Former Canucks: Players & Management V

[coastal_nuck]

Really think we would have done this:

- 2014 Draft: Nylander selected instead of Virtanen
- Kesler Trade: Kesler is traded but not for a package including Sbisa. I truly believe he would have targeted either Vatanen or the 10th overall pick. Whether he got that is the question but he certainly would not have targeted Sbisa and thought, hey, this is a real good defenseman. If we still got the 24th pick, I think McCann still would have been picked.
- Gudbradson Trade: Would not have happened - at least not for McCann.
- 2015 Draft: Assuming we still finished at the bottom and got the 5th pick, I have to think Gillis would have gone with the forward here - Tkatchuk.

 

[duplo]

i wonder what he would have done with kassian
i doubt he would trade him for prust

Oh haha, I forgot about Kassian and he was my favorite Canuck. It's hard to say where he'd be now, but I'd still want him on my team. He definitely wouldn't have been put in a trade for Prust where Van throws in the sweetener though.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Oh haha, I forgot about Kassian and he was my favorite Canuck. It's hard to say where he'd be now, but I'd still want him on my team. He definitely wouldn't have been put in a trade for Prust where Van throws in the sweetener though.

Where would Kassian be
If he hadnt crashed into a tree

Whoa this thread is meta

 

[alternate]

Looking at those line ups, thank god we got Benning.

But i liked Gillis so I really doubt he'd have kept a defense thqt was already slow and lacking any offensive creativity together this long.

 

[Nuckles]

Aside from what has been mentioned, we'd still probably have Kassian and Lack. I don't know if they would have asked Bieksa to waive his NTC, but there really is no way I knowing.

This team would definitely be more likable and have more personality, and we'd have more quality prospects like McCann and Shinkaruk.

 

[Huggy]

Looking at those line ups, thank god we got Benning.

But i liked Gillis so I really doubt he'd have kept a defense thqt was already slow and lacking any offensive creativity together this long.

whats funny is anaheim hasnt lost one of their young defensemen. and yet a 31 yr old kesler takes the 2nd best

also shinkaruk and santorelli and nylander as a 2nd line

holy **** let it die. do u think thats a better team.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Impossible to say where the team would be 2 years after someone got fired. I wasn't happy with Gillis in his final 3 years here; however, I am confident in saying that the team would be in much better shape right now if he were still the GM.

 

[Icebreakers]

I dont remember a single trade outside maybe the Schneider deal where i was like omg why did he trade this player.

It seems like he won every trade at the time of the trades. He never was forced to do anything and take the best offer available. He was a great trading GM.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Not a fan of post 2011 Gillis or Benning. They both were/are awful.
We'd probably be in about the same position with Gillis. Worse drafting but more picks and slightly better trades and much better signings.

 

[m9]

Impossible to say where the team would be 2 years after someone got fired. I wasn't happy with Gillis in his final 3 years here; however, I am confident in saying that the team would be in much better shape right now if he were still the GM.

Agreed.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Not a fan of post 2011 Gillis or Benning. They both were/are awful.
We'd probably be in about the same position with Gillis. Worse drafting but more picks and slightly better trades and much better signings.

We can't really look at Gillis's persistence here as a continuation of the re-tool strategy. That's the difficulty here. If Aqua agrees to finally allow Gillis full control again, then no, the team would not be in the same position.

Better trades (Gillis was far better than Benning)

Better signings (Excellent at them)

Level drafting (Remember, Crawford was put in charge of drafting from 2012 onward. You would have to compare what he would have done to what Benning is doing. Gillis let his scouts draft)

In the end, Gillis would have been allowed to deal Kesler, Luongo, Burrows, Higgins and Edler on his timeline. Not the one imposed on him by Aqua. This would make a big difference in the return. Especially, if he's allowed to rebuild properly.

 

[M2Beezy]

I really missing gillis as we talk of this

I think everyone does at this point

 

[CherryToke]

our prospect pool would be filled with busts. I miss that sooooo much!@!!!

Gillis being a good GM is one of the biggest HF Canuck myths.

 

[iloveloov*]

This thread reminds me of a depressed middle aged person sitting on the couch fantasizing about how perfect their life would be if only they didn't dump their high school sweetheart who they've nostalgically idealized while they binge on ice cream then cry themselves to sleep.

 

[y2kcanucks]

our prospect pool would be filled with busts. I miss that sooooo much!@!!!

Gillis being a good GM is one of the biggest HF Canuck myths.

Oh I absolutely agree with you.

HF created this. It didn't actually happen.

 

[rune74]

Oh I absolutely agree with you.

HF created this. It didn't actually happen.

Curious, on what year of his contract did he get?

 

[iloveloov*]

This thread reminds me of a depressed middle aged person sitting on the couch fantasizing about how perfect their life would be if only they didn't dump their high school sweetheart who they've nostalgically idealized while they binge on ice cream then cry themselves to sleep.

That being said:

Sedin - Sedin - Eriksson
Virtanen - Kesler - Kassian
Santorelli - Horvat - Hansen
Weise - Gaunce - Richardson

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Garrison
Stanton - Corrado

Markstrom
Lack

Not bad.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

We can't really look at Gillis's persistence here as a continuation of the re-tool strategy. That's the difficulty here. If Aqua agrees to finally allow Gillis full control again, then no, the team would not be in the same position.

