Final Fantasy XV - Part 2

[Butchered]

Tactics is spectacular. Final Fantasy VIII and XIII are the only entries in the series I actively dislike.

 

[67 others]

Neither was Tidus (as goofy and infamous as he was), or Vaan for that matter (or Balthier, Ashe or Basche, if we're being particular about who the main character was)..

People have weird ideas about what emo means these days. From a 37 year old's point of view based on what emo meant back when I was in my 20's. It seems to have spawned into a fashion statement in the past 15 years.

Emo originally stands for outwardly emotional. The term came from bands, particularly softcore pop Punk and bands like Simple plan, who cry on stage during their performances.

Tidus was a loud whiny kid with Daddy issues. Of course he was Emo.

He threw emotional tantrums, whined about how Daddy didn't hug him enough and dressed in a Yellow and blue zippered Ledenhosen. At one point in the game, he had Auron by the lapels shrieking "Its all your fault" over and over in a high speed whine while hopping up and down.

I actually empathized with Jecht for trying to toughen the little twerp up because he WAS a wimpy kid.

By the end of the game, at least he matured a little.

Cloud wasn't emo until Advent children. Till then he was kind of a jerk at times.

Squall was actually the opposite of emo. To be emo, you generally have to be outwardly emotional. He did not show emotions at all(In fact he tried to repress them) and was an annoying overthinking quiet loner(brooding ******). If anything, he was a typical goth without the suicidal thoughts.

9 was so annoying I don't remember most of the characters. Played through it twice just to complete everything, but it is terribly overrated. I feel the same about all the 13 games, except almost nobody likes those games. 13 was almost as linear as 10.

Vaan wasn't emo at all. He dressed like a fruitcake, but for the most part he was just a tagalong. Played through every game from 1 to 12 in the last 6 months and I forgot how much I enjoyed 12's open world and I was surprised at how NON whiny Vaan was because I had not played it in so long.

 

[67 others]

I liked the characters in X since they actually had backstories and were meaningful. Unlike FF12 where I literally could not care at all about any of them. Zero character development in that game which I need in my FF games.

12 was for the hardcore gamers who played since FF1.

Back when we could give a **** about story and want solid gameplay with open world exploration. 12 eats X for breakfast for me.

X was a linear piece of crap built for people who need their hands held in a straight line to the end(In fact 13 and X were much the same). But oh! It had a good story..........with a whiny emo main character.

I still don't see how Tidus character resonates with some people. I just can't empathize with his character at all. by the middle of the story, I was happy to see his dad was trying to toughen him up because he was such a whiny wimp. I would do the same.

They really should break final fantasy into 2 series. 1 for people who love story and playthrough and 1 for people who like gameplay and exploring challenging areas they are not experienced enough for yet, but possibly getting that awesome treasure early.

 

[syz]

**** Coeurls. And Bombs. But mostly Coeurls.

edit: Oh my god **** Coeurls. The combat in this game isn't built for these *******. My party just keeps killing themselves and I can't do enough damage by myself to outwork their heal.

 

[misterchainsaw]

People have weird ideas about what emo means these days. From a 37 year old's point of view based on what emo meant back when I was in my 20's. It seems to have spawned into a fashion statement in the past 15 years.

Emo originally stands for outwardly emotional. The term came from bands, particularly softcore pop Punk and bands like Simple plan, who cry on stage during their performances.

Tidus was a loud whiny kid with Daddy issues. Of course he was Emo.

He threw emotional tantrums, whined about how Daddy didn't hug him enough and dressed in a Yellow and blue zippered Ledenhosen. At one point in the game, he had Auron by the lapels shrieking "Its all your fault" over and over in a high speed whine while hopping up and down.

I actually empathized with Jecht for trying to toughen the little twerp up because he WAS a wimpy kid.

By the end of the game, at least he matured a little.

Cloud wasn't emo until Advent children. Till then he was kind of a jerk at times.

Squall was actually the opposite of emo. To be emo, you generally have to be outwardly emotional. He did not show emotions at all(In fact he tried to repress them) and was an annoying overthinking quiet loner(brooding ******). If anything, he was a typical goth without the suicidal thoughts.

9 was so annoying I don't remember most of the characters. Played through it twice just to complete everything, but it is terribly overrated. I feel the same about all the 13 games, except almost nobody likes those games. 13 was almost as linear as 10.

