Finnish Top Prospects part II

[Tormentor]

I guess you need to find something to complain. In other departments we are doing rather fine .

Have you seen Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen ('99) and Henrik Tikkanen ('00)? Do you think they could be an upgrade to what we've seen from the '96, '97 and '98 age groups? Is there possibly some light at the end of the tunnel?

Korpisalo hasn't fully established his position yet, but he was nonetheless one of the top young netminders in NHL this season after Murray and Vasilevsky. That gives us some hope and maybe Ville Husso could develop into something that's comparable to Antti Niemi/Karri Rämö for example.

The next youth star like Kari Lehtonen or Tuukka Rask is of course missing, but who knows, maybe we'll see a late bloomer like Pekka Rinne in the near future.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Selects Academy is a school that tries to blend the experience of AAA hockey with the prep school education. Many of the players in the Atlantic District here have began heading there. Some with great results some not so much.

It would seem very similar to the sports high school in Lahti when I was in Vierumaki. Though to be honest I never knew much about the academic side of the school.

South Kent is a New England prep school and competes in the prep school league during the winter while Selects competes in the fall and maybe into the spring tournament season (I'm not sure).

What is that program like? Do they take prospects in or can you just pay to get there or...?

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Was a bit surprised that no goalies went this year - though it appears clubs are taking a wait-and-see approach with the position.

Not sure the picture NHL-wise is as bleak as it appears. Rinne, while not up for any major awards, had a a month or so where he struggled but he was again an elite netminder down the stretch and in the playoffs. Similarly, Niemi and Lehtonen were very good working in a tandem and Tuukka Rask, despite the grumblings of Boston fans, handled a fairly big workload for the Bruins.

Korpisalo's emergence was a bit surprising but it'll be interesting to see what he does going forward. It will be interesting to see what happens with him and Bobrovsky during training camp.

The acquisition of Elliott by Calgary does not bode well for either Joni Ortio's or Karri Ramo's chances of playing a lot next season.

So not that surprisingly this was the first draft since 1996 (I remember that I had expectation for Jani Riihinen back then ) that not a single Finnish goalie was drafted. Last year it was rather close too.

This was also the first season in NHL since 2002-2003 that our goalies didn´t get a single vote in All-Star or Vezina voting. And it´s been about 6 or 7 years since Finnish goalie has established himself in starting role in NHL (Well I guess someone could argue that Rämö briefly was one).

From the last 11 drafts Ortio and Korpisalo are the ones with most games in NHL with ~30 games. From the undrafteds Raanta has established himself as midtier backup. I know its early to say about many of them, but the competition is hard and I struggle to see much potential in most of them. (I´m putting lot of hope in Saros )

I know that guys like Jukka Ropponen has talked about this for years and this wasn´t the moment that I woke up to these concerns. I know that the situation few years back when we had more than five starters in NHL wasn´t really "normal" situation. And yes we probably will have couple of goalies in NHL. And looking at the National team we really need those one or two. Still I have to say I´m rather concerned. The thing that many people still believe that we are some sort of superior goaltender factory is one of the most alarming things.

I guess you need to find something to complain. In other departments we are doing rather fine .

 

[FiLe]

Was a bit surprised that no goalies went this year - though it appears clubs are taking a wait-and-see approach with the position.

This. I'd say this current situation is more due to there being a shift in how the NHL clubs approach goalie prospects than decline in Finnish netminding talent.

That being said, even if there won't be as many Finnish NHL starters in the future, it's still nothing that would make me sweat, at least as far as our national team is concerned. If our forwards have a top-six full of NHL stars, a bottom-six that still consists of solid NHL talent, and a full NHL defense, even a KHL starter like Mikko Koskinen or a NHL backup like Raanta could be more than enough. At least it's definitely preferable to having a mediocre team that needs to ride a stud goalie to get anywhere. In fact, the latter's pretty much the only situation where one really comes in handy.

But like I said, I don't see the quality dropping. Even if the actual number of NHL level starters drops, that's not a direct indicator of the position being in decline. It's the most contested spot in hockey, after all.

 

[Tormentor]

This. I'd say this current situation is more due to there being a shift in how the NHL clubs approach goalie prospects than decline in Finnish netminding talent.

There were 18 goalies selected, including one Belgian playing in Austria. They say this was a weaker year for netminders all-around, but for Finland it was a 2nd poor year in a row, there's no escaping that.

 

[Quethas]

We did not have that great goalie prospects in 96, 97 and 98 age group. Kähkönen and Vehviläinen are both okay but not really something that should be excited about.

Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen to me seems to me most promising Finnish goalie from recent years. I was extremely impressed by the guy in playoffs and U18 world championships. He has the size, he has the quickness and he has the technique. He also seems to excel under pressure.

