Euro: Final: Italy vs England (Part 3)

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How do you defend playing 8 defensive players? And Mount isn't even really an attacking player. It's the equivalent of playing about 8.5 defensive players.

With a coach who had any guts to put out an attacking team, Sancho, Foden, Grealish, and Kane would've been the front four. Rashford and Sterling would've been key backups. Phillips and Rice would've been made to earn their spots, and a better offensive threat such as Bellingham could've taken their spot.

England played scared the whole tournament.

 

[NorCalhockey]

England will eventually win a tournament. That's just how it goes. But on paper, they will never have a better chance than that. There will never be a better looking draw or format on paper for them. The incidents today also brought into question their ability to host anything, so I doubt that'll happen. It will always be harder on paper than that.

This! This! This! Not only was England on the "easy" side of the bracket, they basically played home matches for the entire tournament. Furthermore, on paper, England had the better squad. It really was set up for England to win, but the tactics were too negative. A comment by someone on Sirius XM hit the nail on the head for me: Southgate took a Ferrari and drove it 10 miles under the speed limit.

 

[JoemAvs]

I mean that’s Italy though. When they win it’s because they play as a team.

Yes and no. They usually win as a team playing tactically amazing football. Usually defending and playing as a collective better than other teams.
But they also always had the likes of Baggio, Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo, Del Piero, Totti.etc that were the best of the best in the world to go along with it.

They really didn't have that this time around. At all IMO. Thats what makes this even more special. The biggest names on this team are either very old in Chiellini or Bonucci or usually the unsung hero types in Verratti (who is never healthy and therefore can not even be considered a superstar) or Jorginho (who is very important to Chelsea but usually gets little spotlight next to Kanté and certainly is no superstar either.).
Heck I think the German team was pathetic and under that awful coach certainly deserved to go out early but just compare the names and what they have achieved and how they are viewed as a footballer with those that just won the title. Its Germany in a landslide. And that team isn't even that talented in comparison to what France or England could field.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

He was at his best when he was making space for Spinazzola, as well as when Immobile was making proper runs in the group stage. He needs people to get the ball to. He's the type of player that is pretty dependent on the plays to the right and left of him to be successful.

There's an issue when a player's best attribute is allowing another player to attack when said player is an attacker and the latter is a wingback. Not saying he's a bad player. He's just not someone I would have on my starting-11. Immobile was a bigger disappointment in general though.

 

[Live in the Now]

I mean that’s Italy though. When they win it’s because they play as a team.

This is kind of overblown tbh. The Italy team from 2006 had legendary players at a lot of positions. At the end of the day even though you play great as a team, you have to have some individual magic to win. Argentina showed that in their tournament with RDP and Messi, and Italy showed that in this tournament with actually quite a lot of players. This Italy team has a fair amount, but the players are younger and as a result decidedly less legendary than those players in 2006 were prior to that tournament. Fact is they had the brilliance to force England to park the bus for about 110 minutes. Their midfielders completely ran over England. These two CB's have always been great. Then Chiesa has been amazing all tournament and outplayed every defense he faced.

 

[The don godfather]

France is better than Italy on paper, and they should have no lack of motivation at the WC after what happened against the Swiss. A motivated French side is not a fun opponent.

They'd probably win a best of 7 against any team in the world, but if they lose their focus (which they did in this tournament) they can be defeated by a disciplined opponent in a single game.

I think they gonna be a handful next year. They a all star team and they have the best player in the world.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

This! This! This! Not only was England on the "easy" side of the bracket, they basically played home matches for the entire tournament. Furthermore, on paper, England had the better squad. It really was set up for England to win, but the tactics were too negative. A comment by someone on Sirius XM hit the nail on the head for me: Southgate took a Ferrari and drove it 10 miles under the speed limit.

England has a very young and talented side. They'll be a contender for the World Cup.

 

[The don godfather]

England has a very young and talented side. They'll be a contender for the World Cup.

