Confirmed with Link: Flames do not qualify nine players, including Joe Colborne

[Anglesmith]

Shaw's a decent comparable to Colborne. Shaw has the better playoff resume, age, defensive awareness, the RHS, and a better motor while Colborne has tallness, better offensive skills, faceoffs, shootouts and 100 points in charm to delude people into thinking he can still play centre/top six. Regular season stats are pretty close and both are third liners more or less.

If Colborne's camp see this as a comparable, then he's as good as gone. Could see a team like the Devils (they don't care about advanced stats do they?) giving Colborne a similar offer. Benning might definitely if they miss out on Lucic/Eriksson.

The "playoff history" factor is huge, though. Shaw has won two Cups, meaning he's had plenty of TV segments devoted to how his heart and intangibles are like PEDs for his teammates.

 

[Sean Monahan]

Burke is a puppet of Dougie, and Treliving is a sub-puppet of Burke. And Dougie is a puppet of Freddie.

what is this? the human centipede?

 

[Kipper933]

Colborne can probably get some good $$ as a UFA, at least equal to the amount he would get in arbitration and likely more.

The writing is on the wall here, it looks like Colborne is gone.

Disappointed about Arnold, I don't know why he couldn't even get a few games this year.

 

[Skobel24]

Colborne can probably get some good $$ as a UFA, at least equal to the amount he would get in arbitration and likely more.

The writing is on the wall here, it looks like Colborne is gone.

Disappointed about Arnold, I don't know why he couldn't even get a few games this year.

I really don't think he'd ever be anything more than a 4th line center, and the Flames have plenty of better guys available. If Stajan weren't here, then maybe he gets re-signed. End of the day, there is just no room for him.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Colborne can probably get some good $$ as a UFA, at least equal to the amount he would get in arbitration and likely more.

The writing is on the wall here, it looks like Colborne is gone.

Disappointed about Arnold, I don't know why he couldn't even get a few games this year.

Arnold really has no value-added over his competition.

Not as relentless as Jooris.
Not as much size or faceoff ability as Grant.
Not as good a shooter or penalty killer as Freddie Hamilton
Flat out not even close to the same talent tiers as Backlund/Jankowski/Bennett/Monahan

The only guy Arnold really strikes me as a potential upgrade over is Matt Stajan, who is still under contract for two more years and serves a veteran mentorship role.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Because people are starting to overhype our young players and prospects?

Colborne and Ortio makes sense I guess, if you think about arbitration. The fact they are worried about that for Joe makes me happy, means they won't overpay him.

Starting? They've overhyped our prospects ever since there's been an internet!

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Anyone want to peel back the clock on that Iggy trade. Remember how some of us were called out for not being impressed by Agostino? How he was a major piece versus a throw in?

There she goes. Officially, Jay Feaster parlayed:
Jarome Iginla (1st ballot HOF'er)
Jay Bouwmeester (still a top pairing, at worst #3 guy)

into:

Morgan Klimchuk
Emile Poirier
Hunter Smith

Some asset management right there.
While there are still three prospects there who could pan out alright, ****, it would have been a lot nicer having just an A prospect out of someone versus the picks that were treated like gold that year.

Yup.
It sucks even more given the legacy of that Iginla trade.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Unfortunately, when we did trade Iginla, his value was not as a HOF-worthy All-star winger. So calling him that is naturally misleading. We traded a top-6 winger for a first and two B-prospects. Pretty standard price.

People always talk about Klimchuk needing to continue the Nieuwendyk->Iginla-> cycle, but it's extremely unfair. Nieuwendyk was approximately half-way through his career when he was traded, and had way higher value; hence why he netted the Flames a top prospect. The time in Iggy's career when he was traded was more comparable to the time when Nieuwendyk went from Dallas to New Jersey. And that's without factoring the amount of leaked information which weakened Feaster's position.

Bouwmeester's deal was better, considering that two of the three pieces are still factors.

Screw being fair, it was the rarity of the sequence of trades. It actually started with Nilsson, who was traded for a 2nd rounder (nieuwy), who was traded for Iggy, who was traded for Klimchuk. One of these names is not like the others.
Also at the time of the Iginla trade he was still a big question mark. Dallas wanted to wait until after the WJC to do the trade, but the Flames insisted it was done before - knowing Iggy would dominate. It's not like he was on HF's top 10 prospects at the time.

 

[Volica]

Bouwmeester's deal was better, considering that two of the three pieces are still factors.

To be fair, we have Burke to thank for this.
It'd likely be without Hunter Smith if Burke wasn't running the show at the time. Reto would have likely not been moved (it would have meant Feaster admitting his trade was bad).

