Feel The Chill - Official [CHL] St. Charles Chill thread

[intangible]

Oh, I'm not talking about trying to right the ship.. I'm talking about reducing cost. You have to figure Rivers is the team's biggest personnel expense. The way they're going -- just lost again tonight -- they would do just as well under the Assistant Coach as they have with an ex-NHLer. Or maybe it's the Assistant Coach who gets the ax next to save cost. Just can't imagine they can keep it running with just over 2,000 people and likely the majority of them being for $5.

 

[JeffNYI]

Oh, I'm not talking about trying to right the ship.. I'm talking about reducing cost. You have to figure Rivers is the team's biggest personnel expense. The way they're going -- just lost again tonight -- they would do just as well under the Assistant Coach as they have with an ex-NHLer. Or maybe it's the Assistant Coach who gets the ax next to save cost. Just can't imagine they can keep it running with just over 2,000 people and likely the majority of them being for $5.

I mean.. I'm just guessing here.. but given everything that went on and all the pre-launch uncertainty surrounding the Chill, there's got to be NO WAY that Rivers agreed to coach the team without signing a fully guaranteed contract for the season..

Presumably, he's also smart enough that the contract would be enforceable against the Mavericks as well as the Chill.

So I think firing their coach would actually cost them money.

I cannot envision a scenario whereby Rivers agreed to coach without guaranteed salary for the entire season..

 

[mk80]

Well I know during the Chill's period of inactivity this past summer Rivers looked for and almost excepted a head coaching position in England. I don't think the losing record is entirely Rivers' fault, I think he is doing the best with what they have given and it is a situation of a good coach gets stuck with a bad team. I would love to see him take a job elsewhere to build a better coaching resume. If I were him I'd be knocking on the doors of the Pepsi Coliseum in Indy to try and get hired on as an assistant coach there next season.

 

[nottchi]

I'm not sure how true the head coach in England rumor was. It was talked about for a while but most of us came to the conclusion it was a wind-up.
Rivers is friends with Fox who was captain for my team over here last season, now Fox is playing there along with other players that have played here... maybe he was just scouting for cheap players.

On a side note, how is Andrew Conboy doing? He definitely made an impact the short time he was over here!?!

 

[mk80]

It was more than rumor, I remember reading a tweet back in the spring by Rivers saying something like "My family and I have talked and have decided England is not the right place for me right now..." and thanking the team for the offer.

 

[intangible]

I mean.. I'm just guessing here.. but given everything that went on and all the pre-launch uncertainty surrounding the Chill, there's got to be NO WAY that Rivers agreed to coach the team without signing a fully guaranteed contract for the season..

Eh, perhaps, though there are always "ways" to get out of those contracts.

BTW, only 3,500 in attendance for "Pink the Rink" night, which seemed to be about a month late, but they really marketed the hell out of it online, even going so far as to have a live band afterward, jersey auction, raffle, and gave away tickets around town again.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

They have Mathieu Corbeil who was assigned to the club after being sent down by the Canucks.
Chad Costello, former ECHL MVP has signed with the club.
They have a young kid in Max Mobley who could take this league by storm. He's fast, skilled offensively and not inept defensively.
Jordan Fox as joined the team after playing in the UK.
Steve Makway has joined the team as well.

They have offensive depth, good two way players and a strong defense. With Corbeil in net, they could end up being a team to be reckoned with. It was just a pre-season game last night but they dominated the Mavericks last night shutting them out 2-0 with the use of all three goalies.

So now, let's recap this preview:

Costello - cut while leading the team in scoring.
Mobley - cut after five games with zero points and a -6 rating. Clearly, he wasn't skilled offensively and pretty inept defensively.
Fox - 6g, 10a, -8
Makway - 6g, 4a, -12
Corbeil - reassigned.

The team overall? 3-10-4, 10 points, last place, -21 goal differential.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

The response has been amazing by the fans. The River Otters who used to play there used to have a pretty good following and with the staff there, I could see this team lasting here for a while. Especially with the class of players who are with the team.

You've gotten one thing right - the response by fans has been amazing. It's just been amazing in the wrong way.