I honestly think that Finland wouldn't be gold medalist with Leevi Laakso.

 

[Sanf]

Have you seen Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen ('99) and Henrik Tikkanen ('00)? Do you think they could be an upgrade to what we've seen from the '96, '97 and '98 age groups? Is there possibly some light at the end of the tunnel?

Korpisalo hasn't fully established his position yet, but he was nonetheless one of the top young netminders in NHL this season after Murray and Vasilevsky. That gives us some hope and maybe Ville Husso could develop into something that's comparable to Antti Niemi/Karri Rämö for example.

The next youth star like Kari Lehtonen or Tuukka Rask is of course missing, but who knows, maybe we'll see a late bloomer like Pekka Rinne in the near future.

Can´t really say anything about Tikkanen yet or the competition in that age group. Luukkonen is very familiar. I guess perfect mold for todays goalie. I´m not as sold as many are about his current technical abilities, but he is young and raw. Looking forward to see what Juho Lehtola can do with young goalies. Kari Lehtonen going to Kouvola is good to Perhonen. End of the last season was the first time I have seen Perhonen playing close to his potential.

I did see only few games from Korpisalo last season. I may be stuck on my old view of him. He seem to taken big steps. I believe he became the youngest European goalie to play a 30 game season. But there are many young goalies that has came to the NHL with boom and then sort of get caught... Certainly hoping all the best for Korpisalo.

Yeah late bloomers may come, but when we look at the guys that has most games in NHL last season most of them were high draft picks. Surprisingly many even first round picks. From top 30 four were undrafteds.

 

[Sanf]

Was a bit surprised that no goalies went this year - though it appears clubs are taking a wait-and-see approach with the position.

Not sure the picture NHL-wise is as bleak as it appears. Rinne, while not up for any major awards, had a a month or so where he struggled but he was again an elite netminder down the stretch and in the playoffs. Similarly, Niemi and Lehtonen were very good working in a tandem and Tuukka Rask, despite the grumblings of Boston fans, handled a fairly big workload for the Bruins.

Korpisalo's emergence was a bit surprising but it'll be interesting to see what he does going forward. It will be interesting to see what happens with him and Bobrovsky during training camp.

The acquisition of Elliott by Calgary does not bode well for either Joni Ortio's or Karri Ramo's chances of playing a lot next season.

Yeah I´m sort of exaggerating the current situation, but the truth is our goalie core is getting old. Rask is most likely going to be there for years, but the others... Rinne may still have even a big season, but with his injury history I don´t see him playing there till his 40´s. Lehtonens injury history is pretty sad too. Just saying that their countdown has begun. Of course yet again hoping that I´m wrong in here.

 

[FiLe]

There were 18 goalies selected, including one Belgian playing in Austria. They say this was a weaker year for netminders all-around, but for Finland it was a 2nd poor year in a row, there's no escaping that.

Sure, it was a poor draft year for goalies. But should we be concerned about that? After all, drafting goalies is a crapshoot, and it feels like some clubs are actually using nothing but convenience as their criteria.

Even we Finns, for all our great numbes, have only really had two cases who have had their careers laid out for them - Lehtonen and Rask. The rest have either been FA signings or spent long whiles as journeymen before striking it big.

So having one star caliber youth talent hatch for only once in every 5-10 years is actually pretty much the norm. Now, one could argue it's been longer than that since Rask, but I'd disagree. Talentwise, Saros is right on par with them. What hampers his career is one thing he can't help. But he is regardless very much evidence that we're still on a steady curve. And are in no risk of falling off if Luukkonen arises as the next big thing (both figuratively and literally).

What comes to additional talent, well, there's obviously Korpisalo. Ortio's not one to be written off either. Husso's going to get some games to prove himself for sure, and I've a feeling Koskinen will get one more shot as well. So in the light of history, things look... quite unchanged, actually.

 

[Eyelanders]

Have you seen Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen ('99) and Henrik Tikkanen ('00)? Do you think they could be an upgrade to what we've seen from the '96, '97 and '98 age groups? Is there possibly some light at the end of the tunnel?

I had a chance to see Tikkanen many times last season and I liked what I saw. Very quick and moves smoothly for his size, great reflexes and athleticism. Might be already 6'4. He hadn't played at a particularly high level of hockey before getting a chance to play for HIFK U16, so I think he still has lots of room for development.

 

[FinPanda]

How would you rank the defenders for the 2017 Draft at this point?

Välimäki
Vaakanainen
Jokiharju
Kotkansalo
Heiskanen
Salo

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

So not that surprisingly this was the first draft since 1996 (I remember that I had expectation for Jani Riihinen back then ) that not a single Finnish goalie was drafted. Last year it was rather close too.

