Friedman 31 Thoughts (Jets)

[scarbrow21]

Its definitely an interesting idea but I would say it adds an element of risk to the offseason. Trades in this league are scarce these days so acquiring a player with the intent to flip them might not unfold as one would anticipate. You might get stuck with a player you had originally intended to flip due to their not being the type of market you might expect.

We also hear that a number of the trades that do happen in this league tend to take months to come to fruition which would also add a wrinkle to to the this scenario.

"Stuck" with Erik Karlsson for an extra year at 6.5M...woes the Jets!!!

Kidding aside I like the idea but the problems it presents can't be ignored. First off I don't think you trade for him, then trade him next year to recoup assets. He's too good to let go like that considering the reason you're going after him in the first place (to win the cup). Second, it could be helpful or very hurtful in contract negotiations with Trouba in that he's now no longer the top pairing guy. If they then move Trouba for a boat load of assets and use the CAP space to re-sign Karlsson I'd probably be ok with that...except you'd STILL need to add 3-4M.

It's a cool to think about, but Chevy wouldn't make that kind of a deal

 

[surixon]

"Stuck" with Erik Karlsson for an extra year at 6.5M...woes the Jets!!!

Kidding aside I like the idea but the problems it presents can't be ignored. First off I don't think you trade for him, then trade him next year to recoup assets. He's too good to let go like that considering the reason you're going after him in the first place (to win the cup). Second, it could be helpful or very hurtful in contract negotiations with Trouba in that he's now no longer the top pairing guy. If they then move Trouba for a boat load of assets and use the CAP space to re-sign Karlsson I'd probably be ok with that...except you'd STILL need to add 3-4M.

It's a cool to think about, but Chevy wouldn't make that kind of a deal

Good post. Another issue is the cap, you still have to be compliant by the start of next season. If you can't pawn off the player you acquired you might be forced to sell off other valuable assets that you didn't want to sell.

Depends on cost in the end. Others are free to disagree but high cost rentals rarely work out for teams. If you want the player I question your better to acquire them to be on the team for a while as in many cases it takes until the next season for them to get comfortable in the team setting and contribute.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

"Stuck" with Erik Karlsson for an extra year at 6.5M...woes the Jets!!!

Kidding aside I like the idea but the problems it presents can't be ignored. First off I don't think you trade for him, then trade him next year to recoup assets. He's too good to let go like that considering the reason you're going after him in the first place (to win the cup). Second, it could be helpful or very hurtful in contract negotiations with Trouba in that he's now no longer the top pairing guy. If they then move Trouba for a boat load of assets and use the CAP space to re-sign Karlsson I'd probably be ok with that...except you'd STILL need to add 3-4M.

It's a cool to think about, but Chevy wouldn't make that kind of a deal

I think the suggestion was Trouba for Karlsson so we don't need to worry about Trouba.

I agree that you would need to be aware of the risks - but since when is GM'ing in the NHL not a high risk business? If you make that trade with the intention of moving him at the draft you have to stick to that plan, IMO. You mess up when you start to second guess yourself. You would certainly be able to move a player of Karlsson's calibre with 1 year remaining at the draft. You might be a little disappointed at the return. **** happens.

Not saying you should or should not do it - but if you make a sound decision, in your own estimation and do it, then you need to commit to that decision.

 

[Guffman]

So yeah...trying to upgrade on Enstrom would be nice, so we could have nice depth at LHD for the playoff run. It will be interesting what Chevy decides to do to arm this team. Hate to see any current roster players sit though.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Considering Toby would be the odd LD out if we upgraded, I'm not seeing much smoke.

Would be an interesting move though.

OEL? Yes please.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Back to Friedman - does it seem like he is pumping Vincents tires? Is Vincent going to be on the list of potential HC's?

 

[Jimby]

Given his record in the AHL so far I am sure he is being noticed. He has all the requirements to be the head coach of the Canadiens some day.

Back to Friedman - does it seem like he is pumping Vincents tires? Is Vincent going to be on the list of potential HC's?

 

[KingBogo]

Back to Friedman - does it seem like he is pumping Vincents tires? Is Vincent going to be on the list of potential HC's?

I would say there is a good chance for this at some point in the future. Especially if he adds a Calder Cup to his resume.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Back to Friedman - does it seem like he is pumping Vincents tires? Is Vincent going to be on the list of potential HC's?

I assume Vincent & Keene are the two most interesting AHL guys If Montreal wants a change wouldn't he be a natural for them?

 

[scarbrow21]

I think the suggestion was Trouba for Karlsson so we don't need to worry about Trouba.

I agree that you would need to be aware of the risks - but since when is GM'ing in the NHL not a high risk business? If you make that trade with the intention of moving him at the draft you have to stick to that plan, IMO. You mess up when you start to second guess yourself. You would certainly be able to move a player of Karlsson's calibre with 1 year remaining at the draft. You might be a little disappointed at the return. **** happens.

Not saying you should or should not do it - but if you make a sound decision, in your own estimation and do it, then you need to commit to that decision.

If it's Trouba for Karlsson, as good as Karlsson is...easy pass from me. Trouba has the extra year, is younger, has less bargaining leverage and already meshes with the team. That alone out weighs whatever dynamic offence Karlsson brings that Trouba doesn't for me anyways. Besides we all know that the only acquisition WPG will make is someone like a Derek Ryan where we don't have to give up anything of significance for to add "depth"

 

[Jet]

This explains a lot to me about how he coached last year. I thought he coached like he didn't fully trust the players and this fits what I saw, very conservative and rigid. Glad he trusts them this season and I think the results show.

