GDT: Florida Panthers @ Red Wings - 7:30 EST - FSD

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It was actual audio out of KH mouth, word for word, bud...

Even so... if you think he actually only knows what's going on with other teams based on perusing the daily newspaper, I have oceanfront property in Arizona for you.

People have to stop taking things that GMs say in little bull**** radio segments as gospel. The Red Wings have pro scouts. They have assistant coaches and the whole nine yards. What is Holland gonna say "Yeah, we have spies all over the league!" He's gonna give the radio jockeys something stupid. It's like taking what coaches say at those halftime interviews while they're walking to the locker room to mean anything.

Holland knows everyone thinks he's a doddering old fool. That's him playing into it more than him actually being senile.

I would wager more that Holland checks out the newspapers as an addition/verification for what he hears from his scouts and the like. Like I said, the 97.1 guys are hot take central radio jockeys. They don't care about hockey and make it pretty plain they don't care about hockey, and right now they're all about bagging on Holland when they talk hockey because it is cool to do now.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah. He's great. What I'm wondering though is if they think he'll go mercenary again. I doubt it's something anyone besides Athanasiou knows. However, if he might go mercenary again, then he could be seen as just another guy in the last year of his contract. That's probably how he should be viewed, unless they have assurances from him. I think.

What I kinda fear most is that Holland thinks he can get AA to re-up to something long-term, and doesn't mind breaking the bank for him, the same way he doesn't seem to mind breaking the bank for almost anyone. Hoping he's turned the corner on that.

If they keep AA long term and don't mind paying for him... I don't think that's a bad thing if he's the player we're seeing right now. I had a problem with the stuff in the summer because he wasn't doing this last year. He wasn't dominating games (plural) and skating his ass off for a couple week period at a time. Also, there were other players of his same ilk who produced the same in similar minutes that got salary X and he seemingly wanted 25-50% more just because and used the KHL as a lever to try to make it happen.

AA if he plays like he currently is a guy you slightly break the bank for. I might want to do it more like an Alex Semin type deal (you know, a few years at a time, because you lock him in big money for 7 years, there is no telling if the passion and drive dry up), but this guy playing is one who might be worth extending yourself a bit more than you're comfortable with.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Yeah. He's great. What I'm wondering though is if they think he'll go mercenary again. I doubt it's something anyone besides Athanasiou knows. However, if he might go mercenary again, then he could be seen as just another guy in the last year of his contract. That's probably how he should be viewed, unless they have assurances from him. I think.

What I kinda fear most is that Holland thinks he can get AA to re-up to something long-term, and doesn't mind breaking the bank for him, the same way he doesn't seem to mind breaking the bank for almost anyone. Hoping he's turned the corner on that.

AA will have arbitrary rights this summer, So there's that Holland probably wont be dealing with him probably a new GM will would love Dean Lombardi unless they can come to some kind of understanding on a new deal. AA probably goes to an arbitrator and gets a 2 year deal maybe in the $3 million range don't know right now with both Larkin and Mantha needing new deals hopefully the cap increases to $80 million would definitely help us here.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

No, again, I disagree.
I think Frk's skating is no better. I think he does use his body better and forechecks better.
On the other hand, I think Pulkkinen was a better passer and had a wrist shot that was nearly as good as his slapper.
I saw enough of Pulkkinen before he got hurt, when he was on a 20 goal pace playing 12 minutes a night, to know he could play in the league.

Wrong place, wrong time.

Fact is, he lost his job to Athanasiou, who took his spot when Pulkkinen got hurt (not on the PP though).
But I still wish he would have been used with skill. Same with Jurco.
We put in the time developing the guys and then wasted them with chump minutes on defensive lines.
Bizarre.

Frk would be wasted right now, but he's got Mantha playing on the other side.
Frk on line 4 is playing with Mantha and then either Larkin or Athanasiou or Nielsen or Z.
His minutes are low, but at least, lately, he's not playing with David Booth and Scott Wilson.

That's why Pulkkinen has gone onto three other rosters and played a total of 11 NHL games in two years, right? Because he clearly can play hockey. It's not at all possible that he had a nice little hot streak right away and everyone just realized he's not very good at NHL speed.

You complain about the Wings wasting players while 100% ignoring that the players that they've "wasted" have gone onto other teams in other systems and be as bad or worse than they were here.

Frk is right in the same boat as Pulkkinen. They're both kinda meh players. If they had a better option than Frk, they'd play him.