 

[Off da post and in]

So now, let's recap this preview:

Costello - cut while leading the team in scoring.
Mobley - cut after five games with zero points and a -6 rating. Clearly, he wasn't skilled offensively and pretty inept defensively.
Fox - 6g, 10a, -8
Makway - 6g, 4a, -12
Corbeil - reassigned.

The team overall? 3-10-4, 10 points, last place, -21 goal differential.

If you followed the situation in St. Charles more closely you would know that Costello and Kraemer weren't "CUT", they jumped to the Ontario Reign(ECHL) as a package deal. Do you really think the Chill kicked them out and they both just happened to land on the same team?

As for Corbeil, how many goalies would still be on a team with a 5.35 goals against and a .831 save percentage? If you looked at the game reports you would also notice that he was pulled out of 2 games.

The +/- for Makway and Fox are more indicitive of the 2 early season blowouts and defensive problems the Chill had. As of late (2-7-2) their seven losses are all one goal defeats in regulation and two Shootouts. At this time the Chill's biggest problems are dumb penalties and mental errors in the third period.

Your assessment of Mobley is accurate in my opinion, but Randall Ritchey did state in one of his articles that Mobley was going to take the league by storm.

 

[mk80]

Honestly the Chill are failing in every way possible, attendance, performance, management, marketing, ect. I never like to see teams fail and fold, but I also like to see what's best for hockey in general happen. The beat thing for St Charles hockey is the Family Arena being bought or used by Lindenwood's men's and women's program. The men's program will eventually be NCAA D1 and the biggest setback is the fact they don't play in a D1 quality arena. The Women's program already is D1 in the CHA

 

[Off da post and in]

Honestly the Chill are failing in every way possible, attendance, performance, management, marketing, ect. I never like to see teams fail and fold, but I also like to see what's best for hockey in general happen....

Maybe I've just misunderstood your posts over the last few months pertaining to anything the Chill or the CHL does or doesn't do.You've been critical of everything and seemingly exude a hope that they just fall flat on their faces. Is that what you meant by what you like to see as best for hockey?

Is it possible that your business model is somewhat unrealistic expecting an expansion team to have immediate sellout crowds, a +.550 winning percentage, flawless player signings with no player movement or defections, and a marketing strategy that would marvel the NHL's finest. BTW, the Chill is an expansion team that brought nothing from Laredo (players, coaches, owners, uniforms, name, or equipment) to St. Charles except a CHL franchise license.

Remember this the 'Sports Town' of St.Louis were only the Cardinals can draw. The Blues are one of the best teams in the NHL and are ranked 21st out of 30 in NHL attendance, and the Rams are 31st out of 32 in the NFL. There is a reason that over the years the Hawks (NBA), Browns (MLB),and Cardinals (NFL) have left that area. Geez, even Budweiser sold out to the Euros.

Time will tell if the Chill folds, or leaves for another town, but as Cyclones Rock stated in the "CHL: The Slow Spin Down the Bowl..." thread there are nearly 10-14 ECHL teams that have major issues. However, those you don't fixate on like you do the Chill and CHL.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

As for Corbeil, how many goalies would still be on a team with a 5.35 goals against and a .831 save percentage? If you looked at the game reports you would also notice that he was pulled out of 2 games.

The +/- for Makway and Fox are more indicitive of the 2 early season blowouts and defensive problems the Chill had. As of late (2-7-2) their seven losses are all one goal defeats in regulation and two Shootouts. At this time the Chill's biggest problems are dumb penalties and mental errors in the third period.

Your assessment of Mobley is accurate in my opinion, but Randall Ritchey did state in one of his articles that Mobley was going to take the league by storm.

I'd contend that Corbeil is gone because Vancouver didn't want the kid to be ruined by playing on the disaster that Rivers put together in St. Chucky. After all, he seems to be off to a pretty damn good start in Wheeling - but you probably haven't looked at that.

I guess you haven't looked at Makway and Fox's game-by-game stats. You know that you can find that info on Pointstreak, right? If you had looked at that, you'd see that those "early season blowouts" have less to do with Makway and Fox's craptacular ratings than their games "of late" in that 2-7-2 stretch do. Makway is -9 in that span, Fox is -5.