We also need to realize all of our young players have matured significantly from last year (mentally and physically), so the trust comes there too.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If it's Trouba for Karlsson, as good as Karlsson is...easy pass from me. Trouba has the extra year, is younger, has less bargaining leverage and already meshes with the team. That alone out weighs whatever dynamic offence Karlsson brings that Trouba doesn't for me anyways. Besides we all know that the only acquisition WPG will make is someone like a Derek Ryan where we don't have to give up anything of significance for to add "depth"

The original proposition was Trouba for Karlsson on the assumption that Trouba is going to leave anyway.

Just looking at it on the surface I tend to agree with you but the suggestion was to consider it a little differently. Do it with the intention of having Karlsson for this year only and flipping him at the draft. The return was speculated as being Sanheim plus 1st, currently 13OA or equivalent.

So Trouba nets us a boost for the rest of this season and a playoff. Karlsson has playoff experience, which we lack and his offense from the back end would be valuable. Plus we get those 2 pieces in return for Karlsson at the draft. There will be some very good D prospects available at 13 and a couple of interesting C prospects that we would not likely have a shot at with our pick.

So the question is this. Would the rental value of Karlsson plus the return on him at the draft equal good value for a Trouba who is going to leave us in 2 more years anyway?

 

[HPsauce]

If it's Trouba for Karlsson, as good as Karlsson is...easy pass from me. Trouba has the extra year, is younger, has less bargaining leverage and already meshes with the team. That alone out weighs whatever dynamic offence Karlsson brings that Trouba doesn't for me anyways. Besides we all know that the only acquisition WPG will make is someone like a Derek Ryan where we don't have to give up anything of significance for to add "depth"

There's a flip side to this, that Karlsson may sign long term here. To me his dynamic play is miles better than Trouba. If Trouba is in fact willing to sign here long term, then I would agree with you as he'll likely be playing in the league longer than Erik. If not, then I could see the argument that Karlsson might be a fit here in Winnipeg.

Is Trouba what the rumoured cost would be? Or is that speculation from someone on the forum? I would think trading Buff + 1st, + one prospect on the moose and one prospect in the system would be enough.. maybe too much.

That's if Buff was willing to accept the trade to Ottawa.

Either way, I can't imagine actually trading for Karlsson is even on the radar here...

 

[truck]

I'm hoping for somebody better than Chiarot on 3rd pair but also someone around the same pay level.

Sami Niku

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sami Niku

Do you think he will be ready?

 

[csk]

Do you think he will be ready?

Perhaps halfway through next season IMO

 

[Aavco Cup]

Do you think he will be ready?

Why wouldn't he be? He'll be 22

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why wouldn't he be? He'll be 22

All reports I've read suggest he is not ready yet. Still needs work on his D zone play. It isn't just a matter of age.

The question is simple. Is he likely to progress enough further in the remainder of this season to be ready for full time play in the NHL next year? This is a question best answered by those who have watched him play for the Moose this year.

 

[Aavco Cup]

All reports I've read suggest he is not ready yet. Still needs work on his D zone play. It isn't just a matter of age.

Which reports are those? Are you talking about people who post in this forum? The same ones who think buff should be in the AHL?

I certainly don't expect him to play on the Jets this year. But that doesn't mean he won't be able to next year. In fact his age seems just about the right time for a player to make the jump. That's all I was saying. I've watched him play on AHL live a few times and I don't think he's very far away at all.

 

[scarbrow21]

Which reports are those? Are you talking about people who post in this forum? The same ones who think buff should be in the AHL?

I certainly don't expect him to play on the Jets this year. But that doesn't mean he won't be able to next year. In fact his age seems just about the right time for a player to make the jump. That's all I was saying. I've watched him play on AHL live a few times and I don't think he's very far away at all.

Watching him play and taking all things into consideration (1st year in the AHL, age, coming from Liiga and playing on bigger ice) I think he's adapting very well and should be ready for next year. He won't be ready for top pairing certainly, maybe not even top 4 but 3rd pairing sheltered minutes behind Morrisey and Kulikov? Yup i think he'll be ready! Hopefully Samberg replaces him on the Moose to get some development time!

 

[truck]

All reports I've read suggest he is not ready yet. Still needs work on his D zone play. It isn't just a matter of age.

The question is simple. Is he likely to progress enough further in the remainder of this season to be ready for full time play in the NHL next year? This is a question best answered by those who have watched him play for the Moose this year.

I haven't seen any such reports. If I had, I wouldn't believe them. He's dominating at the AHL level and I'm pretty confident that he could play NHL now. There is little reason to believe that he won't be ready.

 

[Jets2point0]

Karlsson will never agree to be traded to Winnipeg. I get we’re trending upwards as a franchise, but its not happening

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I haven't seen any such reports. If I had, I wouldn't believe them. He's dominating at the AHL level and I'm pretty confident that he could play NHL now. There is little reason to believe that he won't be ready.

I don't doubt it. Just asking. Having a full year of AHL under his belt is probably enough.

The reports are from HF Jets posters who have watched him play. There have been plenty of them. Most have said they don't think he is quite ready in his own zone. That would be at the time of the report. I don't take it as a projection to TC. Take it for what it is worth.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Karlsson will never agree to be traded to Winnipeg. I get we’re trending upwards as a franchise, but its not happening

Care to supply some reason behind that?

 

[Jets2point0]

Care to supply some reason behind that?

Because he has the ability to control where he wants to go