Freep: Expected Holland moves during off-season?

[Heaton]

The Bobby Ryan I think of and the Bobby Ryan we saw in the playoffs were two different animals.
People barked about Corey Perry's slump, but he was everywhere, getting chances, creating chances....
Bobby Ryan was a complete non-factor

I think Perry is one of the most overrated players in the league, he had one huge season but the rest were pretty much standard for a 1st liner. I'll be surprised if he ever has another 80pt season, its really unacceptable for Ryan/Perry/Getzlaf to take years off like they did last year.

Perry is pretty good for fantasy hockey at least.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Bobby Ryan isn't worth it. He's more inconsistent than Johan Franzen.

 

[Frk It]

Bobby Ryan isn't worth it. He's more inconsistent than Johan Franzen.

Yeah, not even close.

He consistently scores more than Franzen
He consistently hits more than Franzen
He consistently plays more physical than Franzen
He consistently plays more engaged than Franzen

I have no idea what you are talking about, to be honest. Bobby Ryan is one of the best power forwards in the game. Probably him and Lucic would be the best. Lucic is more physical, Ryan is more skilled.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Stalberg - Datsyuk - Horton
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen
Tatar - Helm - Brunner
Abdelkader - Emmerton - Tootoo

Kronwall - Ericsson
Scuderi - Smith
Kindl - DeKeyser

I'd make a lineup that I expect but its too depressing (Cleary and Abdelkader in the top-six).

 

[Heaton]

Yeah, not even close.

He consistently scores more than Franzen
He consistently hits more than Franzen
He consistently plays more physical than Franzen
He consistently plays more engaged than Franzen

I have no idea what you are talking about, to be honest. Bobby Ryan is one of the best power forwards in the game. Probably him and Lucic would be the best. Lucic is more physical, Ryan is more skilled.

I think the point is, based on his skill and age he should be a lot better.

 

[Frk It]

I think the point is, based on his skill and age he should be a lot better.

He has played 4 full seasons so far in his career and he has put up 31, 35, 34, and 31 goals (from 08-12). How many guys in the league have more goals over the course of those 4 seasons.

Maybe 5?

I'd say he has produced very well so far in his career. Maybe he had a down year with the lockout-shortened season, but it was a bit of an odd year. He's only 26, I think he's get plenty more 30 + goal seasons ahead of him.

He also hits more than Franzen, and consistently plays more engaged and physical IMO.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Yeah, not even close.

He consistently scores more than Franzen
He consistently hits more than Franzen
He consistently plays more physical than Franzen
He consistently plays more engaged than Franzen

I have no idea what you are talking about, to be honest. Bobby Ryan is one of the best power forwards in the game. Probably him and Lucic would be the best. Lucic is more physical, Ryan is more skilled.

Maybe its my anti-Ducks bias but I just have never been impressed with Ryan. Even disregarding the past series (he's not THAT bad) I've never liked him. He's very hot and cold and tends to float. I'd rather move a big package for a young center as insurance for Pavel and Hank anyways.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I think I'd be willing to move Smith+Frk and the rights to Flip in a trade for Ryan.
But I don't see anyone being to interested in that from Anaheim's side

 

[Frk It]

I think I'd be willing to move Smith+Frk and the rights to Flip in a trade for Ryan.
But I don't see anyone being to interested in that from Anaheim's side

I'm a big fan of all 3 of those guys and I do that in a heartbeat. We likely don't have anything even close to Bobby Ryan coming up in our system.

 

[ricky0034]

Yeah, not even close.

He consistently scores more than Franzen
He consistently hits more than Franzen
He consistently plays more physical than Franzen
He consistently plays more engaged than Franzen

I have no idea what you are talking about, to be honest. Bobby Ryan is one of the best power forwards in the game. Probably him and Lucic would be the best. Lucic is more physical, Ryan is more skilled.

since 2008-09(Bobby Ryan's first full season):

Ryan:

142 goals(.40 GPG) 279 points(.79 PPG)in 355 games

10 goals(.42 GPG) 15 points(.63 PPG) in 24 Playoff games

Franzen:

115 goals(.39 GPG) 222 points(.76 PPG)in 292 games

25 goals(.40 GPG) 51 points(.82 PPG) in 62 Playoff games

that offense looks pretty damn even to me

 

[crashman]

I am a Stuart fan -- probably the biggest on this board.
Still, it boggles my mind that anyone could suggest what you just did.

I watch a lot of the Sharks this year and Stuart was the same old heart-and-soul guy. Hard hits. Tough plays in front of the net. Sacrificing the body to make spectacular goal-saving plays. And yes, the occasional glaring giveaway.

Kyle Quincey is nowhere near as good as Stuart.

Comparing Quincey to Stuart is like comparing Kronwall to Lidstrom.

Kyle Quincey is barely an NHL caliber defenseman

Here's something interesting to note.
Quincey and Stuart were virtually the same in terms of icetime in the playoffs
19 minutes a game
Quincey played 3 more games.

Hits Stuart 30 Quincey 14
Blocked Shots Stuart 25 Quincey 9

If people want to argue that Ericsson replaces Stuart, that's one thing. The stats make that something to look at.
But IMO, the eyeballs still make this a win for Stuart, who a ruggedness and toughness about him that make him more valuable.

But Quincey? Not even close.

I knew you were a Stuart fan, that's partly why I said it.

I'm a huge Stuart fan too and the stats you posted are telling, but Quincey is NOT "barely an NHL caliber defenseman". The guy has been misused since he was brought back, and he's slowly developing into a Stuart type role, whether he likes it or not. He's also not the softy that you seem to be painting him as. He has way more offensive potential than the role he's been placed in allows him to showcase, much like Stuart before he came to Detroit.