From the Feaster side it's actually:
Jarome Iginla
Jay Bouwmeester

for

Klimchuk
Poirier

No matter how you slice it, it's horrible asset management.

But I'll digress, these trades have been beaten to death over the past 3 years on this forum we lost two trades clean, and that's nothing new considering the GM of that era for us.

Regarding the guys who were not qualified, I feel bad for Billy Arnold and Drew Shore. I feel both guys have NHL bottom 6 talent and they could play on this team. I feel because of bad contracts we gave out, that these guys are stuck. I'd much rather have Billy or Grant on the 4th line versus an overpaid Matt Stajan, but I think we're kind of stuck with him there.

Outside of that, BvB, Elson, Agostino and Poulin are just ultra depth guys with no real NHL future. I was hoping for more out of BvB because of that size; but, he never really showed up (wasn't even really a college star to be honest).

Clearly, absolutely clearly, the Treliving regime is clearing out all the prospect pool from the Feaster regime that are borderline. I would not be surprised if Tre/Pascall/Conny insulate the Stockton team with how much youth will come over.

Rasmus, Mangi, Eetu, and Karny might go pro; maybe AOM.

 

[Otzelor]

Rasmus, Mangi, Eetu, and Karny might go pro; maybe AOM.

http://flamesnation.ca/2016/6/27/pa...the-khl?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I´m not 100% sure, but I think he is going to the KHL according to reports.

 

[Anglesmith]

Screw being fair, it was the rarity of the sequence of trades. It actually started with Nilsson, who was traded for a 2nd rounder (nieuwy), who was traded for Iggy, who was traded for Klimchuk. One of these names is not like the others.
Also at the time of the Iginla trade he was still a big question mark. Dallas wanted to wait until after the WJC to do the trade, but the Flames insisted it was done before - knowing Iggy would dominate. It's not like he was on HF's top 10 prospects at the time.

Iginla was an 11th overall pick, whereas the first that Pittsburgh gave Calgary was never going to be higher than about 25th. The value difference is there pretty clearly. Klimchuk has not busted yet, so it's perhaps not time to do the trade obituary quite yet.

To be fair, we have Burke to thank for this.
It'd likely be without Hunter Smith if Burke wasn't running the show at the time. Reto would have likely not been moved (it would have meant Feaster admitting his trade was bad).

From the Feaster side it's actually:
Jarome Iginla
Jay Bouwmeester

for

Klimchuk
Poirier

No matter how you slice it, it's horrible asset management.

But I'll digress, these trades have been beaten to death over the past 3 years on this forum we lost two trades clean, and that's nothing new considering the GM of that era for us.

Regarding the guys who were not qualified, I feel bad for Billy Arnold and Drew Shore. I feel both guys have NHL bottom 6 talent and they could play on this team. I feel because of bad contracts we gave out, that these guys are stuck. I'd much rather have Billy or Grant on the 4th line versus an overpaid Matt Stajan, but I think we're kind of stuck with him there.

Outside of that, BvB, Elson, Agostino and Poulin are just ultra depth guys with no real NHL future. I was hoping for more out of BvB because of that size; but, he never really showed up (wasn't even really a college star to be honest).

Clearly, absolutely clearly, the Treliving regime is clearing out all the prospect pool from the Feaster regime that are borderline. I would not be surprised if Tre/Pascall/Conny insulate the Stockton team with how much youth will come over.

Rasmus, Mangi, Eetu, and Karny might go pro; maybe AOM.

I was actually thinking about it more lately. How many trades have there actually been lately which are a similar situation to Iginla? Vanek and Pominville were both franchise players traded as they declined (though Pominville hadn't really started declining yet) and in both cases, the price was similar- a first rounder and other stuff. No top tier prospects among them. Gaborik to the Kings was a second and a third. Maybe the best comparable player is Ray Bourque, and the best player the Bruins got out of that deal was Brian Rolston, who hit a maximum of 62 points with them. So I guess that's the benchmark. If Klimchuk can have one 60 point season, then this trade is basically par for the course?

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Iginla was an 11th overall pick, whereas the first that Pittsburgh gave Calgary was never going to be higher than about 25th. The value difference is there pretty clearly. Klimchuk has not busted yet, so it's perhaps not time to do the trade obituary quite yet.

The other 3 names are franchise legends, Klimchuk comes nowhere near.

Nilsson was traded for a 2nd which got us Nieuwendyk
Iggy was traded for a 1st, which got us Klimchuk

It's got nothing to do with value difference, and everything to do the legacy of the trades which have come to a screeching halt.

 

[tfong]

No QO is actually a pretty good way to avoid arbitration for player situations like this actually.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

The other 3 names are franchise legends, Klimchuk comes nowhere near.

Nilsson was traded for a 2nd which got us Nieuwendyk
Iggy was traded for a 1st, which got us Klimchuk

It's got nothing to do with value difference, and everything to do the legacy of the trades which have come to a screeching halt.

Expecting the legacy to continue when Iginla refused to be traded to any team but the Pens, effectively handcuffing Feaster, is a little much. Hell, expecting it to continue, period, is pretty wishful thinking given how risky prospects and picks are.

 

[Anglesmith]

No QO is actually a pretty good way to avoid arbitration for player situations like this actually.

Yeah, but it would be a lot worse if seemingly every GM was not doing it. If Colborne had like 12 teams interested to sign him to a good deal, he'd have a lot more leverage. As it is, everyone else probably just wants to sign their own guys they didn't qualify before worrying about poaching from elsewhere. And the teams that do have a spot for him have a glut of other similar guys to look at.

 

[Slush]

That Iginla trade a few years back is looking horrible now. Agostino going to be gone, Hanowski still being buried in the minors.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Also at the time of the Iginla trade he was still a big question mark. Dallas wanted to wait until after the WJC to do the trade, but the Flames insisted it was done before - knowing Iggy would dominate. It's not like he was on HF's top 10 prospects at the time.

Actually at the time the Flames wanted Todd Harvey, not Iginla.

The timing of the trade had nothing to do with the WJC, it had to do with Dallas wanting Niewendyk in their lineup.

 

[Calculon]

Meh, both the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades were widely acknowledged to be quite bad at the time they were made. This is just confirmation of what all but a select few couldn't or wouldn't see.

Anyway, the chain might not be over. Hopefully Klimchuk pans out in to something but if not, he could always be traded in a package for something or for a franchise fourth rounder.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

That Iginla trade a few years back is looking horrible now. Agostino going to be gone, Hanowski still being buried in the minors.

Hanowski was already gone.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Actually at the time the Flames wanted Todd Harvey, not Iginla.

The timing of the trade had nothing to do with the WJC, it had to do with Dallas wanting Niewendyk in their lineup.

While I remember Harvey being a possible part of the trade, getting Iggy before the WJC was most definitely a part. Can't remember who it was, but there were multiple people commenting on how they knew he was going to explode there and they wanted him before his value went up.

 

[Skobel24]

Expecting the legacy to continue when Iginla refused to be traded to any team but the Pens, effectively handcuffing Feaster, is a little much. Hell, expecting it to continue, period, is pretty wishful thinking given how risky prospects and picks are.

Agreed. There is a huge difference between the stages of their careers when they were traded. Joe was still a strong top line player. He would have been 28 or 29 when that trade occurred. Still in his prime. Iginla was in his mid 30's, and his play had already taken a step back. Had he have been dealt at the same age as Joe, he'd have been coming off of a 50 goal season. Add in the fact he only waived for 4 teams, and there wasn't much hope.

He still landed a 1st and two prospects. At the time, Hanowski and Agostino still had the potential to make the NHL. The trade definitely looks like **** right now, but Klimchuk is still young, and played a limited role in the AHL due to depth. His offensive numbers aren't great, but he was sound defensively, and has shown he has high IQ. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in a bigger role.

 

[Volica]

Iginla was an 11th overall pick, whereas the first that Pittsburgh gave Calgary was never going to be higher than about 25th. The value difference is there pretty clearly. Klimchuk has not busted yet, so it's perhaps not time to do the trade obituary quite yet.



I was actually thinking about it more lately. How many trades have there actually been lately which are a similar situation to Iginla? Vanek and Pominville were both franchise players traded as they declined (though Pominville hadn't really started declining yet) and in both cases, the price was similar- a first rounder and other stuff. No top tier prospects among them. Gaborik to the Kings was a second and a third. Maybe the best comparable player is Ray Bourque, and the best player the Bruins got out of that deal was Brian Rolston, who hit a maximum of 62 points with them. So I guess that's the benchmark. If Klimchuk can have one 60 point season, then this trade is basically par for the course?

Ultra hard to get value back for a star player. Would have liked the more sure fire prospect than three darts.

On another note, if Klimmer ever plays a full season in the NHL, I'll be happy. He had a tough first season, hoping for a bounce back.

Wishing for 60 out of him would be really, really lucky

 

[DCDM]

Actually at the time the Flames wanted Todd Harvey, not Iginla.

cringe

I hate it when this fact is brought up, because it makes the Flames look bad.

 

[Anglesmith]

cringe

I hate it when this fact is brought up, because it makes the Flames look bad.

If it makes you feel better, that means the Stars refused to give up Todd Harvey, and gave up Iginla instead.

 

[DCDM]

If it makes you feel better, that means the Stars refused to give up Todd Harvey, and gave up Iginla instead.

That's a good point.