Free Agent/Trades 2015: Offer Sheets, Buyouts, Terminations & Free Agency

[notdoneyet]

An agent has to listen to his player. It could be Franson and not the agent. We don't know.

Was it ever confirmed with a legitimate source Franson was in fact offered that deal? There were rumors there was an internal debate among management with some wanting to keep Franson, some wanting to deal him prior to the deadline. With the way the Leafs collapsed and the great great return we got from Nashville I'd bet more management got on board the idea of needing to accumulate picks/prospects wagon vs. bringing back Franson but only more expensive.

Since Shanny has come on board the media seems to have been kept in the dark. Nobody thought Babcock or Lamariello were coming to Toronto.

It doesn't matter whether it was confirmed or not

What was confirmed by trading him was that he was asking for what we were not prepared to pay
We had first right to negotiations
We offered
They countered
We didn't like that number so we knew we didn't want to sign him so we traded him
What was it
Three contracts with us and problems with every one
Sort of like Kari in a way
Someone thinking they are better than they are and worth more than they are

 

[I Believe]

Signings have been so conservative this offseason.

I still can't believe Santorelli is playing for less money then last year. Wouldn't surprise me to see Franson doing the same.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Signings have been so conservative this offseason.

I still can't believe Santorelli is playing for less money then last year. Wouldn't surprise me to see Franson doing the same.

That's what happens when you look crap on a good team. Franson did not have Phaneuf to lean on, and therefore he sucked. Santorelli obviously wasn't good in his role with Nashville either. Though going from good minutes to 4th line minutes with crap players probably didn't help. That being said, he should have done better.

I know for sure Phaneuf was a big reason why Franson looked good, and inversely why Phaneuf looked worse than usual. So if Franson only gets Ehrhoff money, I think he deserves it.

 

[Menzinger]

Franson to Buffalo makes sense for both sides.

 

[91Stammer*]

*le sigh*

Will it ever end...

So this is how it is eh! Straight from Tampa board.

 

[TheCLAM]

Can't blame the media for thinking we are out of the Babcock sweepstakes when even Babcock and the Leafs thought we were. Of course the Leafs will say they always thought they were in it and of course Babcock will say that he always considered us but Babcock even admitted that the Leafs didn't really become an option until the night before he signed. By next morning every insider was saying the Leafs aren't out of it now.

Honestly the Babcock argument is such a bad one. There are a lot better options, like Lou or to an extent the UFA signings, but even the best insiders still manage to hear things about this stuff.

It's one of many examples that prove this Leafs management has locked up the JFJ rumor mill. None of the free agents targetted were even mentioned to Toronto. The insider haven't really said anything of value this off-season.

If you want to defend Dreger and co. so be it. The Leafs staff has been quite good at suppressing any filtration of information.

 

[TheCLAM]

Signings have been so conservative this offseason.

I still can't believe Santorelli is playing for less money then last year. Wouldn't surprise me to see Franson doing the same.

Declining dollar doesn't help a lot of team causes

 

[TheCLAM]

That's what happens when you look crap on a good team. Franson did not have Phaneuf to lean on, and therefore he sucked. Santorelli obviously wasn't good in his role with Nashville either. Though going from good minutes to 4th line minutes with crap players probably didn't help. That being said, he should have done better.

I know for sure Phaneuf was a big reason why Franson looked good, and inversely why Phaneuf looked worse than usual. So if Franson only gets Ehrhoff money, I think he deserves it.

