Freep: Expected Holland moves during off-season?
- Thread starter InjuredChoker
- Start date
- Status
SportsballChic
Registered User
I dunno about Smith, I mean I believe but he was drafted in like 2007 right? That's a while ago. I wouldn't WANT to trade him but if the guy coming back was good enough. I do not want to give up Sproul for anyone who'd be available however.
I'm not saying I'd go bell tower or anything, but if Holland traded Sproul for "a guy" or even 'Bobby Ryan" I'd be legitimately upset/discouraged. Just no, we want to see this guy play out I think; he's got "the touch".
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Considering people like to hate on his defensive abilities the next statement should upset a few people. But I doubt Sproul ever gets as good defensively as Smith is right now.
SportsballChic
Registered User
okay 2 things: A) Sometimes that's the price you pay with an offensive defenseman; put him with a rock and hope.
B) I don't think Smith is bad defensively; I think he makes 3 bonehead decisions a game and I have no idea why or how to make him stop. It actually REALLY bothers me how good he can look for 50 minutes of a game if you take away the 3 "OMG please shoot me I can't watch this" horrible shifts he throws in. I don't understand Smith, I can tell he's VERY VERY good and then he... leaves Handzus alone in front of the net or gives Bickell a love tap and tries to play the puck in the damn blue ice. I just, do not, understand him at all.
I do think he's good tho. Very good. Just possibly also a bonehead.
Edit: do you follow football at all? You remember Leon Lett? Like that. There's no question the guy was a good, even GREAT player but you spent most of his career waiting for his next "bonehead" move. I worry that might be Smith because it's not like he's lost, he mostly does the right thing until the exact moment he doesn't. Maddening.
Last edited:
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Yeah Smith has a way of pretty much every single one of his mistakes ending up in the net. Really he actually has got some poor luck there in my opinion. But keep in mind he was playing as a #3 down the stretch in terms of ice time. He PK's and eventually he should get some PP runtime when Babcock gets his head removed from his *** for a brief time period, much like how we all wanted Kindl there for years and bingo guess what.
Which is another real problem for Sproul. I mean I think nobody on earth would be dumb enough not to insert him on the PP, but if there is one guy that won't in the entire league..... I think we know who that just might be.
I am not big on trading Sproul, but outside of Jarnkrok there is not a single prospect I protect in a Bobby Ryan deal. Any guy you can write 30 goal scorer next to is worth it, this is basically the Shanahan deal, you give up what you give up.
cupforwings09
Registered User
This guy on facebook who is a die hard red wings fan (and I only know through Letsgowings.com) posted a status that said "Red Wings in on Bobby Ryan". Has anyone else heard anything like this from a source?
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Take it for a grain of salt, It was on Hockeybuzz posted by Ecklund he was saying that both Detroit and Philly were after Bobby Ryan. But there's nothing coming out of Detroit to suggest such a move, Unless Holland is keeping it hush hush. The only one as of now that looks like he's going after is possibly Stephen Weiss from Florida other then that i have no clue.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Yeah, Eklund is money on Nashville and Philly but that's it.. But maybe he's heard from his Philly sources that Detroit is also competing for Ryan.
But nothing more than that.
Heaton
Moderator
I think we should give Smith a few years in the NHL, too. Instead of one shortened season with no training camp and huge amounts of transition. Not speaking to you specifically, but people sure gave up on him awfully quickly. We saw what happened with Kindl this year after a few years of supposed disappointment. I was one of those who gave up on him.
I don't give up on prospects very easily. But I never did see all the hype. Same with Kindl.
I think expectations were WAY too high.
But Smith, like Kindl, has really good points to his game that he'll build on. And you can see those, along with his flaws, virtually every shift.
While I think Smith is going to be a good offensive defenseman, I do not think he'll be a great offensive defenseman. His defensive positioning, which will improve, is pretty awful. His decision making is awful.
His decision making will improve, but it won't ever be top notch.
I can see him being a 15 goal 50 point guy with loads of PP time. But I can also see him always being a defensive liability.
The reasons I would trade him:
1) Probably our most valuable young asset (in terms of generating return).
2) if we move him, our defense is still fairly young - Kronwall, Ericsson, Kindl, Dekeyser, Quincey - whoever.
3) Dekeyser, Lashoff, Almquist, Ouellete, Sproul, Backman, Marchenko, Jensen -- We're going to need someone to make room for at least a couple of those guys.
