Free Agent/Trades 2015: Offer Sheets, Buyouts, Terminations & Free Agency

[TheCLAM]

I'm all for guys with intimidation. It's a big reason why I think Dion Phaneuf has a lot of value. Even Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren showed they could do more than just fight. Although guys like them are not really useful anymore when you could get someone like Sam Carrick there instead. Carrick is a good fighter, but when he's not fighting, he's still a very useful player. Those are the type of players that need to be the new "enforcers" in the league.

I just don't want John Scott in the league. Or any dirty enforcers. Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren were always there to provide energy, put up some big hits and protect the teammates. I don't remember a time they were sent out to injure another team's player (other than punching them in the face in a legit fight).

One of the best open ice hitters in the league by far

 

[piikerr]

I'm all for guys with intimidation. It's a big reason why I think Dion Phaneuf has a lot of value. Even Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren showed they could do more than just fight. Although guys like them are not really useful anymore when you could get someone like Sam Carrick there instead. Carrick is a good fighter, but when he's not fighting, he's still a very useful player. Those are the type of players that need to be the new "enforcers" in the league.

I just don't want John Scott in the league. Or any dirty enforcers. Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren were always there to provide energy, put up some big hits and protect the teammates. I don't remember a time they were sent out to injure another team's player (other than punching them in the face in a legit fight).

I agree 100% John Scott and Matt Cooke and Sean Avery shouldnt even be considered. Im just saying that guys that can play a little dump and chase hockey, make a big hit, and spark the boys with a fight get the ball rolling sometimes and gets the other team off of its game. I sure as hell wouldnt wanna play against Brown, Orr, McLaren, and I damn sure wouldnt want Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook out there either

 

[The Magic Man]

I agree 100% John Scott and Matt Cooke and Sean Avery shouldnt even be considered. Im just saying that guys that can play a little dump and chase hockey, make a big hit, and spark the boys with a fight get the ball rolling sometimes and gets the other team off of its game. I sure as hell wouldnt wanna play against Brown, Orr, McLaren, and I damn sure wouldnt want Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook out there either

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember Avery ever being dirty. Just really annoying.

 

[piikerr]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember Avery ever being dirty. Just really annoying.

He liked to take cheap shots behind plays. He wouldn't break your neck with a hit from behind, but he would take a nice hack at the ankles, or cheap shot at the goalie.

 

[TheCLAM]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember Avery ever being dirty. Just really annoying.

He gave TT a nice little tap with his stick on the back of his mask. The YT video is classic Thomas freaking out ahaha

 

[RLF]

Umberger's salary is $4.6. As an "example", if they were to retain $1.7 m in a trade, the Flyers would reduce their team cap by $2.9 m.

Salary cap sites have them at over at about $500 k over cap (different sites present different info), so they don't need to make big adjustments. They are well below cap in 2016/17 and thus in good shape at that point.

Lastly, Flyers have depth and quality defenders in their prospect pipeline. A panic strategy is not necessary because they will graduate defenders to the big club in due course anyhow.

Does any one even want Umberger at $2.9 per for the next two seasons? I doubt it, unless you are really willing to sweeten the pot...which I already said would likely be needed. It could cost a prospect/pick like Lindholm and nothing in return except $2.9 in cap space. Now try and move MacD as well. Another retention for longer term and give another pick/prospect? How is that better? How have they improved except for cap space?

As for 2016/17, I guess we differ here as well. I don't call being at $61mil with only 9 forwards, 4 D and two goalies signed being in good shape. Considering B. Schenn and Gudas are RFA (which I already went over this in my previous post) Assuming Schenn gets $4mil and Gudas $2mil, they will be at $67mil with 3 forwards and 2 D left to sign and 3 horrible contracts in Vinnie, Umberger and MacD. Not good shape to me.

Yes the Flyers have great D prospects (again I noted that, in trading from a position of strength), but promoting them all at once or too close together is not the best idea.imo Who plays with them? MacD, Del Zotto, Gudas and the soon to be 38 year old Streit. How does this improve the D on a non-rebuilding team?