If my comparison to Stuart is so extreme that you think it's like comparing Kronwall to Lidstrom, then you just took the Quincey hating to the opposite extreme by saying he's barely fit for the NHL.

Give him a full season in Detroit, I really think people around here will have a different (more positive) opinion of Q in a year (assuming he doesn't get traded...but he certainly won't be bought out, nor should he be).

Saying nice things about Quincey on these boards might be the most unpopular thing I could do, but I just think the circumstances surrounding the re-acquisition of the guy has clouded people's opinion and has made it almost impossible to judge him objectively.

 

[Frk It]

since 2008-09(Bobby Ryan's first full season):

Ryan:

142 goals(.40 GPG) 279 points(.79 PPG)in 355 games

10 goals(.42 GPG) 15 points(.63 PPG) in 24 Playoff games

Franzen:

115 goals(.39 GPG) 222 points(.76 PPG)in 292 games

25 goals(.40 GPG) 51 points(.82 PPG) in 62 Playoff games

that offense looks pretty damn even to me

142 is not close to 115. That's 27 more goals. That's basically an extra season worth of goals over the same period of time since.

 

[Heaton]

He has played 4 full seasons so far in his career and he has put up 31, 35, 34, and 31 goals (from 08-12). How many guys in the league have more goals over the course of those 4 seasons.

Maybe 5?

I'd say he has produced very well so far in his career. Maybe he had a down year with the lockout-shortened season, but it was a bit of an odd year. He's only 26, I think he's get plenty more 30 + goal seasons ahead of him.

He also hits more than Franzen, and consistently plays more engaged and physical IMO.

I disagree, those are the reasons why Ryan's name has been consistently brought up as trade bait.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

142 is not close to 115. That's 27 more goals. That's basically an extra season worth of goals over the same period of time since.

The number or games played in that time span aren't really close either (355 vs 292), GPG is damn near equal at .39 (mule) and .40 (ryan)

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

142 is not close to 115. That's 27 more goals. That's basically an extra season worth of goals over the same period of time since.

In 63 more games. Their GPG is nearly identical.

 

[Frk It]

The number or games played in that time span aren't really close either (355 vs 292), GPG is damn near equal at .39 (mule) and .40 (ryan)

Maybe Franzen should be more durable like Bobby then

 

[Frk It]

To me Bobby Ryan and Franzen aren't even close to on the same level. But I guess I just like Bobby Ryan.

 

[SportsballChic]

I think I'd be willing to move Smith+Frk and the rights to Flip in a trade for Ryan.
But I don't see anyone being to interested in that from Anaheim's side

Maybe while we're at it we could offer them 2 shiny nickles and the Coke machine from the player's dressing room for Cam Fowler?

(I'm just teasing you. Also, I lust after Cam Fowler; my bad. )

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Maybe Franzen should be more durable like Bobby then

Durable=consistent now? Hmmm.

 

[Frk It]

Durable=consistent now? Hmmm.

It's hard to score goals when you're not playing.

 

[HTT3*]

I don't like Bobby Ryan especially for giving assets up for. If he was a UFA and could be had for a bargain, I'd be all for it. But to trade prospects? No thnks

And Stuart is half of what he use to be. Quincey has been good for us. I shutter to think what the team looks like without him.

 

[YostisHome]

I have never been a big Quincey fan but I really like what I saw from him this playoffs...when he plays physical, especially in front of the net he's a pretty solid player... As long as his game without the puck continues to improve I may change my mind about him.

 

[Eastopia]

It's hard to score goals when you're not playing.

Franzen does that 30 times per season.

 

[ricky0034]

142 is not close to 115. That's 27 more goals. That's basically an extra season worth of goals over the same period of time since.

Maybe Franzen should be more durable like Bobby then

To me Bobby Ryan and Franzen aren't even close to on the same level. But I guess I just like Bobby Ryan.

being durable is nice and all but saying they aren't even close despite having near identical per game stats over a 5 year period just because one of them played a few more games just seems wrong

the reality is the vast majority of Franzen's missed games came from a torn ACL a few years ago,that's not really even not being durable but the kind of thing that could pretty much happen to anyone at any time

other than that Franzen's missed 29 combined games in the other 4 years of this timeframe

one has to wonder if perhaps Ryan wouldn't miss some games too if he had to play as many Playoff games as Franzen,this isn't a small amount of extra wear and tear we're talking about here. Franzen has played 38 more Playoff games than Ryan over the past 5 years and on top of that has had constantly shorter offseasons as a result

 

[SportsballChic]

I have never been a big Quincey fan but I really like what I saw from him this playoffs...when he plays physical, especially in front of the net he's a pretty solid player... As long as his game without the puck continues to improve I may change my mind about him.

I have... not been the biggest Quincey fan, especially this season. I also don't hold high hopes for the future, I don't think he's ever going to actually realize his enormous talent for us. Ever.

I do have to agree though he seems to be getting a bit of a bad rap with people considering how well he played in the playoffs. I don't like the guy, but it's not completely impossible that he turned it around late and is going to be a much better player going forward. I mean if I'm not mistaken, he spent a lot of time handcuffed to Smith and that's GOTTA make it hard on an offensive defenseman; you can't jump into the play with any confidence because you have a lunatic kid (albeit a talented one) as a partner.

Again, I really don't think this is going to work out long term at this point but I think Quincey's playoff at least earned him the right to prove people wrong next season.