Former Canucks: Players & Management V

[topheavyhookjaw]

Meaning, two cores were put together without solely relying on drafting. It can be done.

The presence of a salary cap matters a lot here. 1/3 of the league wasn't financially competitive so developed talent flowed out to the bigger markets consistently. Not sure there's a good post-cap example of a team not built in draft that's a consistent contender (maybe boston?).

This is exactly it. Pick frequency was a significant issue during the Gillis regime. It's remained an issue during the Benning regime. Only, Benning's NHL team is nowhere close to being as good as the one Gillis had to support.

Yes, unless you consistently win the best 'free' assets (undrafted UFAs, College UFAs, waivers) it's nearly impossible to accumulate talent without one of either the current roster or prospect pool being drained significantly. Such is live with a salary cap.

With the likely the best NHL record over that span. Put it this way, if Gillis could produce talent consistently from the 1st round, while maintaining a top5 NHL team, Aqua would still be answering questions as to why he was fired.

I think it was cup or bust. MG wasn't graded against the GM options out there, he was graded against the expectations he established.

Does it? having multiple picks gives you a better chance of landing a NHL player, yes. However how did you get those extra picks by trading Nhl players. So the net effect can still be negative. Best would be drafting muliple NHL players with less picks while acquiring good nhl players with picks traded. Gillis did the latter without the former while Benning is doing the former without the latter. Which is still a net positive.

Perhaps true, but Benning has also lost NHL players without recouping picks routinely through UFAs not dealt at deadline, poor waiver management etc.

 

[Hit the post]

Does it? having multiple picks gives you a better chance of landing a NHL player, yes. However how did you get those extra picks by trading Nhl players. So the net effect can still be negative. Best would be drafting muliple NHL players with less picks while acquiring good nhl players with picks traded. Gillis did the latter without the former while Benning is doing the former without the latter. Which is still a net positive.

That's a bit 'putting the cart before the horse' isn't it? It certainly *looks good* so far but I wouldn't call then 'good NHLers' at this point yet (are any better NHLer than Horvat - who's still got ways to go).

 

[FroshaugFan2]

Liberati will be attending Florida's development camp.

Liberati, a seventh-round draft pick by the Vancouver Canucks in 2013, spent time in rookie camp with the Penguins last year before returning to juniors. He said teams have shown interest in signing him but he expected things to pick up after the NHL Draft, which concluded June 25.

For now, he's happy to be getting an opportunity to attend development camp with the Panthers.

http://triblive.com/sports/otherlocal/10703340-74/liberati-camp-kitchener

 

[Pip]

Does it? having multiple picks gives you a better chance of landing a NHL player, yes. However how did you get those extra picks by trading Nhl players. So the net effect can still be negative. Best would be drafting muliple NHL players with less picks while acquiring good nhl players with picks traded. Gillis did the latter without the former while Benning is doing the former without the latter. Which is still a net positive.

Yes. I believe the only way to consistently produce NHL players from the draft aside from having too 5 picks is to simply have a lot of picks, especially those in the first 3 rounds. I don't think any team can get multiple NHLers out of the draft consistently with less than an average amount of picks.

 

[me2]

Yes. I believe the only way to consistently produce NHL players from the draft aside from having too 5 picks is to simply have a lot of picks, especially those in the first 3 rounds. I don't think any team can get multiple NHLers out of the draft consistently with less than an average amount of picks.

You only have to look at the number of duds taken every year in the first round or two to realise it is true. Draft lists and teams go from great picks to awful picks between drafts and within drafts. There is no substitute for volume.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Could also argue that McNally looked pretty good until he sat out a year due to the cheating thing. They knew he'd want to go four years, which is why he went in the 4th round, but you couldn't really predict that.

Picking a rich boy who has family traditions at Harvard who would rather study and cheat academically than play pro hockey is an epic failure. Waste of a pick.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I guess there's also trading away your second round pick like Benning does every year so you don't have to worry about hitting or missing on it

I would rather trade my 2nd than draft tha Sauve's and Mallets of the draft

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

caviar or mcdonald's, it all ends up in the same place in the end.

one could say the same about yann sauve or linden vey.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Picking a rich boy who has family traditions at Harvard who would rather study and cheat academically than play pro hockey is an epic failure. Waste of a pick.

Still nowhere near as bad as the 'draft wizard' completely ruining Boston's drafting/prospect system and overturning all of Gorton's fine work in what can only be described as the single worst thing ever done in the history of the NHL.

 

[geebaan]

Still nowhere near as bad as the 'draft wizard' completely ruining Boston's drafting/prospect system and overturning all of Gorton's fine work in what can only be described as the single worst thing ever done in the history of the NHL.

but this information doesn't fit the narrative, so it'll be ignored, and redirected back to gillis hate.

 

[The Drop]

I would rather trade my 2nd than draft tha Sauve's and Mallets of the draft

Yup. Instead he'll waste 1sts drafting guys like Virtanen over Nylander.

And trade first round picks for guys waiver clearing plugs like Granlund

 

[Hit the post]

Yup. Instead he'll waste 1sts drafting guys like Virtanen over Nylander.

And trade first round picks for guys waiver clearing plugs like Granlund

Torts couldn't himself guide this team to a 3rd last place finish.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Yup. Instead he'll waste 1sts drafting guys like Virtanen over Nylander.

And trade first round picks for guys waiver clearing plugs like Granlund

Guys like Mallet and Sauve will never sniff the NHL.

Which 2nd round pick was worse:

A) Ellington
B) Sauve
C) Mallet

Damn tough call.