 

[DetroitRed]

If they keep AA long term and don't mind paying for him... I don't think that's a bad thing if he's the player we're seeing right now. I had a problem with the stuff in the summer because he wasn't doing this last year. He wasn't dominating games (plural) and skating his ass off for a couple week period at a time. Also, there were other players of his same ilk who produced the same in similar minutes that got salary X and he seemingly wanted 25-50% more just because and used the KHL as a lever to try to make it happen.

AA if he plays like he currently is a guy you slightly break the bank for. I might want to do it more like an Alex Semin type deal (you know, a few years at a time, because you lock him in big money for 7 years, there is no telling if the passion and drive dry up), but this guy playing is one who might be worth extending yourself a bit more than you're comfortable with.

I'm kinda in the same place. I think that the Wings are not at a point yet where they can afford to be signing expensive mercenary types (if that is what he will be). It might be better to get something for AA than to just lose him.

Also, AA isn't extremely far ahead of a guy like Frk, who has played a lot of his minutes on the bottom lines. It's hard to tell at this stage what AA will turn out like. However, if by the end of the season AA has established himself as like the next Datsyuk, then you must consider whether this is a guy you want to build around. Of course, part of that consideration has to take into account whether you might have to go through perpetual contract standoffs with him. Also, if he looks more like a Tatar or Nyquist level of talent rather than a Datsyuk, then I don't think it's worth going through the whole contract circus with him ever again. Especially not at this point, when the team isn't even ready to seriously compete.

 

[Red Stanley]

This is a very soft part of the schedule.
Look who we've beaten.

We got off on the right foot by beating NYR in OT.
We beat a struggling Pittsburgh team that has been getting horrid goaltending at times.
We beat the reeling Senators.
We beat the Panthers, who are coming off a bad loss with rough travel schedule.

All 4 games at home.
All four games with good goaltending (reverse a nearly month long spell of bad goaltending).
All four games with Blash playing Athanasiou big minutes.

The rest of January is pretty soft.
vs Tampa ( then 5 days off)
@ Pitt
@ Chicago
vs Dallas
vs Carolina
@ NJD
vs Phi
vs Chi (then 5 days off)
vs SJ

If they win their home games and lose on the road they go 5-3 and probably gain 2 more points in the playoff race. Say 5-2-1 to be generous.


The reckoning comes in February. But even then, it starts a little soft before heating up.
@Carolina
@Panthers
vs Bruins
@islanders
@Capitals
vs Ducks
@lightning
@Predators
vsLeafs
vs Predators
vs Sabres
vs Carolina
@NYR
---tradedeadline feb. 26)---
@STL

I could see a nice 2-1-1 record to start February, but then they run into the Caps, Ducks, Lightning, Preds, Leafs and Preds again.

I expect they'll go 5-5-4 in February
So that would put them at 27-23-12 after 62 games - 64 points.

My guess is they'd have that on trade deadline day, 64 points in 61 games.
Carolina's point pace would put them at 70 points after 61 games.
Gotta think that at least one team we're chasing can at least keep their current pace, if not improve.
If not Carolina, I'm guessing Pittsburgh.
I can easily see us passing NYI and Philly.

But I don't see us match the pace Carolina is on.
We'd need another 6 points in February.
That's a tall order given the schedule.

That Jan schedule doesn't look soft at all. All of those teams are better than us in every way and, other than Tampa, are all clawing for points. Honestly I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[Dotter]

AA is looking much better. Increase that trade value!!

 

[kliq]

That's why Pulkkinen has gone onto three other rosters and played a total of 11 NHL games in two years, right? Because he clearly can play hockey. It's not at all possible that he had a nice little hot streak right away and everyone just realized he's not very good at NHL speed.

You complain about the Wings wasting players while 100% ignoring that the players that they've "wasted" have gone onto other teams in other systems and be as bad or worse than they were here.

Frk is right in the same boat as Pulkkinen. They're both kinda meh players. If they had a better option than Frk, they'd play him.

Agreed for the most part, only thing I disagree with is that I think Frk is better then Pulkkinen at the NHL level. Pulkkinen was a one trick pony, who's one trick worked amazingly well in the AHL, but in the NHL floundered. At the NHL level, D are not going to just let you have an open shot. If he went on to Minnesota or Arizona and did something, I could see his lack of success being on the Wings. Since he has done nothing everywhere he has gone, that's on him.

Sorry Redder, don't buy the "wrong place, wrong time" argument.

 

[turkleton85]

That's why Pulkkinen has gone onto three other rosters and played a total of 11 NHL games in two years, right? Because he clearly can play hockey. It's not at all possible that he had a nice little hot streak right away and everyone just realized he's not very good at NHL speed.