This was also the first season in NHL since 2002-2003 that our goalies didn´t get a single vote in All-Star or Vezina voting. And it´s been about 6 or 7 years since Finnish goalie has established himself in starting role in NHL (Well I guess someone could argue that Rämö briefly was one).

From the last 11 drafts Ortio and Korpisalo are the ones with most games in NHL with ~30 games. From the undrafteds Raanta has established himself as midtier backup. I know its early to say about many of them, but the competition is hard and I struggle to see much potential in most of them. (I´m putting lot of hope in Saros )

I know that guys like Jukka Ropponen has talked about this for years and this wasn´t the moment that I woke up to these concerns. I know that the situation few years back when we had more than five starters in NHL wasn´t really "normal" situation. And yes we probably will have couple of goalies in NHL. And looking at the National team we really need those one or two. Still I have to say I´m rather concerned. The thing that many people still believe that we are some sort of superior goaltender factory is one of the most alarming things.

I guess you need to find something to complain. In other departments we are doing rather fine .

Tuukka Rask was drafted 11 years ago.
when he retires, so has Rinne and all our current NHL goalies basically - tank is looking empty, so it is high time to be concerned, it's basically Saros or bust.

 

[JJTT]

Tuukka Rask was drafted 11 years ago.
when he retires, so has Rinne and all our current NHL goalies basically - tank is looking empty, so it is high time to be concerned, it's basically Saros or bust.

So you think we don't produce any NHL goalies for the next 10 years?

 

[nelli27]

The London Knights selected Janne Kuokkanen in the first round of the CHL Import Draft (June 28th). Can anyone comment on the likelihood of him joining the Knights for the upcoming season? I ask because I've heard rumblings that Janne might remain in Finland.
Thanks.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

How would you rank the defenders for the 2017 Draft at this point?

Välimäki
Vaakanainen
Jokiharju
Kotkansalo
Heiskanen
Salo

Vaakanainen
OFD with good size and is solid in his own end. Draft pick expectation: 10-20.

Välimäki
Smart and poised TWD with good size. Top 4 potential. Draft pick expectation 15-40.

Heiskanen
Smallish, skilled and smart OFD with good upside. Draft pick expectation: 25-50.

Salo
Another smart and poised TWD. Has also a good shot and seems quite strong. Draft pick expectation: 3rd-5th round pick.

Jokiharju
Small and skilled OFD with upside. A late round pick.

Kotkansalo
I have no clear opinion about him as he seems to have no clear strengths or negatives. Might not get picked.

My pick expectations are very premature of course, but this is how I see things today. Situations can and will change a lot in one season though. EDIT: Earlier I had Heiskanen over Välimäki because of higher ceiling, but Välimäki is undoubtedly less risky. It also must be said that I'm much better at evaluating offensive skills and forwards than defensemen.

 

[bebl]

I'm still stunned that Markus Niemeläinen went so late in nhl draft, maybe saginaw's bad season drag him down?

 

[FiLe]

Tuukka Rask was drafted 11 years ago.
when he retires, so has Rinne and all our current NHL goalies basically - tank is looking empty, so it is high time to be concerned, it's basically Saros or bust.

Rask has 7-9 seasons in him still - as does every other goalie born in the late 80s, like Rämö, Raanta and Koskinen.

And about Saros or bust, well... of the 90-borns there are also Korpisalo, Husso, Ortio and Kähkönen with potential to be an NHL starter one day. And I'm not even going to start on the sleepers, or the late 90s/early noughties crop.

If all these bust, then it's not looking good for us. But the odds for that happening are pretty damn long.

 

[Tormentor]

I'm still stunned that Markus Niemeläinen went so late in nhl draft, maybe saginaw's bad season drag him down?

Just my opinion, but I don't think Saginaw was the best possible environment for Niemeläinen's development. That team played simple, stupid hockey with little imagination. Niemeläinen was the top Finn at Hlinka Cup with Välimäki, but after a stagnant season in OHL, he was a lesser player at the WU18C's. So a down-trending season and limited development probably played a part in how things played out in the end.

Other concerns: Awareness and quality of puck movement isn't quite at the desired level when under heavy pressure in his own zone. Overall he's a solid defenseman, but there were occassions when he was cleary outsmarted by a crafty forward. A big guy but a tad soft compared to some other shutdown D's. Skating is one of his strong points, but things like agility and explosiveness aren't at pro level yet.

 

[kelsier]

Tormentor, what's your take of the D-class next year? In which order and why you'd take Välimäki, Vaakanainen, Salo, Heiskanen and so forth and do you think any of these guys have #1D NHL upside?