Vaan wasn't emo at all. He dressed like a fruitcake, but for the most part he was just a tagalong. Played through every game from 1 to 12 in the last 6 months and I forgot how much I enjoyed 12's open world and I was surprised at how NON whiny Vaan was because I had not played it in so long.

Actually, musically emo actually referred to bands that were extremely raw singers and music that had a drastic loud/soft dynamic. Sunny Day Real Estate being the most prominent early example (check out the song "48") and Jimmy Eat World coming a little later (they had a few discs out before Bleed American exploded). More recently Brand New's CD "The Devil And God are Raging Inside Me" is a great example, but I wouldn't call say that for any of their other CD's.

Then came Dashboard Confessional (which was actually the opposite of what original "emo" music was) to completely change what was considered "emo" and then flat out pop-punk bands like Simple Plan and Good Charlotte came along further distorting it. I would say Thursday was a band from that time period you could accurately describe as "emo" using the original meaning, and people insisted on calling them "screamo"

Anyway, as per your point on FF, I agree with you. Vaan was actually refreshingly not whiny - just rather unnecessary to the story. FFXII had by far the best voice acting in the series, which helps.

 

[FLYLine27*]

12 was for the hardcore gamers who played since FF1.

Back when we could give a **** about story and want solid gameplay with open world exploration. 12 eats X for breakfast for me.

X was a linear piece of crap built for people who need their hands held in a straight line to the end(In fact 13 and X were much the same). But oh! It had a good story..........with a whiny emo main character.

I still don't see how Tidus character resonates with some people. I just can't empathize with his character at all. by the middle of the story, I was happy to see his dad was trying to toughen him up because he was such a whiny wimp. I would do the same.

They really should break final fantasy into 2 series. 1 for people who love story and playthrough and 1 for people who like gameplay and exploring challenging areas they are not experienced enough for yet, but possibly getting that awesome treasure early.

Gameplay in FFX was fantastic....

 

[67 others]

Gameplay in FFX was fantastic....

Disagree. The sphere system was basically normal leveling except you had to physically push it and do work instead of it being done for you. Kimari aside, nobody had enough variation for it to be useful until endgame.

The lack of ability to go off course is in X, again, for people who like having their hands held through a story instead of having an exploration like previous final fantasy games. Losing the overworld map drives this fact home.

Furthermore, the puzzles in each temple were merely annoying and time consuming instead of challenging.

In short, 10 was as linear in gameplay as 13 and I hate linear. 12 was superior in every way in terms of exploration, world and old school. 12 was also most comparable to 6 in terms of "no main character, level whoever you like". 12 also heavily incorporated hunts for people who wanted challenge. Hunts were in fact better than the main story. Which admittedly was a bit weak, especially the final boss. But vanilla main story has never interested me much compared to the chocolate of exploration.

Keep in mind this is all just my opinion. I like what I like and hate what I hate.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

FFX's gameplay was turn based perfection. And the sphere grid was revolutionary for its time (and parroted in countless JRPGs since). The sphere grid in the remaster was even better, offering a ton of customization.

The story and character complaints in FFX are all valid, but criticizing its gameplay is barking up the wrong tree. It's the best turn based system of all time by several critical accounts, all of whom I agree with.

Edit: It's important to differentiate the linearity of world exploration and level design from the turn based combat itself. When I say FFX's gameplay was "perfect" I'm referring only to the turn based combat/sphere grid/equipment. There were obvious issues with linearity in the level and dungeon designs.

 

[syz]

FFX's combat was me using Quick Attack on everything until it died.

Persona has better turn based combat.

 

[FLYLine27*]

FFX's gameplay was turn based perfection. And the sphere grid was revolutionary for its time (and parroted in countless JRPGs since). The sphere grid in the remaster was even better, offering a ton of customization.

The story and character complaints in FFX are all valid, but criticizing its gameplay is barking up the wrong tree. It's the best turn based system of all time by several critical accounts, all of whom I agree with.

Edit: It's important to differentiate the linearity of world exploration and level design from the turn based combat itself. When I say FFX's gameplay was "perfect" I'm referring only to the turn based combat/sphere grid/equipment. There were obvious issues with linearity in the level and dungeon designs.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Lessavyfav]

The music in Lestallum reminds me of tropico

 

[RandV]

FFX's combat was me using Quick Attack on everything until it died.

Persona has better turn based combat.