Better trades (Gillis was far better than Benning)

Better signings (Excellent at them)

Level drafting (Remember, Crawford was put in charge of drafting from 2012 onward. You would have to compare what he would have done to what Benning is doing. Gillis let his scouts draft)

In the end, Gillis would have been allowed to deal Kesler, Luongo, Burrows, Higgins and Edler on his timeline. Not the one imposed on him by Aqua. This would make a big difference in the return. Especially, if he's allowed to rebuild properly.

Some good points but I think the only way to rate GM's is on what they did not based on what we think the limitations they had from ownership. And to be fair I apply that same standard to Benning and don't excuse him because of any limitations he had placed on him by ownership.

On that basis;
Drafting is easily Benning as Gillis had very poor results. In fact our drafting statistically is near the bottom of the league in studies I have read prior to Benning. So this may be somewhat faint praise for Benning but I think this is clearly him. Getting Boeser and Demko where he got them in the draft is very impressive.

Gillis was easily better at trading but since 2011 had a pretty poor record on trades. I think he botched the goalie trades and needs to take responsibility for this regardless of how the league impacted the Luongo contract. So Gillis here but again very faint praise considering Benning's record.

Signings and cap management was, IMO, where Gillis shone. He was one of the best in the NHL and was smart enough to delegate to Gillman as well. This allowed him to take advantage of other GM's like in the Ehrhoff deal.

IMO, Benning is one of the worst GM's. Gillis post 2011 was a below average GM. Taking his entire tenure into account I think Gillis was slightly above average.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I would take Gillis back in a heartbeat. He'd be even better now with what he learned from his mistakes and a break from the game. And even the Gillis that struggleD was better then Benning.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

Nothing wrong with the subject, just merged it with an existing thread to avoid 'bloat'.

 

[ahmon]

Some good points but I think the only way to rate GM's is on what they did not based on what we think the limitations they had from ownership. And to be fair I apply that same standard to Benning and don't excuse him because of any limitations he had placed on him by ownership.

On that basis;
Drafting is easily Benning as Gillis had very poor results. In fact our drafting statistically is near the bottom of the league in studies I have read prior to Benning. So this may be somewhat faint praise for Benning but I think this is clearly him. Getting Boeser and Demko where he got them in the draft is very impressive.

Gillis was easily better at trading but since 2011 had a pretty poor record on trades. I think he botched the goalie trades and needs to take responsibility for this regardless of how the league impacted the Luongo contract. So Gillis here but again very faint praise considering Benning's record.

Signings and cap management was, IMO, where Gillis shone. He was one of the best in the NHL and was smart enough to delegate to Gillman as well. This allowed him to take advantage of other GM's like in the Ehrhoff deal.

IMO, Benning is one of the worst GM's. Gillis post 2011 was a below average GM. Taking his entire tenure into account I think Gillis was slightly above average.

Pretty much how I see it.

 

[iloveloov*]

Some good points but also a lot of conjecture, IMO.
I think the only way to rate GM's is on what they did not based on what we think the limitations they had from ownership. And to be fair I apply that same standard to Benning and don't excuse him because of any limitations he had placed on him by ownership.

On that basis;
Drafting is easily Benning as Gillis had very poor results. In fact our drafting statistically is near the bottom of the league in studies I have read prior to Benning. So this may be somewhat faint praise for Benning but I think this is clearly him.

Gillis was easily better at trading but since 2011 had a pretty poor record on trades. I think he botched the goalie trades and needs to take responsibility for this regardless of how the league impacted the Luongo contract. So Gillis here but again very faint praise considering Benning's record.

Signings and cap management was, IMO, where Gillis shone. He was one of the best in the NHL and was smart enough to delegate to Gillman as well.

IMO, Benning is one of the worst GM's. Gillis post 2011 was a below average GM. Taking his entire tenure into account I think Gillis was slightly above average.

I find it very difficult to believe that from one year to the next a GM can go from great to below average the same way a player can if he blows out a knee.

What happened to Gillis is like Ovechkin scoring 50 goals one year and 20 goals the next because he hit the post 50 more times because the guy who owns the net has it on remote controlled wheels. Like Ovechkin he was always a great GM even though he didn't get the results after 2011 for reasons that aren't exactly a secret.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

our prospect pool would be filled with busts. I miss that sooooo much!@!!!

Gillis being a good GM is one of the biggest HF Canuck myths.

Something, something, chickens, something something, before they hatch.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

On that basis;
Drafting is easily Benning as Gillis had very poor results.

Two important points.

1) The Canucks drafting was horrible prior to Gillis arriving on the scene. Putting that albatross around his neck as though he completely nuked the Canucks drafting like Benning did in Boston post-Gorton ignores that things weren't exactly great before he took the job. It was showing signs of improvement.

2) It's premature to say that Benning is 'clearly' better than Gillis. Other than Virtanen (who isn't tracking too well and was a contentious pick along the lines of Bourdon v. Kopitar), none of his draft picks have played any NHL games yet. Things are looking promising, but let's not put the cart before the horse.

Gillis post 2011 was a below average GM. Taking his entire tenure into account I think Gillis was slightly above average.

When Gillis wasn't dealing with meddling owners he shone. When the Aqua Boys decided to stick their noses into running the team is where things went sour. Coincidentally this coincides with post-2011.

 

[Domecile]

We'd be in the same position we're currently in. Middling bubble team with declining assets and a so-so prospect pool.