I'm critical of the Chill and the CHL because they do things the wrong way. They threw a team together in a good market, undercapitalized the business and put an incompetent staff and front office in place and expected fans to fall all over themselves because hockey was back. If we want hockey to grow and be successful, this kind of crap MUST STOP. When teams like this come into a market, they poison the well. What's best for hockey is that leagues set up expansion franchises the right way, that the require owners properly capitalize their business, and do the marketing legwork well in advance.

That's not an unrealistic expectation, since we've seen it done plenty of times. We've also seen things done the wrong way to recognize when it's happening. Let's not forget all the preseason lurching that made a lot of people wonder if the Chill would play at all. It's not an unrealistic expectation to expect that a league would want to set up franchises for success rather than failure.

Further, winning really doesn't equate to success on the bottom line in the low minors. But player defections are not a good sign. Why do you think the Chill's two top players left? Because Ontario offered them more money? Maybe. Because St. Chucky is a gongshow? More likely.

 

[Off da post and in]

I'd contend that Corbeil is gone because Vancouver didn't want the kid to be ruined by playing on the disaster that Rivers put together in St. Chucky. After all, he seems to be off to a pretty damn good start in Wheeling - but you probably haven't looked at that.

Well I'm amused that you aren't aware of the fact that Steve Anthony, #16 on the Chill, IS ALSO A VANCOUVER prospect and they kept him with the Chill. Looks like they aren't worried about him being ruined by Rivers' St. Chucky.

[MOD]

The part about the two players leaving for more $$$, and the Chill being a gongshow. However, even with Costello scoring 9pts. in 6 games he was still (-2), and Kraemer scoring 7pts. in 9 games was still (-4). So are they exonerated, or were they part of the problem???

 

[mk80]

Maybe I've just misunderstood your posts over the last few months pertaining to anything the Chill or the CHL does or doesn't do.You've been critical of everything and seemingly exude a hope that they just fall flat on their faces. Is that what you meant by what you like to see as best for hockey?

Is it possible that your business model is somewhat unrealistic expecting an expansion team to have immediate sellout crowds, a +.550 winning percentage, flawless player signings with no player movement or defections, and a marketing strategy that would marvel the NHL's finest. BTW, the Chill is an expansion team that brought nothing from Laredo (players, coaches, owners, uniforms, name, or equipment) to St. Charles except a CHL franchise license.

Remember this the 'Sports Town' of St.Louis were only the Cardinals can draw. The Blues are one of the best teams in the NHL and are ranked 21st out of 30 in NHL attendance, and the Rams are 31st out of 32 in the NFL. There is a reason that over the years the Hawks (NBA), Browns (MLB),and Cardinals (NFL) have left that area. Geez, even Budweiser sold out to the Euros.

Time will tell if the Chill folds, or leaves for another town, but as Cyclones Rock stated in the "CHL: The Slow Spin Down the Bowl..." thread there are nearly 10-14 ECHL teams that have major issues. However, those you don't fixate on like you do the Chill and CHL.

Yes I am critical of the CHL and the Chill. Let me give you my reasons why:

1) The league is on major life support, they have lost a countless number of franchises the past few years and have gained very few. The ones they have gained have been thrown into very poor markets where either there isn't enough demand or hockey hasn't worked before. Look at recent expansion Denver, Brampton, St. Charles. All have poor attendance, all are in markets where there is little to pick off the bone. I realize every league has their ailing teams from the NHL down, but about half the league is not sustainable long term.

2) The Chill were thrown together in a market where baseball is king, you said it yourself the Cardinals are the top draw in town. Also minor league hockey has failed at the Family Arena in the past, sometimes a market can do well on a second run at it but the Chill actually have LESS support than the Otters did in their final year(s).

3) Like I said all leagues have their poor markets. The ECHL is clinging onto Wheeling and others and has a lot of franchises in the Northeast. But fact is I don't focus on pointing that out because overall the league is fairly healthy, and they have had a lot of success with recent expansion. Orlando being one example. Of course they've had a few flops too (i.e. Chicago). But when they expand they try to place franchises that will succeed off the bat, again I point to Orlando and (although they aren't drawing well this year) San Francisco last year.