What are you talking about? I mean I suppose maybe you could do that, but it would be highly inefficient because each character was specialized towards specific sets of monsters.

Persona and how FFX is kind of simplistic in comparison, but the 'use quick attack on everything until it dies' thing has been a long standing staple of the genre - Final Fantasy included. FFX was the best system to date because it was fast pace and kept you a little more engaged than usual, and one touch I personally liked is it kept all party members involved in the battle (rather than only picking 3-4 for the current stage and leaving the rest at home).

Actually, I'd say FFX is basically Persona on easy mode. In Persona you have to attack the enemies by their weaknesses, except what those are you have to both figure it out and then remember on your own... repeatedly as things change every few levels. In FFX you're also supposed to attack according to weaknesses, but everything is telegraphed for you and doesn't change throughout the game.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

FFX's gameplay was turn based perfection. And the sphere grid was revolutionary for its time (and parroted in countless JRPGs since). The sphere grid in the remaster was even better, offering a ton of customization.

The story and character complaints in FFX are all valid, but criticizing its gameplay is barking up the wrong tree. It's the best turn based system of all time by several critical accounts, all of whom I agree with.

Edit: It's important to differentiate the linearity of world exploration and level design from the turn based combat itself. When I say FFX's gameplay was "perfect" I'm referring only to the turn based combat/sphere grid/equipment. There were obvious issues with linearity in the level and dungeon designs.

While I'll buy the argument that the battle system in FFX was very good, it's well short of anything close to the best ever unless you're specifically talking about the FF series.

That belongs to the Grandia series. By all of the distance.

As seen with Grandia III, however, not even the best battle system can save a game where I want to suffocate all of the characters.

 

[67 others]

FFX's combat was me using Quick Attack on everything until it died.

Persona has better turn based combat.

Or just having Aeons charged before battle.

 

[67 others]

FFX's gameplay was turn based perfection. And the sphere grid was revolutionary for its time (and parroted in countless JRPGs since). The sphere grid in the remaster was even better, offering a ton of customization.

The story and character complaints in FFX are all valid, but criticizing its gameplay is barking up the wrong tree. It's the best turn based system of all time by several critical accounts, all of whom I agree with.

Edit: It's important to differentiate the linearity of world exploration and level design from the turn based combat itself. When I say FFX's gameplay was "perfect" I'm referring only to the turn based combat/sphere grid/equipment. There were obvious issues with linearity in the level and dungeon designs.

Not to me. Its all part of my gameplay experience. The combat system was a decent take on the existing system. I preferred Materia and Espers, etc. Better than Drawing, ill give it that. 12 blew it away despite its giant leap from the norm

 

[Mikeaveli]

Yeah chapter 13 is terrible lol.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Not to me. Its all part of my gameplay experience. The combat system was a decent take on the existing system. I preferred Materia and Espers, etc. Better than Drawing, ill give it that. 12 blew it away despite its giant leap from the norm

None of these listed games are turn based. FF6, 7, 8, and 12 are all variants of the ATB system introduced in 4.

Edit: Do people here understand the difference between turn based and ATB variant combat systems? I saw Grandia mentioned, as well. Again, not turn based.

 

[RandV]

None of these listed games are turn based. FF6, 7, 8, and 12 are all variants of the ATB system introduced in 4.

Edit: Do people here understand the difference between turn based and ATB variant combat systems? I saw Grandia mentioned, as well. Again, not turn based.

That's probably getting a little too specific. Just because you have to wait for a timer in VI before selecting you're move doesn't make it fundamentally different from the combat system in IV.

I'd say the fundamental basics of 'turn based' JRPG combat is a combination of:

1. You hit a random encounter or walk into an onscreen enemy
2. There's a transition to a new screen and/or UI where the combat will take place
3. You make your moves by selecting from a menu of options.

Detractors often say that JRPG's are 'stale' but they've actually been innovating on the basic combat since the SNES days. Apart from Dragon Quest, pretty much every series tries a slightly different take on the usual combat system. And for the numbered single player FF series the first one to take a departure from it was XII which took more of a MMO style of combat. Personally I'd say there's 4 different categories here: traditional, action, tactical, and MMO.

In regards to the game with the best turn based/traditional combat... I'd go with a real dark horse and say the parody game Epic Battle Fantasy IV. A very classic approach that takes a little bit from everything and becomes very deep.

