so you know for a fact the Wild told Fiala to f*** off? Typically on long-term contracts, the AAV is usually lower to help out the team and maybe just maybe Fiala wasn't willing to bend so the Wild offered a shorter-term contract at a salary they thought he was worth at the time. But no Guerin decided to tell him to f*** off instead. Your hatred for Guerin not doing WHAT YOU WANT is clouding your judgment. Aren't you the individual that said you're done being a fan of this team because they essentially didn't do what you wanted them too?
Confirmed with Link: Fiala to LA for Brock Faber and '22 1st
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Dr Jan Itor
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Because you still have to iron out the specifics of the deal, and apparently he has a history of being a "pain in the ass" during these negotiations.
Just noting that with Guerin not on the other end, things seemed to go pretty smooth all around.
This isn't exactly true.
And again...since this is reportedly where he "wanted to be" I'm sure those specifics were pretty easy to iron out. This isn't just a Guerin deal since it was also reported he had issues in Nashville too. So what's more likely here is he didn't really want to be in Nashville or Minnesota but since he was an RFA, he didn't have much or really any leverage so he was a pain about it to try and get some...now...with this deal, he's not one anymore and he's "where he wants to be"
But that doesn't fit the Guerin sucks narrative...
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Didn't want to be here, yet by all accounts term was the hang up during last summer's contract talks.
Definitely possible that he no longer wanted to be here this summer, but that'd be the result of other things, a year in the making.
And I don't think Guerin "sucks". I just don't agree with this decision, and continue to be on the skeptical side in regards to somebody that doesn't have a proven track record of being a successful GM. If he ends up being just that, I'll reserve the right to alter my opinion of him.
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OK, so let's say the Wild wanted a shorter term, a "prove it" deal. He proved he's can be good in the regular season, but still streaky and a perceived liability on defense.
Is it somehow bad the Wild didn't want to commit long term when there hadn't been full seasons of proof that he could be a top left wing? I wouldn't blame management for wanting to see it in a full season, or multiple. COVID sucks for his timing in terms of being a FA, but that's not his nor the Wild's fault.
It could be just all the timing somehow created bad feelings as Fiala may have felt he had "proved it" but management didn't. Is management at fault for that? Maybe. But if Fiala decided to be a pain in negotiations because he wasn't getting what he wanted, management isn't going to want to keep a perceived problem around.
The truth is, both sides are likely stubborn and at fault and a divorce was needed. The fans can bitch about it, but that's business.
But to spin well the contract was easy in LA so Guerin must be the dick here is a big time stretch.
the bolded piece you call out uses the word "TYPICALLY" which in a lot of instances is true -- longer-term contracts typically have a lower AAV than shorter-term contracts. I just don't know why we have to dance around things like this and nit-pick. If I said 100% of the time that this is the case then I would be fine with you calling that portion out as not correct but that's not what I did.
The loathing some of you have for Guerin is actually becoming comical and it's clouding your judgment. Guerin is trying to build a Stanley cup winner and if he doesn't do things the way "YOU" folks think he should then he's a bum and needs to go.
I'm not sure why some of you guys even follow this team anymore -- you folks are so critical of everything that is done by Guerin that there just can't be any enjoyment left for you guys watching this team. I guess maybe you Guerin bashers sit around hoping all of his moves fail so you can come on HF and say "I told you he was a bum and needed to be fired".
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Didn't seem to bother them with JEE. But like I said before, Guerin seems to have a type. Dumba should be an interesting case coming up.
Not every player will be treated the same, film at 11. EVERY GM has favorites...that's human nature.
Maybe because JEE was ok taking less money per year for a longer-term and that's why his contract was easy peasy? From things Russo has stated in the past it seems like Fiala wanted longer-term along with a high salary which may be why he isn't on this team anymore. I'm of the belief that if Fiala would have accepted less $$$$ for the longer-term security then he would still be part of this team.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
That is actually the opposite of what I sit around hoping for. I'm not that narcissistic.
Let me ask you, what has Guerin done, with the Wild or in the NHL, that has earned him the right to not be questioned about anything? We can't critically think about how his decided course of action might impact the present and future of a team that we all like? That doesn't sound very fun.
I think you just need to not take the criticisms of him so personal. It's the job he signed up for.
And longer-term contract do not typically have lower AAV than shorter term. It's actually the opposite. Kaprizov signed for 5 x $9M. Upping the years to 8 isn't going to bring his AAV down to $8M, it's going to bring it up to $10M+
And this is one aspect of the discussion that we are having: whether Fiala should've been treated more like Eriksson Ek, why he wasn't, and whether or not it is/was/will be the correct decision.
