Euro: Final: Italy vs England (Part 3)

[Savant]

Yes and no. They usually win as a team playing tactically amazing football. Usually defending and playing as a collective better than other teams.
But they also always had the likes of Baggio, Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo, Del Piero, Totti.etc that were the best of the best in the world to go along with it.

They really didn't have that this time around. At all IMO. Thats what makes this even more special. The biggest names on this team are either very old in Chiellini or Bonucci or usually the unsung hero types in Verratti (who is never healthy and therefore can not even be considered a superstar) or Jorginho (who is very important to Chelsea but usually gets little spotlight next to Kanté and certainly is no superstar either.).
Heck I think the German team was pathetic and under that awful coach certainly deserved to go out early but just compare the names and what they have achieved and how they are viewed as a footballer with those that just won the title. Its Germany in a landslide. And that team isn't even that talented in comparison to what France or England could field.

I mean the World Cup win in 2006 is pretty similar I would say.

 

[The don godfather]

Well, maybe France should have beat Switzerland then. Like Italy did.

It's hard to win back to back trophy . I believe France did that in 98 and 2000 knocking Italy. Am I right ? Let's see if Italy can do it.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I don't think I've seen Sancho miss a penalty before today. He was the best penalty taker at Dortmund.

Man United got to take responsibility for what they've done to Sancho.

Lol what????

 

[gary69]

I never understood people who feel they need to comment on competitions/leagues/teams/players they barely watched and know next to nothing about them.

I mean you could ask about those from others who know more, but what's the point of giving your opinion which is based on nothing substantial.

 

[Juve]

I just came back from the celebrations. My head hurts like crazy

 

[buddahsmoka1]

Their squad is solid. They don't have names that stand out like Baggio, Maldini, Buffon or Pirlo but they are still damn good as a team and individually.

I think Live in the Now made an astute point that we may not conceptualize any of the current squad as "legendary players" (and maybe we won't ever), but that doesn't mean they won't become viewed like that. Besides the CBs, Insigne, and Immobile, this is a very young team.

I have no question that Donnarumma will be viewed like those names above in the future.

Verratti may not be a Pirlo, but he is world class.

Locatelli, Barella, Chiesa, Pessina are all 23 or 24 years old.

Lots of room for this group to grow.

 

[Maestro84]

I actually liked this England team quite a bit from the players to Southgate, but their fans made it impossible to cheer for them.

Booed others' anthems, bullied a little girl, beat up Italian fans, pointed laser at Danish goalie, ticketless ppl breaching Wembley, and now the online abuse to Rashford, Sancho, and Saka....every time I want to root for England their fans remind me why I do not

 

[I am not exposed]

I actually liked this England team quite a bit from the players to Southgate, but their fans made it impossible to cheer for them.

Booed others anthems, laughed at little girl, beat up Italian fans, pointed laser at Danish goalie, ticketless ppl breaching Wembley, and now the online abuse to Rashford, Sancho, and Saka....every time I want to root for England their fans remind me why I do not

I'm English, and it makes it hard for me!

Was not upset Italy won.

 

[Maestro84]

I'm English, and it makes it hard for me!

Was not upset Italy won.

Biggest shame is, 95% of English fans are civil individuals who root for the team and are condemning this ridiculous child-like behaviour that's been going on.

It's the 5% of psychos that ruin it for everyone.

 

[I am not exposed]

Biggest shame is, 95% of English fans are civil individuals who root for the team and are condemning this ridiculous child-like behaviour that's been going on.

It's the 5% of psychos that ruin it for everyone.

This is probably the most likable England team I have known. Certain fans and the media make it difficult to support them. The coming home football song also does not help!

 

[Juve]

Not working

 

[Luigi Habs]

Yikes

 

[ItsFineImFine]

Just finished the game and I'm fuming. Everyone agrees England win this with a less negative manager right? I was when I saw 3 at the back ot start with. Southgate had them not only sitting back but sitting back and not bothering to counter. They invited Italy back into this game. They don't even know how to sit back properly, the two holding midfielders do nothing except when they're defending the counter. Where was the plan to pressure Jorginho? He passed around at will. I truly believe England could've had Italy the way Spain almost did.

Harry Kane was awful for me. He was more interested in coming back to midfield to backpass rather than doing his job as a striker. I don't blame him for this, a different manager has him play his role more likely but he was a black hole with how he kept slowing down counters.

I think England are tied for the best side in Europe on paper right now and I include the overrated French team when I say that. They really need a Mancini, it's too late for that now but hopefully Southgate learns by 2022. You cannot go through a tournament trying to do this to every team.

I don't like Italy but I like Mancini, the man deserves the title, he was the best coach in this tournament for me.

edit: Don't get me started on Southgate's usage of subs in this tournament. f***. The man does not deserve to win a title and part of me is glad to see him lose even though I cheer for England.

 

[Lepardi]

I'm English, and it makes it hard for me!

Was not upset Italy won.