Santorelli no one can really blame. I don't care who you are 4th line minutes are a killer on any top 9 players confidence. I'm interested in seeing if Phaneuf rebounds this season under Babcock. I had a similar theory however, I'm a little bias because I'm not a fan of Franson game. Fancy stats seem to complicate the seeing eye test

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Santorelli no one can really blame. I don't care who you are 4th line minutes are a killer on any top 9 players confidence. I'm interested in seeing if Phaneuf rebounds this season under Babcock. I had a similar theory however, I'm a little bias because I'm not a fan of Franson game. Fancy stats seem to complicate the seeing eye test

I seriously think Phaneuf is better than his stats indicate. He's had crap to work with the entire time. I can't wait to see what he can do with Gardiner. For once he'll get someone whose at least top 4 quality and someone that is actually faster than he is. Heck, maybe we'll find someone willing to pay a high price for Gardiner at the same time

 

[keon]

I seriously think Phaneuf is better than his stats indicate. He's had crap to work with the entire time. I can't wait to see what he can do with Gardiner. For once he'll get someone whose at least top 4 quality and someone that is actually faster than he is. Heck, maybe we'll find someone willing to pay a high price for Gardiner at the same time

Gardiner is still a work in progress defensively and if he is Phaneuf's partner he may negatively affect Phaneuf's numbers. Phaneuf is a Top 2/3 Defenceman getting paid #1 dollars. I am not in a Panik for dumping Phaneuf's contract. Phaneuf is overpaid by a million and has too much term. Toronto will not likely be a cap team for another two years, so it is not an immediate issue.

Phaneuf might have better numbers if Rielly is his partner. Phaneuf's numbers are not the most important issue. The development of young players in these "dead rebuild" years is the important issue. Phaneuf will be a good (maybe not great) leader for the younger players like Rielly, Gardner, Harrington, Percy, Dermott, and all.

Toronto does not have to accumulate more and more draft picks for players like Phaneuf, although the extra draft picks are nice to have. A rebuilding team still requires good veterans to lead and help develop the rookies. I will be happy if Toronto finishes this year bottom 5 with a respectable hard working team. A team should be developing 2/3 young players every year. I hope to see few players like Levio and Percy or others in Toronto after the TDD, but still being lead by a veteran like Phaneuf.

 

[darrylsittler27]

$7M to groom Reilly.

There is one team that can afford Phaneuff, Tor. Unless we eat some contract down to $6M ish, he won't get serious offers.

 

[garce]

I seriously think Phaneuf is better than his stats indicate. He's had crap to work with the entire time. I can't wait to see what he can do with Gardiner. For once he'll get someone whose at least top 4 quality and someone that is actually faster than he is. Heck, maybe we'll find someone willing to pay a high price for Gardiner at the same time

Phaneuf is a really good NHL defenceman,Babcock may make a lot of difference in his effectiveness in how he uses him. I see a more shutdown occasional offence role. He can still be a captain a Seabrooke essential player.

 

[keon]

There is one team that can afford Phaneuff, Tor. Unless we eat some contract down to $6M ish, he won't get serious offers.

I am not an expert on buyouts and cap hits and Phaneuf's agent is. Phaneuf's contract is heavily loaded with a large signing bonus in the last year. A look at buying out Phaneuf's contract on Generalfanager shows Phaneuf's contract buyout cap hit in his last contract year (2020/2021) is $5.8m. This makes Phaneuf's contract expensive to buyout (as a cap hit) and very difficult to trade. Dave Nonis is an idiot.

 

[ntheboyz*]

Why does Leafs nation want to give away JVR so bad? Seems like every fan here undervalues him or am I missing something about his game?

 

[Ovate]

Why does Leafs nation want to give away JVR so bad? Seems like every fan here undervalues him or am I missing something about his game?

He can't play defense for ****, he's UFA by the time we're done rebuilding, and he's probably a 25/25 player or worse without Kessel.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Why does Leafs nation want to give away JVR so bad? Seems like every fan here undervalues him or am I missing something about his game?

I haven't seen anyone want to give him away. I've seen people want to utilize his high value due to a good contract to move him for a big return, since they don't see him as a particularly valuable asset player long-term.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I wonder what the odds are where Steven signs.

65% TBL
30% TOR
5% Another NHL team

 

[Stephen]

Why does Leafs nation want to give away JVR so bad? Seems like every fan here undervalues him or am I missing something about his game?