I stated earlier I believe in this thread that Guerin has helped build the most exciting and competitive team that I have watched since the early days when we were going to the conf finals. With that said Guerin isn't perfect and there are things I wish he would have gotten done or would have traded for X but that's not reality.
I'm ok with folks being caught up in the moment and second-guessing decisions but for gosh sakes the vitriol around Guerin is getting ridiculous and sucking the fun out of coming to these HF forums.
Let me ask you, has Guerin done anything with the Wild that you feel has been competent or has he just f***** up everything like a lot of folks think?
Minnewildsota
He who laughs last thinks slowest
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Dr Jan Itor
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And I think that a lot of people point out that much those pieces were brought in by previous GMs. I do give him at least partial credit for retaining guys though.
I think the Zucker trade was pretty good, and I'll even admit to taking an L on that one since I would've preferred, at the time, to trade Foligno instead. I'm good with the Brodin contract, good with the Kaprizov contract. I don't kill him for the Spurgeon contract since it was signed pre-pandemic and the cap should probably be close to or above $90M right now, but even at the time, I couldn't exactly dunk on anybody that disliked it based on his age. Obviously the Hartman contract was good but that kind of fell into his lap. Everything else, I consider to be minor enough that I don't get riled up over it in either direction. I just simply disagree with him about his choice not to invest in Fiala, but even then I don't believe that I called for his firing or anything. I don't hate the guy, but he also doesn't exactly have Yzerman equity as a GM either.
So this is my issue -- Guerin signs a guy to a fantastic contract and he won't get credit for it (it just fell into his lap).
How many GM's in this league are as good as Stevie Y? Honestly though what has Stevie Y done since leaving Tampa - I mean Detroit is a freaking mess.
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That, and the fact that the team has a play-in round exit and two first round exits in his three seasons, which isn't any better than any of his predecessors. Almost every GM is trying to build a Cup winner, that doesn't afford him any extra leniency in his moves unless he actually does build a Cup winner.
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How much credit do you want to give him? It's a good contract for a bottom six player. How much credit is that worth on its own? It looks like a great contract because the coaching staff had to turn around and play him on the first line. Do you give credit to Guerin for giving a good contract to a bottom six player, or do you give him credit for putting his coaching staff in a position to have to use a bottom six winger as the first line center?
how about we call out the previous regime for signing Parise and Suter to these absurd 13 yr contracts that put the current regime in a bind! You're ok reaching into the past and stating why Guerin doesn't get credit because a lot of these guys were brought in by previous GMs. Well if that's the case then the previous GMs should get the credit for causing the cap hell we're in right now. It goes both ways but some of you aren't willing to acknowledge that and that's the part I get frustrated with. Guerin doesn't deserve any positive credit because he's not doing what you all want him to do but anything bad that has happened is all his fault -- even the parise and suter contracts.
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Notice how I haven't once brought up the dead cap or the buyouts in this conversation? And specifically have not blamed Guerin for them?
not sure why this is some contest on how much credit should or shouldn't Guerin get for the decision he makes. I want a winner and I feel like Guerin gives us the best chance we've had from the list of GMs we've had. The 2 previous GMs made some decisions that have caused cap hell for the current team and unfortunately, Guerin has to pick up the pieces of those decisions.
Guerin isn't perfect and he's made some questionable decisions but so far I still have the belief that he can take us to the promised land.
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You tell me, you're the one making a big deal about him not getting enough credit, not me, so I have no clue.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
"Kind of". It was clear that Hartman favored stability over money, but yes, Guerin still had to lock it up.
Detroit isn't a mess, they're building. He showed up when they were at the bottom of the league. I'm just saying that it's easier to give someone the benefit of the doubt when you've seen them have success elsewhere. Guerin was a part of Pittsburgh, but wasn't running the show.
Listen I'm not trying to be a dick or point fingers at anyone in particular on how much Guerin bashing goes on but these threads tend to turn pretty negative when Guerin does pretty much anything.
I'm a die-hard Wild fan and really enjoy coming to these boards and "mostly" reading what you all have to say with me occasionally engaging in some of the chat. I was just trying to point out that all this negativity is sucking the fun out of coming here.
I'll go back to just reading and let you all have your fun.
go Wild!
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
It's a polarizing move because it involves one of the most talented players that this franchise has ever had.
Fiala was traded. This is the thread to discuss the trade. Not everybody is going to be celebrating that it happened. If that's too negative for you, I don't really know what to say. Aside from one guy that REALLY hates it, I feel like most people have been fairly docile about it, all things considered.
I really like the return, our future defense should be set!
Two straight disappearing acts in the playoffs had me ehhh about him anyways
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Two straight disappearing acts in the playoffs had me ehhh about him anyways
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