FA/Trade Thread 2014-2015 Season V.10

[mydnyte]

No I wouldn't trade Rielly. We need high end talent literally everywhere on this team so trading Rielly, JVR and Bernier for one of Mceichel isn't worth it so long as they are unproven. Don't see why we get rid of Bernier unless he refuses to sign here again. Remember how long it took us to find a good goalie after Eddie retired? Gibson is no guaranteed elite netminder.

generational talents dont usually fail, unproven or not, they would be the face of the franchise from the moment they were drafted

 

[theIceWookie]

Bolded. I agree. They are weakest down the middle and Horvat is playing well. Also, like you said, if you have players like Nylander down the middle, you need big physical guys on his wings. Speed and skill are great assets, but we also need size that can play in the top 6(9).

The thing about Virtanen is that not only is a nice addition of size and grit, he's also got the speed and skill you'd like to see in the top 6. Scoring 45 goals in your second season is quite the impressive feat. I'd love to add him to the prospect pool. I'd probably do JVR for Virtanen + in a heartbeat honestly.

 

[hockeywiz542]

TSN's Hockey Insiders discuss whether the Leafs will be sellers at the trade deadline.

http://www.tsn.ca/video/insider-trading-why-brodeur-chose-to-work-for-blues-over-devils-1.193163

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Draft position is only the starting point. Rielly was a top 5 draft pick, but he is not a top 5 player.

I'd say keep him, but if he was key to getting Johansen you think I'd hesitate? What if he was key to getting Duchene? What if the Coyotes wanted to rid themselves of OEL's contract and save a couple million for a few years?

All unlikely scenarios, but not impossible, that's why I'd say Rielly is available, he isn't a league elite talent but he'd cost quite a bit for the Leafs to consider moving.

You know the chance I would have taken, and it takes guts to be a proactive GM. One that is not living in fear of deals backfiring that they do nothing but sit and act patient. Is in the 2013 draft, when Monahan slid to 6th, if I were the Leafs GM I would have walked over to Burke and said you want Rielly? Let's swap for the 6th pick.

Now I like both Rielly and Monahan. But to me it is clear this team needs quality down the middle right now, as well as the entire roster. But a winning 2 way Center with size. Count me in at Rielly's price. Would be interesting considering how much we know Burke covets Rielly.

This is the chance taking this Mgt team needs to consider. Any team that gets either of these players will not lose, but from a fit persepective it may be better for both. How would the Leafs look with Monahan today?

 

[thewave]

TSN's Hockey Insiders discuss whether the Leafs will be sellers at the trade deadline.

http://www.tsn.ca/video/insider-trading-why-brodeur-chose-to-work-for-blues-over-devils-1.193163

I think they will make 1 large trade mostly for cap and another for change then say a lot of what was out there didn't make sense.

Dave Nonis fav goto statement.

 

[Mckay]

It's insane how the trade deadline is still over 1 month away and the trade talk seems to be fever pitch. I do it to myself.. checking twitter constantly.. checking here.. listening to tsn1050 and sportsnet590 all day.....I don't know if I can take 4+ weeks of this.

 

[The CyNick]

The logic is that Santorelli isn't going to be much better then he is. A solid top 9 versatile player.

Rielly is a RFA for quite a few years and with a lot of untapped potential. It's not really comparable.

Santorelli was a great bargain bin find, just like Raymond was, but he'll want to cash in on that success. I just don't think we're in a position to give him a long-ish term deal while we transition the core to something else.

Again, I like Santorelli and I wouldn't even be slightly upset if he's re-signed to a great deal but I think trading him while his value is at an all time high would be smarter. We need to get younger in the process and I'm sure we can find someone similar again in the upcoming off-season if there's a hole.

I generally feel this should be the strategy we use to gain assets. Sign cheap guys who have been squeezed out at free agency. trade for a pick. Rinse repeat.

Only thing i would say against that is if we are trying a real rebuild its good to have a couple vets who play a workhorse style game to set an example.

 

[Maplebeasts]

You know the chance I would have taken, and it takes guts to be a proactive GM. One that is not living in fear of deals backfiring that they do nothing but sit and act patient. Is in the 2013 draft, when Monahan slid to 6th, if I were the Leafs GM I would have walked over to Burke and said you want Rielly? Let's swap for the 6th pick.

Now I like both Rielly and Monahan. But to me it is clear this team needs quality down the middle right now, as well as the entire roster. But a winning 2 way Center with size. Count me in at Rielly's price. Would be interesting considering how much we know Burke covets Rielly.

This is the chance taking this Mgt team needs to consider. Any team that gets either of these players will not lose, but from a fit persepective it may be better for both. How would the Leafs look with Monahan today?