Agreed.

Just keep him. He's cheap, he's still young, he didn't seem to have the same locker room concerns as the other guy who was shipped out. Take a wait and see approach.

 

[Stephen]

I wonder what the odds are where Steven signs.

65% TBL
30% TOR
5% Another NHL team

Really hoping he senses the positivity building here with the Leafs rebuilding and the Jays success and realizes how big of a role he could play in a revitalized Toronto sports market.

Even Babcock made a comment the other day, they want to put a system in place to attract the many local Toronto players to want to come back to this market. Pretty sure guys like Stamkos, Seguin etc. would be central to those plans.

 

[darrylsittler27]

We won't be giving JVR away.

We just gave Kessel away. We are open to offers because he has value and we need other pieces for the rebuild. It depends very much on the offer but what if say Colorado offered Duschene plus a 2nd rounder for a JVR, Kadri package? I wouldn't worry , Lou will maximize his value and won't get panicked into a Kessel trade.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I don't agree he is an idiot.

I am not an expert on buyouts and cap hits and Phaneuf's agent is. Phaneuf's contract is heavily loaded with a large signing bonus in the last year. A look at buying out Phaneuf's contract on Generalfanager shows Phaneuf's contract buyout cap hit in his last contract year (2020/2021) is $5.8m. This makes Phaneuf's contract expensive to buyout (as a cap hit) and very difficult to trade. Dave Nonis is an idiot.

He just wasn't ready. He drafted Nylander and Gauthier, both picks I understand but of course Gauthier gets some flak from fans because he may only be 4th line pk. He got rid of Clarkson but he gave way too much in contracts. His free agent signings panned out i.e Winnik,Santorelli and he did get Bernier for a 2nd instead of selling the team for Luongo. I just think Burke left too big a mess for him to cleanup. Lou is a far superior GM, in 2 years we won't even remember those other 2 GM's.

 

[LV*]

We just gave Kessel away. We are open to offers because he has value and we need other pieces for the rebuild. It depends very much on the offer but what if say Colorado offered Duschene plus a 2nd rounder for a JVR, Kadri package? I wouldn't worry , Lou will maximize his value and won't get panicked into a Kessel trade.

done

 

[keon]

He just wasn't ready. He drafted Nylander and Gauthier, both picks I understand but of course Gauthier gets some flak from fans because he may only be 4th line pk. He got rid of Clarkson but he gave way too much in contracts. His free agent signings panned out i.e Winnik,Santorelli and he did get Bernier for a 2nd instead of selling the team for Luongo. I just think Burke left too big a mess for him to cleanup. Lou is a far superior GM, in 2 years we won't even remember those other 2 GM's.

Nonis gave Clarkson the ridiculous contract and Leaf Nation was double blessed that Columbus came and asked for him. Nonis and the Leafs got lucky!

 

[darrylsittler27]

another brick in the Wall.

As far as luck goes, if we had to invite one back on our team in some capacity, Nonnis is my vote. He tried, the mess was too big.

 

[Ovate]

Nonis decided that the best use of the analytics budget was not to use it at all. He signed Clarkson to a 7 year contract saying he was only concerned about the first year. The deals he gave to Kessel, Phaneuf, Bozak, and Lupul were also in that boat, only concerned with the immediate future. He traded Gunnarson for Polak, retained salary and added a pick to try to fix an immediate problem of not enough grit. He extended Carlyle after a second epic collapse and a 23rd place finish.

I don't blame him for buying out Grabovski, drafting Gauthier or letting MacArthur walk. Those were all reasonable moves.

He had some good moves in drafting Nylander (after Bergman reportedly begged him to), and the one year deals.

He was decent or even good at a few areas of being a GM. But he completely mis-evaluated the quality of the team and then made moves that would only make sense if we were a contender with a closing window in the search of immediate success.