You complain about the Wings wasting players while 100% ignoring that the players that they've "wasted" have gone onto other teams in other systems and be as bad or worse than they were here.

Frk is right in the same boat as Pulkkinen. They're both kinda meh players. If they had a better option than Frk, they'd play him.

Yes, Pulks in the AHL is great. But in the NHL, he was to slow, he always fell down, he got crushed along the boards in a way that you wondered if some 12 year old was put in his jersey and shorts. His shot didn't hit the net. His goals were a bit lucky. The only real positive i remember was the PP goal assisted by the beaver, about the only time his "cannon of a shot" did something good.

Frk at the NHL level is twice as useful, although he wasn't better at the AHL level

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Agreed for the most part, only thing I disagree with is that I think Frk is better then Pulkkinen at the NHL level. Pulkkinen was a one trick pony, who's one trick worked amazingly well in the AHL, but in the NHL floundered. At the NHL level, D are not going to just let you have an open shot. If he went on to Minnesota or Arizona and did something, I could see his lack of success being on the Wings. Since he has done nothing everywhere he has gone, that's on him.

Sorry Redder, don't buy the "wrong place, wrong time" argument.

Frk is better than Pulkkinen in that his shot is more effective. Not *better* per se, but he can get it off and not get it blocked.

I was more saying that in terms of effective NHL players, they're both dime a dozen guys. It doesn't really matter that much if Frk is better than Pulkkinen, neither cause a material change in a team's trajectory.

Yes, Pulks in the AHL is great. But in the NHL, he was to slow, he always fell down, he got crushed along the boards in a way that you wondered if some 12 year old was put in his jersey and shorts. His shot didn't hit the net. His goals were a bit lucky. The only real positive i remember was the PP goal assisted by the beaver, about the only time his "cannon of a shot" did something good.

Frk at the NHL level is twice as useful, although he wasn't better at the AHL level

I was being sarcastic with that whole quote, in case you were wondering. I was saying that Pulks had a really good first couple weeks and then fell on those bad times because of exactly what you said.

 

[Grimm]

Yeah. He's great. What I'm wondering though is if they think he'll go mercenary again. I doubt it's something anyone besides Athanasiou knows. However, if he might go mercenary again, then he could be seen as just another guy in the last year of his contract. That's probably how he should be viewed, unless they have assurances from him. I think.

What I kinda fear most is that Holland thinks he can get AA to re-up to something long-term, and doesn't mind breaking the bank for him, the same way he doesn't seem to mind breaking the bank for almost anyone. Hoping he's turned the corner on that.

I'm hoping this new chemistry with D-Boss keeps him here. Those two seem to love playing hockey together.

 

[kliq]

I'm hoping this new chemistry with D-Boss keeps him here. Those two seem to love playing hockey together.

Its quite Frankly nice to see AA picking things up.

 

[JiminyCricket]

So you complain about tank talk, and then proceed to be the only one here to talk about tanking

Ok bud

If you see the comment I quoted, I'd say I wasn't off topic... Anyway, although it's not being mentioned right now in this thread blatantly, it's been hinted and there's plenty of posters posting in this very thread that are on board with it. Again, look at the comment I quoted, bud.

I just don't like it. I hate the idea. I sort of like/hate the route the team is going. Love hate relationship. It's the legendary Red Wings doing what they can just as they did since I first watched them as a toddler. I want them to keep trying, I want this franchise to continue to be the team they have been for the past two decades, even if they're unable. It's the fact that they're trying... In a somewhat unfortunate/sad way.

 

[turkleton85]

I was being sarcastic with that whole quote, in case you were wondering. I was saying that Pulks had a really good first couple weeks and then fell on those bad times because of exactly what you said.

i know you were being sarcastic, we have the same opinion.

 

[Oddbob]

Disagree, but whateva.

Frk just happened to be lucky enough to be here when the Wings weren't wasting roster spots On Vanek and Ott and Richards etc.

Your out to lunch on this Pulks vs Frk thing, seriously! Pulkkinen missed the net 85% of the time, and scored 6 goals in an entire season, while providing absolutely nothing else to the team. Frk gets about 7-10 minutes a night, and actually scores on the PP from time to time, and when he gets the odd evenstrength shift, I see a guy hustling and trying to help his team on the forecheck and on the backcheck. Pulks, aimlessly skated around and didn't engage in any puck battles, always waiting for teammates to do all the work and then when he would finally get the puck, would slap it 85 feet wide of the net, and then coast to the bench. Its fine if you like him or whatever, but you cannot sit here and blindly say he was better at his job than Frk. Stats and watching them play speak volumes of difference in this instance.