Well seeing as he's a year younger and hasn't proven more than Rielly, the Leafs would still be spinning their wheels. You also have to consider that if we remove Rielly from our organization, we have no one who has the potential to anchor the blueline in the future. (Percy does not have elite potential).

 

[Antropovsky]

Stamkos is elite, not a normal player, doesn't belong in journeymen player discussions. These guys don't price themselves off your team, their teammates do. There is a max category for these guys, a league mandated max.

But really, term is the issue.

And Stamkos does it every year, same as Crosby, a better example would be what if Vorachek as for 12 million for 8 years? He is the leading scorer on the Flyers and the league. What if he asks for 12 million for 5 years? 8 million for 7?

Even Toews and Kane's contracts regress over term.

I see your point, and clearly by your new example (voracek), you saw mine too.

Still the point is that I said we should resign Santorelli and Winnik.... in any player (outside of franchise players as noted ULF)... the money is going to matter. So it's ridiculous for Dave to throw out numbers and say YIKES afterwards.

 

[Maplebeasts]

generational talents dont usually fail, unproven or not, they would be the face of the franchise from the moment they were drafted

It would be hard to give up one close to elite piece in JVR and two possible elite pieces in Rielly and Bernier, all three being young for one of Mceichel. Generational talents don't fail often but they can still bust. Just ask Alexandre Daigle.

 

[theIceWookie]

You know the chance I would have taken, and it takes guts to be a proactive GM. One that is not living in fear of deals backfiring that they do nothing but sit and act patient. Is in the 2013 draft, when Monahan slid to 6th, if I were the Leafs GM I would have walked over to Burke and said you want Rielly? Let's swap for the 6th pick.

Now I like both Rielly and Monahan. But to me it is clear this team needs quality down the middle right now, as well as the entire roster. But a winning 2 way Center with size. Count me in at Rielly's price. Would be interesting considering how much we know Burke covets Rielly.

This is the chance taking this Mgt team needs to consider. Any team that gets either of these players will not lose, but from a fit persepective it may be better for both. How would the Leafs look with Monahan today?

It's a pretty pointless argument to make. You wanna make up fantasies, go ahead, but the Flames weren't gonna make that deal. They turned down trading it for Seguin (albeit along with Gaudreau) but that should give you an idea of how immovable it was.

So a pointless bit of perspective. Complete fantasy honestly.

 

[Antropovsky]

It's well documented that Winnik outpriced his stay with Anaheim, San Jose and Colorado. Anaheim (a cup contender) decided that they would rather go with youth then re-sign Winnik... that says a lot.

You can do your research if you don't believe me. I'm going from memory and I'm confident with my information.

.... I'm not going to bother, because I know that even if he did, it's not as black and white as you think it is. There are variables that play in peoples decision making, more than just money. Location matters too. Maybe Winnik didn't like playing in California? Maybe for it to be worth staying, he wanted to be paid a certain amount? As a Toronto native, he's always wanted to be back home? Maybe he didn't like coaches.... etc etc.

Besides I suggested we try to keep him, I didn't say KEEP HIM AT ALL COSTS as your response to my initial post would suggest.

It's just not as black and white as you think.

 

[613Leafer]

You know the chance I would have taken, and it takes guts to be a proactive GM. One that is not living in fear of deals backfiring that they do nothing but sit and act patient. Is in the 2013 draft, when Monahan slid to 6th, if I were the Leafs GM I would have walked over to Burke and said you want Rielly? Let's swap for the 6th pick.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1445191&highlight=rielly+lindholm

Look at this poll, would you trade Gardiner for the pick to get Monahan. 199 NO votes to 64 YES votes.

Not even talking about whether that trade was realistic or not, but interesting to see how many Leaf fans were ADAMANTLY against it. Shows how much the fanbase can overvalue our own young assets IMO. I wouldn't propose us trading young assets for older assets, but I don't see why anyone would be deadset against youth for youth. That type of mindset means we wouldn't have made the L.Schenn for JVR trade, which worked out great for us.

Similar discussions of using 21st OA + Franson to trade up in the draft were discussed, with that idea crapped on by most fans. Rielly traded to get one of Barkov/Lindholm as well, similarly crapped on.

 

[realgoodleafs]

Santorelli is this years MacArthur/Raymond. A good "buy low" option whose value we've pumped up.

Now we should sell high on him, and then sign another 3-4 "buy low" options in the offseason. There's no reason to think we couldn't find another similar player yet again after doing it three times in a row, and this time we can actually get value for the player instead of losing him for nothing.

The Leafs should be doing this every year. Pick up a 3rd/4th liner and overplay him and then flip at the deadline.

 

[timlap]

It would be hard to give up one close to elite piece in JVR and two possible elite pieces in Rielly and Bernier, all three being young for one of Mceichel. Generational talents don't fail often but they can still bust. