Fire Hakstol

[Beef Invictus]

The difference in his CF% with Hagg and with Sanheim is somewhat staggering, even with the small sample size of the latter.

45.22% vs 56.2%.

Oh look, similar to what Sanheim did for Gudas right before being benched.


Why, it's almost like Sanheim picked up right where he left off and benching him eternally was always the height of stupidity.

 

[freakydallas13]

In case anyone thinks otherwise, I still want this beet-headed rube fired, regardless of wins.

 

[Ruck Over]

It is somewhat ironic that the main area we went with Hak for is the thing he's struggling the most with. I wouldn't have expected a college coach to rely so heavily on the vets. I'd have expected him to throw the kids in, get the speed through the team and go for it. I don't know where he learned this dependence...

I think that's an assumption we made just because of the environment he came from. Were his ND teams more senior heavy, or freshman heavy? It was likely a self-fulfilled delusion we had because he was used to coaching ~18-22 year olds be default of his available talent pool, not that he really enjoyed playing young players when he had the expanded opportunity to play old players.

The Flyers success is most likely in spite of Hakstol instead of because of him. I was shocked when he scratched Manning, for the positive. And inserting Weal over Lehtera, and even Read over Lehtera just makes too much sense. What took so long?

 

[deadhead]

All this "struggling to play young players" is about ONE player, Sanheim.
Provorov (21), 1st D-pair, Ghost (24), 1st D-pair, Konecny (21), 1st line, Lindblom (21), 2nd line, Patrick (19) 2C
And now it looks like Sanheim (22), has solidified a spot on the 2nd D-pair.
And Hagg (22) on the 3rd D-pair.

I dunno, sure looks like they're working the prospects into the lineup.
Maybe not quite as fast as some here would like, but we're talking months, not years in terms of "delay."

Weal has been meh, Read/Lehtera/Leier/Weise, scrub of the week club.
Hopefully, all will have new addresses next season.

 

[freakydallas13]

Beet-head plays those kids because hex puts them on the roster, not because he chose them. When hex put morin and Sanheim on the roster beet-head decided manning should play over both of them.

He prefers scrub veteran presence.

 

[Ruck Over]

@deadhead Think you are including Ghost under a false pretense. Especially since Ghost (211) and Manning (199) have roughly the same number of NHL game experience. Yet one is a young player, and the other a veteran, /smh.

Provo- check. Lindblom- check. Patrick- check'ish (given that he was the #2 pick, has fluctuated in use and sometimes is criminally underplayed, he hasn't had a tour of healthy scratches so get's a middling passing grade.)

 

[deadhead]

Manning started the season as the 7th D-man, Lehtera as the 13th forward, Ghost as the PP QB and 2nd pair D-man. Big difference.
Laughton and Leier were given every chance to carve out a bigger role, Weal was handed a 3rd line job. All failed to impress.
Not every young player steps up, some are going to struggle for a year, some are going to earn themselves a new address.

The guys who are part of the future core have stepped up, the others are going to soon be pushed out by newer prospects.

And people exaggerate the upside of some players - NAK has had a solid year in the AHL, but right now he's a bottom six prospect, before you talk about him being a scorer, let him show next year he belongs in the NHL playing 10-12 minutes a night, if he shines, he'll get more TOI. Looking at his career so far, he's a solid prospect, but nothing special - and when you talk top six for a contending team, you're talking special talents.

Myers may be a top 4 D-guy in a couple years, but I think he's behind Sanheim in his development and Sanheim is just now settling in.
MV is meh, Knight is probably as good, 2 years older but with NHL experience. Neither more than 4th line filler right now.
Vorobyev has a real shot at being a solid bottom 6 center, but I don't see the skating that would make him a top six talent right now.
Morin and Stolarz have to get healthy.
Martel came back to earth, he's a younger version of Varone.

There's a lot of talent coming up, but most of it is 1-3 years away from playing a significant role.

 

[baudib1]

It's not just about Sanheim. It's Hakstol's entire track record in the NHL. How about benching Ghost and Konecny while he gives VdV and Bellemare - literally the two worst offensive forwards in the league - the equivalent of 2nd line minutes?

 

[Tripod]

I dunno. Maybe Hak is a good coach, maybe not.

3 years of evidence is not enough to decide yet.

 

[kudymen]

I dunno. Maybe Hak is a good coach, maybe not.

3 years of evidence is not enough to decide yet.

Also depends on the context to say a definitive "maybe"

 

[freakydallas13]

Manning started the season as the 7th D-man, Lehtera as the 13th forward, Ghost as the PP QB and 2nd pair D-man. Big difference.
Laughton and Leier were given every chance to carve out a bigger role, Weal was handed a 3rd line job. All failed to impress.
Not every young player steps up, some are going to struggle for a year, some are going to earn themselves a new address.

The guys who are part of the future core have stepped up, the others are going to soon be pushed out by newer prospects.

And people exaggerate the upside of some players - NAK has had a solid year in the AHL, but right now he's a bottom six prospect, before you talk about him being a scorer, let him show next year he belongs in the NHL playing 10-12 minutes a night, if he shines, he'll get more TOI. Looking at his career so far, he's a solid prospect, but nothing special - and when you talk top six for a contending team, you're talking special talents.

Myers may be a top 4 D-guy in a couple years, but I think he's behind Sanheim in his development and Sanheim is just now settling in.
MV is meh, Knight is probably as good, 2 years older but with NHL experience. Neither more than 4th line filler right now.
Vorobyev has a real shot at being a solid bottom 6 center, but I don't see the skating that would make him a top six talent right now.
Morin and Stolarz have to get healthy.
Martel came back to earth, he's a younger version of Varone.

There's a lot of talent coming up, but most of it is 1-3 years away from playing a significant role.

Sanheim was scratched in favour of manning by literally the second game of the season. And Morin started the season on the roster and beet-head had him sit in the press box for three straight games, until Hex sent him back down.

Beet-head. Favours. Trash. Vets. It's not hard to notice.

Edit: Beet-head also favours Hagg (why is this particular young player immune to learning from being scratched?), but that is probably because he plays like a trash vet.

 

[Jtown]

I dunno. Maybe Hak is a good coach, maybe not.

3 years of evidence is not enough to decide yet.

System - clearly good sans all the defensive shot attempts on goal as the primary offensive attack
Player Management - The worst I've seen from any flyers coach
Ability to motivate players by punching them in the head, calling the perfect timeouts, and smashing coke machines - Non existent.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The system sucks & special teams have gone backwards despite the talent improving. If you like a guy who coaches with zero balls in everything he does then Hakstol is your guy.

 

[deadhead]

For a guy who can't motivate, this team has played pretty hard for three years, even when they lose, it's rarely a "belly up" game.
This team tends to go flat due to lack of talent, the bottom six and bottom four defense can't carry them when the top players have off games.

 

[Beef Invictus]

For a guy who can't motivate, this team has played pretty hard for three years, even when they lose, it's rarely a "belly up" game.
This team tends to go flat due to lack of talent, the bottom six and bottom four defense can't carry them when the top players have off games.

Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.

Wait.

WAIT.

This team has played hard? You have repeatedly claimed that the Hakshell isn't real, it's just the team being worn out and not being able to play hard anymore. What's this new angle? Your reaction to having it revealed that if the team is going flat so often in the 3rd it's still the coach's fault?

 

[Jtown]

For a guy who can't motivate, this team has played pretty hard for three years, even when they lose, it's rarely a "belly up" game.
This team tends to go flat due to lack of talent, the bottom six and bottom four defense can't carry them when the top players have off games.