 

[misterchainsaw]

Yeah, if you have to wait for a meter to fill for it to be a character's "turn", it's turn based. XII is the only one before XV that even pushed that line and I'd still argue it's more turn based than not.

Arguing games like IV, VI, VII, etc are not turn-based because of the ATB (which you can even turn off) is quibbling to the extreme.

And while we're on the topic, I quite enjoyed Eternal Sonata's system - each character/enemy had distinct turns, but during your turn you had a set amount of time (depending on the chapter) to do whatever you wanted. The plot may have fallen apart towards the end, but the changing of the ground rules as you progress chapters helped keep combat fresh.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Agree to disagree, I guess. Time is a major element to effective combat in VI, VII, etc., whereas X was truly based on sequential, conditional turns. ATB fundamentally changes combat for me because it adds a time constraint. But maybe that's just me.

 

[misterchainsaw]

Agree to disagree, I guess. Time is a major element to effective combat in VI, VII, etc., whereas X was truly based on sequential, conditional turns. ATB fundamentally changes combat for me because it adds a time constraint. But maybe that's just me.

Regardless, Grandia freezes time when it's time to input commands. There's no argument whatsoever against the idea that Grandia, at least, is a turn based system.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Yeah, if you have to wait for a meter to fill for it to be a character's "turn", it's turn based. XII is the only one before XV that even pushed that line and I'd still argue it's more turn based than not.

Arguing games like IV, VI, VII, etc are not turn-based because of the ATB (which you can even turn off) is quibbling to the extreme.

And while we're on the topic, I quite enjoyed Eternal Sonata's system - each character/enemy had distinct turns, but during your turn you had a set amount of time (depending on the chapter) to do whatever you wanted. The plot may have fallen apart towards the end, but the changing of the ground rules as you progress chapters helped keep combat fresh.

Eternal Sonata was an awesome game.

Lost Odyssey was also an excellent last generation, turn-based RPG. It was just sooo traditional that reviewers tore it apartment.

For me FFX was the best RPG I've ever played. It was also my first RPG ever, so I am biased. Never been more attached to a group of characters. FFXII blew my damn mind though - couldn't get attached to the story, but everything else was incresible.

 

[RandV]

Agree to disagree, I guess. Time is a major element to effective combat in VI, VII, etc., whereas X was truly based on sequential, conditional turns. ATB fundamentally changes combat for me because it adds a time constraint. But maybe that's just me.

I think that's just you. All those games have the options where you can turn off the timer when in any menu, so the time constraint has little meaning. Also in the older games only one unit could attack at a time, so after giving a character a command they'd go in a queue and their timer would stop until it was their turn. And in the PS1 Final Fantasy's the battle animations could be pretty long, I noticed this playing FFIX on Steam this year that I'd often have all 4 characters queued up just waiting for the enemy to finish their attack.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Regardless, Grandia freezes time when it's time to input commands. There's no argument whatsoever against the idea that Grandia, at least, is a turn based system.

Except for the fact that its key battle mechanic comes down to timing? And your positioning matters? And you can move your character around? You and I have very different definitions of turn based JRPGs.

I can buy some of the ATB FFs as technically turn based games, but not Grandia 2. If anything, Grandia helped pioneer action RPGs.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I can buy some of the ATB FFs as technically turn based games, but not Grandia 2. If anything, Grandia helped pioneer action RPGs.

I just threw up in my mouth a bit. You may not be completely wrong (IRT people taking the wrong message away from the Grandia battle system), but I want you to be. Generally speaking I abhor ARPGs and find the first two Grandia games to be two of the best JRPGs ever made with a perfect battle system.

That battle system is perfection...and I've never played an ARPG and said anything positive about the battle system. I just don't enjoy the inherent mechanics in those types of games, not even Secret of Mana could move the needle for me there.

Then again you're making the argument that ATB isn't turn-based, and that's getting way too into semantics for my liking. The mechanics of a genre inherently evolve as the technology allows them to and if we categorize these disparate games united by sharing 90% of their mechanics because of the differences in the 10% I think we're missing the point. Final Fantasy, FFVII, FFX, FFXII, Grandia 2, Lunar, Persona 4, Tokyo Mirage Sessions...at the end of the day they're all JRPGs. Generally speaking I think if you control every character in your team, then you have a turn-based system...not the ability to swap between characters, I mean that if you go into a battle with 3 or 4 or however many characters on your side and when their turn comes up you pick their move...it's a turn-based system.