You say it' would be a panic strategy on Philly's side, I wonder what it will be called next summer, with little cap room and Vinnie, MacD and Umberger still on the team.

 

[namttebih]

I know that these trades rarely (never) happen but how's the value/need factor?

JVR and Dion at $5.5M

Draisaitl, Nurse, Purcel/Pouliot and Nikitin

$8.25M our way $9.75M theirs.

EDM solidifies top 6 and 4 to compete now.

We get two high end prospects for the rebuild.

 

[RLF]

I know that these trades rarely (never) happen but how's the value/need factor?

JVR and Dion at $5.5M

Draisaitl, Nurse, Purcel/Pouliot and Nikitin

$8.25M our way $9.75M theirs.

EDM solidifies top 6 and 4 to compete now.

We get two high end prospects for the rebuild.

It's an interesting idea that may help both teams in the direction they are going, but if I am retaining $1.5M on Dion, I am not taking 2 cap dumps in Purcel/Pouliot and Nikitin. Dion at $5.5M should have very good value and JVR already has very good value.

Plus numbers are off a bit, yes it is $9.75M their way, but ours is $1.5M(Dion), $4-$4.5M(Pouliot/Purcell), $4m(Nikitin), $1.73M(Nurse if he makes the team and hits bonuses), $3.4M Draisaitl(If he makes team and bonuses). Minimum of $9.5M(Dion, Pouliot, Nikitin) as much as $15.13M and we would have two bad contracts for at least a year that belong to 2 vets we don't need.

I may be interested if we didn't retain on Dion and the cap dumps were the 1 year deals of Purcell and Nikitin, but as it sits, I would say no to it.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's an interesting idea that may help both teams in the direction they are going, but if I am retaining $1.5M on Dion, I am not taking 2 cap dumps in Purcel/Pouliot and Nikitin. Dion at $5.5M should have very good value and JVR already has very good value.

Plus numbers are off a bit, yes it is $9.75M their way, but ours is $1.5M(Dion), $4-$4.5M(Pouliot/Purcell), $4m(Nikitin), $1.73M(Nurse if he makes the team and hits bonuses), $3.4M Draisaitl(If he makes team and bonuses). Minimum of $9.5M(Dion, Pouliot, Nikitin) as much as $15.13M and we would have two bad contracts for at least a year that belong to 2 vets we don't need.

I may be interested if we didn't retain on Dion and the cap dumps were the 1 year deals of Purcell and Nikitin, but as it sits, I would say no to it.

Well Giordano just got a deal until he's 38 for 6.75 million. Compare that to Phaneuf's contract and see how bad it really is @ 7 million until age 36. I'm not so sure retention is necessary unless for major overpayment.

 

[The Podium]

Well Giordano just got a deal until he's 38 for 6.75 million. Compare that to Phaneuf's contract and see how bad it really is @ 7 million until age 36. I'm not so sure retention is necessary unless for major overpayment.

35* and one was signed from 28-35 the supposed prime the other is 32-38 or the twilight contract. It didn't work out well for the Leafs as Phaneuf regressed rather than hit his prime but the timing of the contracts aren't comparable.

 

[pooleboy]

I know that these trades rarely (never) happen but how's the value/need factor?

JVR and Dion at $5.5M

Draisaitl, Nurse, Purcel/Pouliot and Nikitin

$8.25M our way $9.75M theirs.

EDM solidifies top 6 and 4 to compete now.

We get two high end prospects for the rebuild.

I would do that very quickly Draisaitl and Nurse would jumpstart this re-build very quickly. Edmonton wouldn't even come close to touching this offer however.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

When Toronto had Brown, Orr, and Mclaren they were one of the scariest teams in the league. We'd have a fight a game and it got the other team off of their game. Its a dying role, but intimidation is a nice factor to have.

Fraser on D as well. It was definitely an intimidating team. Building like that is good enough to get you a playoff round or 2 but you'll never win it all that way. Not unless your tough and committed to D, top to bottom.