4) YES the Chill are in fact the transplanted Laredo Bucks franchise. No they did retain any history, players, or anything related to the Bucks. But let me point you to an article when the league first announced they were placing a franchise in town. http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journals/stcharles/news/st-charles-chill-hopes-to-heat-up-winters/article_6b666fda-2f02-565d-9f0e-38465ca11908.html

Care to read a direct quote from that article?

Instead of rushing a new team onto the ice for the 2012-13 season, Chill owners Gustavo Hernandez, Alfonso Arguindegui and Glenn Hart wanted to plant their flag in St. Charles a year in advance to reach out to the community. The trio owned the Laredo Bucks, who competed in the CHL until the end of last season. The Bucks' franchise rights were transferred to the Chill.

So no they are not actually expansion, the only real expansion franchise this year is Brampton.

Believe what you want sir. Be ignorant for all I care, but the signs of long term success for the Chill and the entire league are just not there! Yes I realize it takes time to build a fan base and no not every new team succeeds on the ice. But usually new teams have a hell of a lot more of a fan base in the beginning than the Chill have now!

Do I want them to fail? No, I would love nothing more than for them to succeed, and even make a go in the ECHL. Fact is that isn't what will happen most likely. The best thing for the St. Charles hockey community is Lindenwood's hockey program using the arena and moving its men's program to D1.

Like I said believe what you want about all of this. You don't have to agree with anything I've said but you have my reasons.

 

[Off da post and in]

...... sometimes a market can do well on a second run at it but the Chill actually have LESS support than the Otters did in their final year(s).

The best thing for the St. Charles hockey community is Lindenwood's hockey program using the arena and moving its men's program to D1.

It is difficult to compare what the Otters did 7 years ago to what the Chill are doing now. The economy was different and the societal landscape was too.

The pursuit of NCAA D1 status for the Men's hockey program at Lindenwood is much more difficult than you believe. What conference will they be a part of , because life as an independent is a nightmare. Ask someone associated with UAH if you don't believe me. Not to break your bubble, but the Lions won't draw enough either. How long have the Billikins played at Chesterfield and other venues without going D1? You need a league and a lot more than hope to be D1 .

Well, at least you made it clear as to why you'd like the Chill to fail, because there is no way a community that size can support both a pro and college team. (see Elmira's numbers for both the ECHL and NCAA D3 teams) I can respect that even though I'm ignorant.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Well I'm amused that you aren't aware of the fact that Steve Anthony, #16 on the Chill, IS ALSO A VANCOUVER prospect and they kept him with the Chill. Looks like they aren't worried about him being ruined by Rivers' St. Chucky.

Vancouver isn't worried about Steven Anthony being ruined - they don't give a rats ass about him. He's a 7th rounder in the third year of his ELC who didn't pan out. He's never played a full season in his pro career. His days as a Vancouver prospect are long behind him. He's a guy that Vancouver has under contract who they have to put somewhere. He's not good enough for the AHL, nor will he ever be. His value to the organization is zero - they would probably go outside the organization to fill a hole in Utica before calling him up. They're just happy to have him taking up space somewhere else until his contract expires.

 

[Off da post and in]

Vancouver isn't worried about Steven Anthony being ruined - they don't give a rats ass about him. He's a 7th rounder in the third year of his ELC who didn't pan out. He's never played a full season in his pro career. His days as a Vancouver prospect are long behind him. He's a guy that Vancouver has under contract who they have to put somewhere. He's not good enough for the AHL, nor will he ever be. His value to the organization is zero - they would probably go outside the organization to fill a hole in Utica before calling him up. They're just happy to have him taking up space somewhere else until his contract expires.

Darn, I actually agree with your assessment of the Chill's #16.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

1,418 last night!

So what's the excuse this time? Fox Sports Midwest was showing a Cardinals season recap?

{Mod}

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Topic's become nothing more than a gripe about the league/attendance watch topic, so shutting it down.