Hockey is the most emotionally charged sport from what i have seen. For 3 years we have played like we are robots. Konecny showing some life last game caught me by surprise. The flyers have always had an identity and that Identity has helped us cultivate a winning culture and the 2nd best winning percentage in the regular season all time and 8 cup appearances. That Identity has been neutered by this coach and this organization.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hockey is the most emotionally charged sport from what i have seen. For 3 years we have played like we are robots. Konecny showing some life last game caught me by surprise. The flyers have always had an identity and that Identity has helped us cultivate a winning culture and the 2nd best winning percentage in the regular season all time and 8 cup appearances. That Identity has been neutered by this coach and this organization.

It begins with Berube.

 

[Jtown]

It begins with Berube.

You know what you're right. That was a wtf moment for me. I do remember that epic caps flyers fame with emery and holtby going at it, but that was it. I am not advocating bring back the goons or bullies , but there is a place for that and it has been missing from this team for a while.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The system sucks & special teams have gone backwards despite the talent improving. If you like a guy who coaches with zero balls in everything he does then Hakstol is your guy.

The system is close to being good, but Hak's choices make it hard to really judge. With the proper D personnel who can do more than float wristers from the maximum distance and little else, and with a coach who actually plays to win for the whole game rather than playing to avoid a loss or preserve a tie, it could work. The defensive end is solid. It can produce offense...it just can't produce offense when you're maxing the ice time of garbage players to "protect."

 

[Beef Invictus]

You know what you're right. That was a wtf moment for me. I do remember that epic caps flyers fame with emery and holtby going at it, but that was it. I am not advocating bring back the goons or bullies , but there is a place for that and it has been missing from this team for a while.

I do believe it was Berube who more or less waged war on Hartnell to reign him in. Those teams were even more lifeless, because along with the robotic element you also had that ridiculously deliberate breakout that gave opposing teams all day to get set to defend, so every damned thing was a slog.

 

[freakydallas13]

For a guy who can't motivate, this team has played pretty hard for three years, even when they lose, it's rarely a "belly up" game.
This team tends to go flat due to lack of talent, the bottom six and bottom four defense can't carry them when the top players have off games.

Team plays well: it's because of beet-head.

Team plays poorly: it's because of the roster.

Pick a side, because if beet-head gets credit for motivation, then he gets blame for uninspired play too.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The system is close to being good, but Hak's choices make it hard to really judge. With the proper D personnel who can do more than float wristers from the maximum distance and little else, and with a coach who actually plays to win for the whole game rather than playing to avoid a loss or preserve a tie, it could work. The defensive end is solid. It can produce offense...it just can't produce offense when you're maxing the ice time of garbage players to "protect."

I’m not a fan of taking the puck out of your forwards hands more in the offensive zone.

 

[Jtown]

I remember during the 24/7 series you could tell that hartnell and Berube were not the best of friends. When he was in charge hartnell's game was not the same. And it just a clear distinction when you juxtapose those lavy teams (which thrived on emotion), vs the berube hak teams which lull you into a state of mediocrity bliss.

 

[Jtown]

I’m not a fan of taking the puck out of your forwards hands more in the offensive zone.

and that is what this offense does. If giorux does not have the puck in the ozone when he is open and manning or mac can't or don't get him the puck i want to kill them. When you see Claude Giroux on the ice it would be very smart to get that guy the puck and get yourself open.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’m not a fan of taking the puck out of your forwards hands more in the offensive zone.

I'm good with it if you're giving it to guys like Provy, Sanheim, and Ghost, who can make plays back to the forwards after shifting, rather than standing like a post, or who can score on their own.

That's where my own concern comes in; in the NHL, and against NHL goalies, bulk of shots isn't gonna work. You need a lot of good dmen who make high quality chances for themselves and others to make it work; preferring the likes of Hagg actively sabotages that system. And getting/keeping so many dmen with that skillset in a capped league is quite difficult long term... and requires luck.

Hak has at least changed things in his time here. He used to take his centers out of the play, and that's usually your best players. Instead of being factors, he had Giroux and Couts playing behind the net to fetch dumps. He did change, but of course, there are two issues: He did the dumb thing to begin with, and while he did change, it took him an extremely, extremely long time.