Also, Frk doesn't luckily hit the net with an absolute bomb on the point. If he was doing so poorly he wouldn't even be in the lineup. Also, what has Pulks done in his other stops in the NHL, probably a boatload of nothing. I would highly expect he will be KHL bound in 1-2 years at most.

 

[turkleton85]

Your out to lunch on this Pulks vs Frk thing, seriously! Pulkkinen missed the net 85% of the time, and scored 6 goals in an entire season, while providing absolutely nothing else to the team. Frk gets about 7-10 minutes a night, and actually scores on the PP from time to time, and when he gets the odd evenstrength shift, I see a guy hustling and trying to help his team on the forecheck and on the backcheck. Pulks, aimlessly skated around and didn't engage in any puck battles, always waiting for teammates to do all the work and then when he would finally get the puck, would slap it 85 feet wide of the net, and then coast to the bench. Its fine if you like him or whatever, but you cannot sit here and blindly say he was better at his job than Frk. Stats and watching them play speak volumes of difference in this instance.

Also, Frk doesn't luckily hit the net with an absolute bomb on the point. If he was doing so poorly he wouldn't even be in the lineup. Also, what has Pulks done in his other stops in the NHL, probably a boatload of nothing. I would highly expect he will be KHL bound in 1-2 years at most.

completely agree, pulkinnen does not belong anywhere near the NHL

 

[Winger98]

Your out to lunch on this Pulks vs Frk thing, seriously! Pulkkinen missed the net 85% of the time, and scored 6 goals in an entire season, while providing absolutely nothing else to the team. Frk gets about 7-10 minutes a night, and actually scores on the PP from time to time, and when he gets the odd evenstrength shift, I see a guy hustling and trying to help his team on the forecheck and on the backcheck. Pulks, aimlessly skated around and didn't engage in any puck battles, always waiting for teammates to do all the work and then when he would finally get the puck, would slap it 85 feet wide of the net, and then coast to the bench. Its fine if you like him or whatever, but you cannot sit here and blindly say he was better at his job than Frk. Stats and watching them play speak volumes of difference in this instance.

Also, Frk doesn't luckily hit the net with an absolute bomb on the point. If he was doing so poorly he wouldn't even be in the lineup. Also, what has Pulks done in his other stops in the NHL, probably a boatload of nothing. I would highly expect he will be KHL bound in 1-2 years at most.

No, Pulks tried to engage. He'd go to the boards entirely willingly and try. The problem was that he sucked at it. He was too small, too weak, and too slow. Frk's better at it because he's a bit bigger, a bit stronger, and a bit faster. Frk's the better player, but I don't think it's because Pulkkinen didn't try to do those things. He just couldn't.

 

[BinCookin]

Pulks is smaller than Frk
Pulks is slower than Frk
Pulks shot is less accurate than Frk
Pulks may have a stronger slap shot... but who cares if he misses the net.
If Frk hits the net and Mantha scores on the rebound... that is just as good as a goal. (that cant happen when u miss).

Look I liked Pulks too.. but he was given PP time. He was given a chance.

I am sorry when you are that small and ineffective everywhere else on the icee... u better be like a mini-Ovechkin on the PP to justify your presence on the team...

He did OK... but not NHL OK.

I mean, there isnt an NHL team that wants to use him in the NHL currently.
this is less about Detroit at this point. at least 4 NHL teams have put him in the AHL.
Im sorry, but close the book on this guy.

He needed more "Gadreau" to stay in the NHL... and he just doesnt have it.

 

[BinCookin]

I would like to point out, I am not really saying much about Frk himself. As soon as we have a better player than Frk who can even kinda shoot it on the PP.... Frk will find himself out of an NHL job then too...

 

[Flowah]

I would like to point out, I am not really saying much about Frk himself. As soon as we have a better player than Frk who can even kinda shoot it on the PP.... Frk will find himself out of an NHL job then too...

For now it's tough to see that happening in house. His top12 spot seems pretty safe. Everyone's healthy right now and he's higher than Booth/Witkowski it seems. Bertuzzi is still up and playing and Frk is still in the lineup.

Who from GR would take his spot as a PP specialist with a ripper?

 

[BinCookin]

Svechnikov?
Rasmussen next year takes net front, Mantha moves to Frk's spot?