I hope but my heart says this was their cup here. There some nasty boys in the world cup that are so hard to knock off. Brazil France Argentina. This was England time to party. Hurts and I'm not even a England fan.

 

[Suiteness]

I think they gonna be a handful next year. They a all star team and they have the best player in the world.

?

 

[Incubajerks]

Reading certain comments, you understand very well why there are nations that win and nations that never win, the difference in style and vision of football is completely different.

 

[The don godfather]

?

Killian.

 

[NorCalhockey]

France is better than Italy on paper, and they should have no lack of motivation at the WC after what happened against the Swiss. A motivated French side is not a fun opponent.

They'd probably win a best of 7 against any team in the world, but if they lose their focus (which they did in this tournament) they can be defeated by a disciplined opponent in a single game.

I never understood the beef between Giroud and Mbappe. (Or between any other French players). What was that all about?!

How do you defend playing 8 defensive players? And Mount isn't even really an attacking player. It's the equivalent of playing about 8.5 defensive players.

With a coach who had any guts to put out an attacking team, Sancho, Foden, Grealish, and Kane would've been the front four. Rashford and Sterling would've been key backups. Phillips and Rice would've been made to earn their spots, and a better offensive threat such as Bellingham could've taken their spot.

England played scared the whole tournament.

Funny how that did work for Tuchel/Chelsea. They won Champions League playing not to lose (rather than playing to win). Even though I disagreed with "Tuchel ball" (just as I disagreed with the Southgate lineup in the Final), it worked...but unfortunately, didn't work for England. Maybe it will be "coming home" when the Lady Lionesses play in their Euro tournament next year.

 

[Jussi]

If he wasn't fit, Southgate should've brought up Vardy.

Even a less than fully healthy Rashford offers more than Vardy. Plus Kane would have still played over Vardy.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

I hope but my heart says this was their cup here. There some nasty boys in the world cup that are so hard to knock off. Brazil France Argentina. This was England time to party. Hurts and I'm not even a England fan.

France overrated.
Brazil need a new coach; they have the talent but look like a "horse without a head".
Argentina I'm always a fan of, but they find ways of disappointing in major tournaments.
England will challenge, winning is a different story.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Even a less than fully healthy Rashford offers more than Vardy. Plus Kane would have still played over Vardy.

Vehemently disagree with that statement. Vardy is a quality finisher/poacher. England could've used another goal today.

 

[buddahsmoka1]

This is kind of overblown tbh. The Italy team from 2006 had legendary players at a lot of positions.

Pretty similar make-up to this year actually. World class goalie, rock solid CBs, a fantastic fullback, a dynamic, deep, and highly talented midfield, and inconsistent strikers.

 

[Live in the Now]

How do you defend playing 8 defensive players? And Mount isn't even really an attacking player. It's the equivalent of playing about 8.5 defensive players.

With a coach who had any guts to put out an attacking team, Sancho, Foden, Grealish, and Kane would've been the front four. Rashford and Sterling would've been key backups. Phillips and Rice would've been made to earn their spots, and a better offensive threat such as Bellingham could've taken their spot.

England played scared the whole tournament.

You don't win finals football by playing free flowing, attacking football. And you definitely don't do it when you're playing a team with a great midfield. The biggest factor in England's play is that they didn't control midfield enough to use an attacking team. That front four would have never had the ball for one thing. Like I said prior to this match, they basically conceded the game the moment they announced their team and they didn't use their best midfield. You need players like Rice and Henderson to control a final and control the tempo. It's no coincidence that England's best unit (defense) was also their most experienced.

There's also literally nothing that would justify taking Sterling out of their lineup. He has been the only player to create anything all tournament, except that Ukraine game which might as well have been a non factor.

Also, if we're being frank? The team that always wins these tournaments is the team that deploys the best defensive strategy. And by always I mean there's maybe one or two exceptions in the last 30 years. England did have good defensive organization and that's how they got to the final.