You can share your thoughts about Tolvanen and Vesalainen as well if you have the time. Looks like we have another year where there's a Finn as the best shooter?

 

[SQJ]

2017 seems like another solid draft class for Finland. Tolvanen, Vesalainen, Välimäki and Vaakanainen look like good bets to be taken in the 1st round with few other players with potential to challenge for top 31. Would be great to hear from Tormentor or someone else who has seen likes of Heiskanen, Jokiharju and Oksanen about their potential. Jokiharju for example had very similar stats in his draft -1 season compared to Juolevi. Smaller frame might hinder his chances at high draft pick?

Edit. Linus Nyman and Sami Moilanen are Jokerit juniors I recall reading about few years ago, how's their development looking?

 

[Tormentor]

Top tier:
Vesalainen, Välimäki, Heiskanen and Tolvanen

2nd tier:
Jokiharju, Vaakanainen and Luukkonen

3rd tier:
Salo and Kotkansalo

4th tier:
Nyman, Ikonen, Heponiemi, Oksanen, Pajuniemi and Räsänen.

Still long ways to go, but this is how I see things right now. Vaakanainen, Salo and Oksanen are perhaps a little lower on my list compared to some others, so I’ll try to offer an explanation to those.

I think Vaakanainen’s performance at the recent WU18C’s left something to be desired. The worst game for him was of course the Russia match where he got benched after causing several turnovers, but he had weaker moments in other games as well. He has skill and good wheels, but as it stands he’s lacking consistency as a puck mover. Furthermore, he’s a tad soft in his own end and I don’t think he’s that exceptional defensively. It’s worth noting that Rautakorpi selected Heiskanen, Jokiharju and Välimäki to the U20 camp, but left Vaakanainen out. I don’t know the reason for this, but perhaps I’m not the only one who thinks Vaakanainen could do better...

Salo has average wheels, average hands and average size. He’s a solid D with character, but I think there are quite a few Finnish prospects in this draft with higher upside than him. I don’t understand why Future Consideration and Hockeprospects have him ranked as a 1st rounder right now.

Oksanen has vision and skill, but he lacks courage, situational toughness and isn’t a fast skater. After Puljujärvi joined the U18 team at the World Championship’s, Oksanen became disposable and was often just the 13th forward. Not a good sign, especially when you consider the fact that he missed the cut-off date for 2016 draft by just ten days.

Nyman, Ikonen and Heponiemi are small and lightweight right now, but have a good amount of skill. A late growth spurt and one of them could end-up being a coveted prospect in the upcoming draft. And that’s not to say that Heiskanen, Jokiharju or Tolvanen wouldn’t benefit from a late growth spurt as well…

I love Moilanen as a player, but fast, tenacious, little wingers like him tend to loose some of their effectiveness once they move up to play against men. I’m not sure if he’s much of a NHL prospect right now.

Is there a Finn in this draft with #1D NHL upside? Hard to say for sure, but my guess would be no.

Tolvanen certainly has a sharp wrister, but I have no idea how his shot stacks up against other snipers in this draft.

 

[helicecopter]

Top tier:
Salo has average wheels, average hands and average size. He’s a solid D with character, but I think there are quite a few Finnish prospects in this draft with higher upside than him. I don’t understand why Future Consideration and Hockeprospects have him ranked as a 1st rounder right now.

I do see Salo at #13 in FC 2017 early rankings, but don't see him in top 30 for HP

btw, what do you think Valimaki does better than the other top D available?

 

[kelsier]

Thanks for the input Tormentor.

------------

http://thehockeywriters.com/2017-nhl-draft-rankings-the-next-ones-preliminary-edition/

That's seven Finns in the first round. Not that it's going to end up like that but still unheard of.

 

[JJTT]

Thanks for the input Tormentor.

------------

http://thehockeywriters.com/2017-nhl-draft-rankings-the-next-ones-preliminary-edition/

That's seven Finns in the first round. Not that it's going to end up like that but still unheard of.

Why is Välimäki so low in these rankings? To me he has everything you want in a defenseman.

 

[Tormentor]

I do see Salo at #13 in FC 2017 early rankings, but don't see him in top 30 for HP

My bad, I must have mixed it with some other ranking. That being said, HP has Salo as an honourable mention, so he’s probably an early 2nd rounder for them. Even that seems high from my perspective.

btw, what do you think Valimaki does better than the other top D available?

Välimäki isn’t the flashiest player out there, but he does everything well and his game should translate well to the pro rinks. He's a well rounded, dependable D with pretty good size. Is he a sure-fire 1st rounder at this point? Probably not, but I don’t think guys like Heiskanen, Tolvanen or Vaakanainen are either.