The English fans certainly did their best to damage your reputation but I have to say one thing in your defense: English being such a dominant language worldwide plays a part in this. Had Mario Balotelli for instance missed a gold-deciding penalty for Italy, he certainly would have gotten a lot of racist shit from Italian fans on social media. We just wouldn't focus on it that much because most of us don't understand Italian.

 

[The don godfather]

All I know come world cup time brazil france and Argentina are gonna be a monster.

 

[The don godfather]

Just finished the game and I'm fuming. Everyone agrees England win this with a less negative manager right? I was when I saw 3 at the back ot start with. Southgate had them not only sitting back but sitting back and not bothering to counter. They invited Italy back into this game. They don't even know how to sit back properly, the two holding midfielders do nothing except when they're defending the counter. Where was the plan to pressure Jorginho? He passed around at will. I truly believe England could've had Italy the way Spain almost did.

Harry Kane was awful for me. He was more interested in coming back to midfield to backpass rather than doing his job as a striker. I don't blame him for this, a different manager has him play his role more likely but he was a black hole with how he kept slowing down counters.

I think England are tied for the best side in Europe on paper right now and I include the overrated French team when I say that. They really need a Mancini, it's too late for that now but hopefully Southgate learns by 2022. You cannot go through a tournament trying to do this to every team.

I don't like Italy but I like Mancini, the man deserves the title, he was the best coach in this tournament for me.

Wish you guys had won. Your home should have shredded them 2 nil or something.

 

[Juve]

Montreal can party

 

[ItsFineImFine]

These excerpts are from a The Guardian article. I think three of the most basic skills of a manger, forget tactics, are picking the right side and getting them to attack/defend or balance that at the right times, and the subs. I think he failed on all three of those counts and he failed multiple times in this and the last tournament. The team having so much talent is the only reason they got so far both times. He's an absolutely awful coach.

It was an oversight from Southgate. Kane did not have a good look at Gianluigi Donnarumma, Italy’s goalkeeper, until he stepped up to blast home England’s first penalty. Raheem Sterling rarely had room to run in behind and Italy’s defenders could not believe their luck. They sailed through most of the game and Southgate did not respond, waiting until Italy had hauled themselves level before giving his side more options on the ball by bringing on Saka.

For Southgate’s critics, it will be tempting to jab at how he has used England’s creative talents all tournament, often keeping Jack Grealish, Jadon Sancho and Phil Foden back. Reverting to a back three was a gamble that left Kane and Sterling too isolated. It became a back seven too easily, even though England were a force of nature at first.

England’s goal was a wing-back to wing-back affair, sparked by Kane dropping deep to spread the play out to Kieran Trippier on the right. The cross was deep and Shaw arrived, picking a good moment to volley in his first England goal.

Southgate sensed a plan coming together. England were tight and combative, smothering Italy and forcing them into harmless areas. At the other end, though, Southgate’s forwards struggled. Sterling, moved to the right, did not have enough opportunities to test Giorgio Chiellini’s pace. Mason Mount was pressing the ball rather than dictating the play. Kane went through the 120 minutes without having a meaningful shot.

Around the half-hour mark, Italy put together a long, sustained spell of passing, rotating the ball cleverly, finding the angles, making England’s midfielders run. It was a bad sign. It started to feel like Moscow, the mind drifting back to Luka Modric and Ivan Rakitic taking the game away from England when they lost their World Cup semi-final to Croatia in 2018.

This felt too familiar. It happened when Frenkie De Jong dominated England in their Nations League semi-final defeat to the Netherlands two years ago and there were long spells when Italy’s midfielders were too smooth for England, hard though the enterprising Declan Rice tried to resist alongside Kalvin Phillips.

The longer it went on, the longer Jorginho and Marco Verratti kept the ball away from Rice and Phillips, the more England rushed their clearances, the more likely an equaliser became. So it proved. England were too deep and they paid for it, the goal messy when it arrived, Leonardo Bonucci bundling in from a corner.

Only then did Southgate react, bringing on Saka for Trippier and switching to 4-3-3. Yet England remained rushed and imprecise, creating few opportunities, Kane still a peripheral figure. Italy looked stronger, going close to a winner on a couple of occasions. Penalties felt like England’s best chance and Southgate adjusted accordingly, bringing on Rashford and Jadon Sancho with the seconds ticking away in extra-time.

 

[Selyanin]

They usually are. No repeat World Champions since Pele hayday Brazil in the 1960's.

Ofcourse repeating is hard doesn't mean the teams are overated. Finals in the 2016 Euros and won the world cup, but after one bad tournament they are overated... Guess who else doesn't win? Everyone but one team. So is every strong team that doesn't win also overrated?

 

[robertmac43]

Southgate will continue to be manager, which is a shame because there is a ton of talent that won't get played in order to be a defensive shell...

Really sad for Saka right now, wish he slotted it home to keep the PKs going. If he did a statue of Pickford would have been immediately built for his save on Jorghino. I'll also never understand the Rashford and Sancho subs, it's tough to go into a game cold and kick from the spot.