 

[Jussi]

Vehemently disagree with that statement. Vardy is a quality finisher/poacher. England could've used another goal today.

Rashford works defensively more than Vardy. And Southgate wouldn't have played Vardy either.

 

[Live in the Now]

You could send Messi out there in England's attack and they wouldn't have scored again. You know why? Midfield midfield midfield. They had one player have a good game there. The rest were a complete nothing, one of them is my team's captain, he's usually shit as a sub and he was shit here. He did nothing. They didn't have the ball enough to create a single chance after their goal. Finals are always won in midfield. You have to control the game and England were fortunate to not have been finished.

 

[NorCalhockey]

England has a very young and talented side. They'll be a contender for the World Cup.

I hope but my heart says this was their cup here. There some nasty boys in the world cup that are so hard to knock off. Brazil France Argentina. This was England time to party. Hurts and I'm not even a England fan.

I agree with @The don godfather. In a World Cup, England will have to contend with two additional countries that could win the tournament. So:

1. having two fewer Elite countries in the Euros
2. playing essentially a home tournament
3. going through the "easier" bracket
4. having the better squad compared to Italy
5. scoring the first goal
6. Pickford (shoutout to my Everton keeper) saving two(!!) penalties

this all added up to England's best chance to win a major tournament for the first time since 1966. Sigh...Ah well, come on you Lionesses! Win the Euro Championship next year!!!

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

How do you defend playing 8 defensive players? And Mount isn't even really an attacking player. It's the equivalent of playing about 8.5 defensive players.

With a coach who had any guts to put out an attacking team, Sancho, Foden, Grealish, and Kane would've been the front four. Rashford and Sterling would've been key backups. Phillips and Rice would've been made to earn their spots, and a better offensive threat such as Bellingham could've taken their spot.

England played scared the whole tournament.

You don’t, Southgate overplayed his hand. It’s the hockey equivalent of the 2016 World Cup of Hockey of Team USA playing defensive with Torts with an offensive roster.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I hope but my heart says this was their cup here. There some nasty boys in the world cup that are so hard to knock off. Brazil France Argentina. This was England time to party. Hurts and I'm not even a England fan.

Agreed. This was England's best chance, by far, to win a major tournament, and after the first 20 or so minutes they were decisively outplayed.

I never understood the beef between Giroud and Mbappe. (Or between any other French players). What was that all about?!

I'm not the one to ask, I'm stupid and new.

Pretty similar make-up to this year actually. World class goalie, rock solid CBs, a fantastic fullback, a dynamic, deep, and highly talented midfield, and inconsistent strikers.

It's funny how the two teams are similar in some ways on paper and yet play(ed) very differently.

I wouldn't like 2021's chances against 2006 in a series or a one-off. That 2006 team was a true pain in the ass to play against.

 

[NorCalhockey]

France overrated.
Brazil need a new coach; they have the talent but look like a "horse without a head".
Argentina I'm always a fan of, but they find ways of disappointing in major tournaments.
England will challenge, winning is a different story.

Depending on one's pov, Copa America is/is not a major tournament. (I don't think it is). But congrats to Messi for finally winning a Big Trophy with Argentina (or so I heard on the radio, since I didn't watch a single Copa America game).

 

[ecemleafs]

Depending on one's pov, Copa America is/is not a major tournament. (I don't think it is). But congrats to Messi for finally winning a Big Trophy with Argentina (or so I heard on the radio, since I didn't watch a single Copa America game).

lol how is copa america not a major tournament? its the continental championship for 2 powerhouse soccer nations and 3 or so other big time teams that are capable of winning any year. its also the only tournament that isnt the world cup that those teams can play in...

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I wouldn't like 2021's chances against 2006 in a series or a one-off. That 2006 team was a true pain in the ass to play against.

2006. Two goals conceded. 1 was an OG, the other a PK to Zidane. Cannavaro, Nesta, Zambrotta, Totti, and a young De Rossi and Pirlo. They absolutely dominated.