Personally, if I was moving Smith, I'd want to move him for a true second line center with some size (not Stephen MakesMePukeEverytimeISeeHisName Weiss).
Last edited by a moderator:
Heaton
Moderator
Really? Hanzal is huge, but he's 26 with a best season of 35 points which happened in his rookie season. He'd be a pretty good upgrade over Andersson, but not for Smith and a 2nd. Even prorating this season only gets him to 43 points.
I'd rather take my chances on Stastny hitting the market, or possibly just trading for him instead.
43 points as second line center on a Tippett team.
Dude -- I keep bringing up the kinds of players your boy Babcock would kill for.
And everytime I do, you say, "Nah, I'd rather have some small guy" who Babcock won't want
I'm the guy who wants Babcock gone and you;re the guy with the mancrush.
Yet you don't want Babcock types and I do/
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
43 points as second line center on a Tippett team.
Dude -- I keep bringing up the kinds of players your boy Babcock would kill for.
And everytime I do, you say, "Nah, I'd rather have some small guy" who Babcock won't want
I'm the guy who wants Babcock gone and you;re the guy with the mancrush.
Yet you don't want Babcock types and I do/
That is a very interesting point.
I think Babcock would do backflips if they brought in Hanzal.
Of course he likes Smith too, so he was probably on his keeper list. Also kind of misses the fact the Coyotes have so many young talented D-man they are okay with shipping Yandle out for a massive over-payment.
Most likely target, your favorite Tatar.
Heaton
Moderator
Probably because I think 'Babcock types' are a fallacy. Babcock wants guys who can play, period. I think people are skewed because we saw Hudler get played down the lineup due to matchups and Abdelkader/Cleary put up because of their 'size'. Truth be told, Babcock hasn't had a lot of choices. Plug one hole and another opens up, we need scoring, Babcock recognized that - which is why I thought getting proven scorers is better.
As for Hanzal specifically, I think he'd be a good addition, but not for Smith and a 2nd, big time overpayment. Stastny is 27 and good at both ends of the ice, he'd be a fine 'Babcock type'.
As for Hanzal specifically, I think he'd be a good addition, but not for Smith and a 2nd, big time overpayment. Stastny is 27 and good at both ends of the ice, he'd be a fine 'Babcock type'.
Last edited:
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,243
- 14,753
He absolutely has his "favorites", and people who don't think so are naive. It's part of coaching/management, and it is perfectly normal. Just sucks when a guy that is a "favorite" is broken down and and keeps getting thrown out in important situations (Cleary) over other alternatives.
Heaton
Moderator
There's no doubt every coach looks for specific players to fit their coaching style, but good players play regardless of the style.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Phoenix has poor C depth so doubt they give up on Hanzal.
He is also on a VERY sweet deal for next 4 years.
Don't forget being paired with Quincey. While Q shaped up the second half, he's still far from a dependable defenseman. And though he is okay at getting the puck out of danger areas, he sucks at putting them into smart places. Basically, they quickly manage to end up back on the other team's stick.
And yeah, no shortage of defensemen who take a little longer to develop. Kindl and Ericsson are just two of them and they've been here for less than 5 years! Dmen just take longer. Smith's barely had what, like 50 games? Let's. Be. Patient.
I think it's like this.
Is the guy bad because he's just bad? Or can you see the skill, the potential, the hockey sense, but he's making a few bad mistakes a game? There's a difference. Some defensemen just don't have any real tools. And when you watch them, it's hard to see how they might improve because they aren't ever showing you anything impressive. No doubt Smith has made a ton of costly mistakes this past season. But to me, he also showed a ton of offensive flair, even if they didn't show up on the scorecard. I think within the next two years, he settles down, finds his stride, starts putting up decent points, and cuts down on the errors.
Babcock likes "heavy" players. He's constantly talking about "heavy" guys and size. There is no fallacy here.
Hanzal is a good 2nd line center, right now, with decent contract. He's only 3 years older than Smith.
If Tootoo was 6'2, you think he'd be in the press box?
If Tatar was 6'3, you think he'd have been demoted?
Heaton
Moderator
Heaton
Moderator
Good 2nd line center in what way? He seems like a poor mans Jordan Staal. Do you think on the Wings with better linemates he'd be a 60pt player? I also think he looks more of a goal scorer than playmaker, no?
- Status