 

[N o o d l e s]

I think Live in the Now made an astute point that we may not conceptualize any of the current squad as "legendary players" (and maybe we won't ever), but that doesn't mean they won't become viewed like that. Besides the CBs, Insigne, and Immobile, this is a very young team.

I have no question that Donnarumma will be viewed like those names above in the future.

Verratti may not be a Pirlo, but he is world class.

Locatelli, Barella, Chiesa, Pessina are all 23 or 24 years old.

Lots of room for this group to grow.

Raspadori, Zaniolo, Pellegrini, Bastoni all coming along nicely too

 

[PanniniClaus]

These excerpts are from a The Guardian article. I think three of the most basic skills of a manger, forget tactics, are picking the right side and getting them to attack/defend or balance that at the right times, and the subs. I think he failed on all three of those counts and he failed multiple times in this and the last tournament. The team having so much talent is the only reason they got so far both times. He's an absolutely awful coach.

It was an oversight from Southgate. Kane did not have a good look at Gianluigi Donnarumma, Italy’s goalkeeper, until he stepped up to blast home England’s first penalty. Raheem Sterling rarely had room to run in behind and Italy’s defenders could not believe their luck. They sailed through most of the game and Southgate did not respond, waiting until Italy had hauled themselves level before giving his side more options on the ball by bringing on Saka.

For Southgate’s critics, it will be tempting to jab at how he has used England’s creative talents all tournament, often keeping Jack Grealish, Jadon Sancho and Phil Foden back. Reverting to a back three was a gamble that left Kane and Sterling too isolated. It became a back seven too easily, even though England were a force of nature at first.

England’s goal was a wing-back to wing-back affair, sparked by Kane dropping deep to spread the play out to Kieran Trippier on the right. The cross was deep and Shaw arrived, picking a good moment to volley in his first England goal.

Southgate sensed a plan coming together. England were tight and combative, smothering Italy and forcing them into harmless areas. At the other end, though, Southgate’s forwards struggled. Sterling, moved to the right, did not have enough opportunities to test Giorgio Chiellini’s pace. Mason Mount was pressing the ball rather than dictating the play. Kane went through the 120 minutes without having a meaningful shot.

Around the half-hour mark, Italy put together a long, sustained spell of passing, rotating the ball cleverly, finding the angles, making England’s midfielders run. It was a bad sign. It started to feel like Moscow, the mind drifting back to Luka Modric and Ivan Rakitic taking the game away from England when they lost their World Cup semi-final to Croatia in 2018.

This felt too familiar. It happened when Frenkie De Jong dominated England in their Nations League semi-final defeat to the Netherlands two years ago and there were long spells when Italy’s midfielders were too smooth for England, hard though the enterprising Declan Rice tried to resist alongside Kalvin Phillips.

The longer it went on, the longer Jorginho and Marco Verratti kept the ball away from Rice and Phillips, the more England rushed their clearances, the more likely an equaliser became. So it proved. England were too deep and they paid for it, the goal messy when it arrived, Leonardo Bonucci bundling in from a corner.

Only then did Southgate react, bringing on Saka for Trippier and switching to 4-3-3. Yet England remained rushed and imprecise, creating few opportunities, Kane still a peripheral figure. Italy looked stronger, going close to a winner on a couple of occasions. Penalties felt like England’s best chance and Southgate adjusted accordingly, bringing on Rashford and Jadon Sancho with the seconds ticking away in extra-time.

His use of the bench was criminal.. so scared to make the first move... scared to make the wrong choice... The stat where Sterling, Kane, Mount combined for 339 minutes without a chance created or a shot at goal is a fireable offence. It truly is... I was cheering for England but you have to hand it to Mancini... constantly looking to change the game at the right time while always sticking with his 4-3-3. He would make brave subs where required, and adjust small tactical pieces where necessary. Masterclass. Italy played positive attacking football and won and i think we all win when that happens.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

I just came back from the celebrations. My head hurts like crazy

Same bro. What a feeling. Best migraine I’ve ever had. FORZA AZZURRI!!!

 

[StreetHawk]

Southgate will continue to be manager, which is a shame because there is a ton of talent that won't get played in order to be a defensive shell...

Really sad for Saka right now, wish he slotted it home to keep the PKs going. If he did a statue of Pickford would have been immediately built for his save on Jorghino. I'll also never understand the Rashford and Sancho subs, it's tough to go into a game cold and kick from the spot.

The 2 who took kicks 4&5, credit the goalie for making the save. Neither guy missed the net. That would be choking imo.

the kick who took the 3rd kick and tried to outwait the keeper only to hit off the post that’s the tough one to take as he didn’t force the goalie to make a save, just didn’t get it where he wanted.

same with the 2 Italians who missed. Goalie make the save on them.

really does suck when these championship games go to penalties to decide but that’s the nature of the sport.

 

[EpochLink]

England football Twitter at its worst tonight, calling out racist shit towards the players that missed the shootout kicks.