That was a lot more fun then anything I've seen since Roberts was here.

I'm all for guys with intimidation. It's a big reason why I think Dion Phaneuf has a lot of value. Even Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren showed they could do more than just fight. Although guys like them are not really useful anymore when you could get someone like Sam Carrick there instead. Carrick is a good fighter, but when he's not fighting, he's still a very useful player. Those are the type of players that need to be the new "enforcers" in the league.

I just don't want John Scott in the league. Or any dirty enforcers. Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren were always there to provide energy, put up some big hits and protect the teammates. I don't remember a time they were sent out to injure another team's player (other than punching them in the face in a legit fight).

In a regular season game, when the game isn't close, the fighters/goons are OK.

In a tight game, down the stretch, or in the playoffs, these guys hardly ever touch the ice. How useful can they be for the team if this is the case? There has to be some reason for them disappearing unless most of the GMs are just acting irrationally.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Well Giordano just got a deal until he's 38 for 6.75 million. Compare that to Phaneuf's contract and see how bad it really is @ 7 million until age 36. I'm not so sure retention is necessary unless for major overpayment.

Both Giordano's and Phaneuf's deal have a downside for the same reason. I'm not sure how we manage to console ourselves that much because MG deal is 2 years longer.

Having said that, both contracts are a reflection of market value and the type of contracts that this kind of player is able to sign.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Both Giordano's and Phaneuf's deal have a downside for the same reason. I'm not sure how we manage to console ourselves that much because MG deal is 2 years longer.

Having said that, both contracts are a reflection of market value and the type of contracts that this kind of player is able to sign.

That's all that really matters. It represents that Phaneuf @ 7 million is not as ridiculous as it is made out to be. Also, they both have 6 years left on their deal, but Giordano will be older when his expires.

 

[piikerr]

I would do that very quickly Draisaitl and Nurse would jumpstart this re-build very quickly. Edmonton wouldn't even come close to touching this offer however.

Only way Edmonton touches this deal is if they somehow pullout into 1st-4th in the west and think they've got enough for a cup run. Doubt they give up 2 A prospects with high ceilings. Although if you replaced Dion with pits 1st + Percy/Finn (Replace Darnell) and then maybe Reimer at deadline then I could see it happening with less of a dump coming back.

 

[TheCLAM]

That's all that really matters. It represents that Phaneuf @ 7 million is not as ridiculous as it is made out to be. Also, they both have 6 years left on their deal, but Giordano will be older when his expires.

I have a feeling Phaneuf will be picked up via the expansion draft

 

[RLF]

Well Giordano just got a deal until he's 38 for 6.75 million. Compare that to Phaneuf's contract and see how bad it really is @ 7 million until age 36. I'm not so sure retention is necessary unless for major overpayment.

Not sure what this had to do with what I posted. I had said I wouldn't do it if we had to retain.

As for Giordano, let's not forget what he has done for Calgary and before injured was a Norris candidate. He just put up 48pts in 61 games after 47 pts in 64 games the past two seasons. He is also regarded as being a greater part of Calgary's success than Dion is in Toronto and still signed for slightly less than Dion per season. At this point in time, MG is considered the better D and still signed for less.

I also didn't say Dion's contract is really bad, but that doesn't mean it is a good contract either. If his contract is not a problem, and he is as valuable as some say, I'm sorry, but he would have been traded by now. It is not a secret that he has been made available.

 

[RLF]

That's all that really matters. It represents that Phaneuf @ 7 million is not as ridiculous as it is made out to be. Also, they both have 6 years left on their deal, but Giordano will be older when his expires.

Quote Having said that, both contracts are a reflection of market value and the type of contracts that this kind of player is able to sign.

Sorry, not buying that because they could sign it, means it is not a poor or bad contract. Otherwise, that means that the Clarkson contract, or any contract for that matter isn't as bad as it is made out to be because they were able to get that money.

 

[Ovate]

I have a feeling Phaneuf will be picked up via the expansion draft

NTC means the Leafs need to protect him.

