons I would imagine those two teams would still be near the top in terms of no trade list appearances.

 

[KingBogo]

You may not see it as subjectively reasonable, however the only empirical evidence I’ve found (polling of player agents) suggests that Winnipeg and Edmonton are the two teams most likely to appear on a no-trade list. As such, if we are to use the empirical evidence we have at hand to make an assumption, it would logically be that the jets would appear on a given no-trade list (along with the oilers).

Perhaps that is changing, but for many reasons I would imagine those two teams would still be near the top in terms of no trade list appearances.

Which makes sense. Both teams have been bad and they are winter cities. Especially polls done prior to the start of the season. IMO once you get in season and for players with short contract commitment virtually all decisions will default to what are my chances of winning a cup. I'd argue a player like Karlsson who has never won a cup but has had a taste of playoff success will be almost guaranteed to be willing to readjust a no trade list for an opportunity to win.

For a player not to, is saying I'd rather be a loser in nice weather than win. Wouldn't want that player anyways.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Winnipeg and Edmonton are the two teams most likely to appear on “no-trade lists” per this article and others: Report: Oilers, Jets top no-trade lists - Article - TSN

This may have changed slightly as the fortunes of the jets have changed, although I believe it’s from the year we made the playoffs.

As such, it is a reasonable assumption that Winnipeg (and Edmonton) is a team on a specific no trade list until proven otherwise. As much as we love Winnipeg and many players come to love the city, it’s still cold and lacks the perceived sexiness for a young athlete that LA, New York, Tampa and even Florida and Phoenix have. There’s also an incredible spotlight shone on the players in this market, which not everyone may want. This is just a reality.

It really doesn't matter whether or not Winnipeg is on his current no trade list. In a hypothetical deadline deal, all that matters is if he would waive it now if the Sens had a deal in place with the Jets. Things like this happen all the time. It's where the Jets are in the standings and the perception around the league that the Jets are contenders that make it possible. Many players who had Winnipeg on their no trade lists would now be willing to waive to come here.

 

[ps241]

It really doesn't matter whether or not Winnipeg is on his current no trade list. In a hypothetical deadline deal, all that matters is if he would waive it now if the Sens had a deal in place with the Jets. Things like this happen all the time. It's where the Jets are in the standings and the perception around the league that the Jets are contenders that make it possible. Many players who had Winnipeg on their no trade lists would now be willing to waive to come here.

Yea especially short term as a rental for a playoff run.

 

[KingBogo]

It really doesn't matter whether or not Winnipeg is on his current no trade list. In a hypothetical deadline deal, all that matters is if he would waive it now if the Sens had a deal in place with the Jets. Things like this happen all the time. It's where the Jets are in the standings and the perception around the league that the Jets are contenders that make it possible. Many players who had Winnipeg on their no trade lists would now be willing to waive to come here.

That's how I see it. No doubt Winnipeg was at the top of many no trade lists at the start of the season. But if hockey players really want to win as much as they say they do (which I believe) I'd argue over and over again that the biggest deciding factor on waiving a no trade clause would be their perception of the team's chances to win a cup in conjunction with what role they would play in that cup run.