 

[F A N]

Those are the 1st 3 years of the Gillis regime, 1 of which had no picks in the top 100. So really only 2 years you can judge it on, poor years though. 2 years just isn't a big enough sample size to say definitively, though the draft list leak was damning, probably part of the reason he rebuild a lot of the scouting. It also depends on the draft year, the Schroeder year produced only 3 decent players in the next 10 picks: Marcus Johansen, Kyle Palmieri and the perpetually injured Simon Depres in the next 10 picks.

For what it's worth, Gillis would have kept the 2010 first if Bennett and Tinordi were still available so we know the two were the guys they targeted.

 

[tyhee]

Guys like Mallet and Sauve will never sniff the NHL.

Which 2nd round pick was worse:

A) Ellington
B) Sauve
C) Mallet

Damn tough call.

Picking three 2nd round busts doesn't prove that 2nd round picks are without value any more than pointing out that Loui Eriksson, Patrice Bergeron, Shea Weber and David Backes were all selected in the 2nd round in the same year (the year after Duncan Keith was selected i the 2nd round) proves that 2nd round picks are valuable. Btw, in addition to Keith and Weber, P.K. Subban is another d-man selected in the 2nd round.

 

[Hit the post]

Guys like Mallet and Sauve will never sniff the NHL.

Which 2nd round pick was worse:

A) Ellington
B) Sauve
C) Mallet

Damn tough call.

Ellington..33rd overall
Sauve.....41st overall
Mallet.....57th overall


I do believe Mallet was hit by a car; don't know how that affected his career (don't recall how severe that injury was). Of the three, I'd put Mallet as the "least worse" based on where they were picked (he was a late 2nd round selection).

 

[RobertKron]

Ellington..33rd overall
Sauve.....41st overall
Mallet.....57th overall


I do believe Mallet was hit by a car; don't know how that affected his career (don't recall how severe that injury was). Of the three, I'd put Mallet as the "least worse" based on where they were picked (he was a late 2nd round selection).

It was Sauve who was hit by the car. IIRC, he was looking like an alright depth type prospect before that.

Mallet didn't pan out, but you can at least see a logic there. Tough kid who put up a big season, showing that he hopefully had the puck skills to reliably make the NHL as a bottom sixer. Obviously it didn't go that way.

Ellington was just a poor pick that never really projected to the next level.

 

[Hit the post]

It was Sauve who was hit by the car. IIRC, he was looking like an alright depth type prospect before that.

Thanks for the correction - my mistake in confusing the two.

 

[thepuckmonster]

It was Sauve who was hit by the car. IIRC, he was looking like an alright depth type prospect before that.

Mallet didn't pan out, but you can at least see a logic there. Tough kid who put up a big season, showing that he hopefully had the puck skills to reliably make the NHL as a bottom sixer. Obviously it didn't go that way.

Ellington was just a poor pick that never really projected to the next level.

Mallet was 20 and unimpressive in his overage season. It was a straight up bad pick for a 2nd rounder, I could've justified it if he were a 4-7th rounder. It was a reach if there ever was one.

 

[Red]

Mallet was 20 and unimpressive in his overage season. It was a straight up bad pick for a 2nd rounder, I could've justified it if he were a 4-7th rounder. It was a reach if there ever was one.

It was not his overage season - it was his draft age+2 season, or 19 year old season where he put up 81 pts in 69 games and was then picked. He went to the AHL/ECHL as a 20 year old.

Agree that it was still a reach.

 

[RandV]

It was Sauve who was hit by the car. IIRC, he was looking like an alright depth type prospect before that.

Mallet didn't pan out, but you can at least see a logic there. Tough kid who put up a big season, showing that he hopefully had the puck skills to reliably make the NHL as a bottom sixer. Obviously it didn't go that way.

Ellington was just a poor pick that never really projected to the next level.

What also helps with Mallet is that people didn't like it because he was an overager, but recently a lot of teams have started taking these types of players - even Benning.

It was a miss of a pick, but not a bad strategy. And far better way to address an 'age gap' than spending big to acquire guys like Vey & Granlund.

 

[Red]

What also helps with Mallet is that people didn't like it because he was an overager, but recently a lot of teams have started taking these types of players - even Benning.

It was a miss of a pick, but not a bad strategy. And far better way to address an 'age gap' than spending big to acquire guys like Vey & Granlund.

He was a draft re-entry, not an overager.

 

[DadBod]

Mallet was a terrible pick at the time and he turned out just as projected. I'm not sure who our scout for the Q is but we don't seem to have luck from that league.

 

[Hit the post]

Mallet was a terrible pick at the time and he turned out just as projected. I'm not sure who our scout for the Q is but we don't seem to have luck from that league.

Didn't most of our 'domestic scouts' kind of stink during this period as well?

 

[Huggy43]

Guys like Mallet and Sauve will never sniff the NHL.

Which 2nd round pick was worse:

A) Ellington
B) Sauve
C) Mallet

Damn tough call.

I'd rather have a new lottery ticket then trading for one that's 2/3rds scratched & looking like its a loser. That goes for any regime in charge.

I also expect a GM to build the team on his strengths. With Gillis it was negotiations & he did a damn good job at it. With Benning it's supposed to be his drafting but instead of stock piling picks to showcase his strength he is bleeding picks.

Though honestly our drafting has always been terrible. I mean think of ALL the blunders this team has made drafting. Now add to the fact GMMG was also in charge during our most successful era in franchise history too... I mean the teams that can do it all are the model franchises like the Detroits & more recently Chicago. They are also kind of the exception & not the norm.

However that's just me, I liked Gillis. If you're still going on about drafting Yan Sauve in 2016 then I think I have a pretty good idea about your stance Ultimately though if we're not looking for the finalizing pieces of a cup team I'd prefer we had as many draft picks in the top 90 as possible. If Benning could do that & live up to his drafting hype I'd say we'd be back contending for a cup in no time.