Dion's contract, when he was signed, was a reasonable deal. He was coming off of $6.5 and going into UFA, so he needed to be given a small raise. Perhaps the term was a couple years too long, and maybe he was able to restrict a couple too many teams on his NTC, but it wasn't horrible. It's only now that the dollar has dropped and everyone is signing cheap that it becomes overpaid.

 

[91Kadri91*]

Well Giordano just got a deal until he's 38 for 6.75 million. Compare that to Phaneuf's contract and see how bad it really is @ 7 million until age 36. I'm not so sure retention is necessary unless for major overpayment.

Giordano is a significantly better hockey player.

 

[beer123]

I know that these trades rarely (never) happen but how's the value/need factor?

JVR and Dion at $5.5M

Draisaitl, Nurse, Purcel/Pouliot and Nikitin

$8.25M our way $9.75M theirs.

EDM solidifies top 6 and 4 to compete now.

We get two high end prospects for the rebuild.

Probably would need to add Nylander in order for the Oilers to begin considering. I would love a one-two punch at Center of Marner and Draisaitl

 

[Menzinger]

Dion to Edmonton is a possibility, wasn't Chia at one pointed linked to a Dion deal when he was still with the Bruins??

Probably would need to add Nylander in order for the Oilers to begin considering. I would love a one-two punch at Center of Marner and Draisaitl

I'd pass then, Nylander likely ends up the best individual player of the bunch.

 

[garyjones93]

I know that these trades rarely (never) happen but how's the value/need factor?

JVR and Dion at $5.5M +Polak

Draisaitl, Nurse, Purcell/Pouliot and Nikitin +Ference

$12.25M our way $12.50M theirs.

EDM solidifies top 6 and 4 to compete now.

We get two high end prospects for the rebuild.

If we were getting both Draisatl and Nurse, I'd even give them a Polak for Ference swap. Only* costs them $250k(mind you Phaneuf's contract is pretty long) to add a top 6 winger and a top 4 D man. Arguably upgrade Bottom 4 D Man.

But in reality Oilers never trade them. Or Driasatl for an equal age/potential Dman.

*Obviously it costs the prospects as well. I was talking in terms of Salary wise.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Not sure what this had to do with what I posted. I had said I wouldn't do it if we had to retain.

As for Giordano, let's not forget what he has done for Calgary and before injured was a Norris candidate. He just put up 48pts in 61 games after 47 pts in 64 games the past two seasons. He is also regarded as being a greater part of Calgary's success than Dion is in Toronto and still signed for slightly less than Dion per season. At this point in time, MG is considered the better D and still signed for less.

I also didn't say Dion's contract is really bad, but that doesn't mean it is a good contract either. If his contract is not a problem, and he is as valuable as some say, I'm sorry, but he would have been traded by now. It is not a secret that he has been made available.

I don't think it's as big of a gap between the two going forward as most initially would think.

Everyone overlooks Gio is coming off by far his two best offensive years in the league. Prior to last season, Gio led the Flames to being a lottery team two years in a row. Gio has missed approximately 20 games in each of the last 3 full seasons. Also last season all advanced stats showed they were a bad team and nearly all key pieces had career years.

Gio deals expires as he turns 37.5 years of age, Phaneuf deal expires as he's turning 36.

Gio is darn good player but I don't for a second believe over the next few years he'll be among names like Subban, Karlsson for best offensive D production.

 

[TheCLAM]

NTC means the Leafs need to protect him.

Dion's contract, when he was signed, was a reasonable deal. He was coming off of $6.5 and going into UFA, so he needed to be given a small raise. Perhaps the term was a couple years too long, and maybe he was able to restrict a couple too many teams on his NTC, but it wasn't horrible. It's only now that the dollar has dropped and everyone is signing cheap that it becomes overpaid.

Good point about the NTC I'll remember that one

You have to look at Dion when he first came into the league. He warranted that contract based on his huge offensive numbers. I personally don't see why we gave him a raise. The only factor is that free agency gets a little kooky and he probably would of got that money elsewhere. However, that's just speculation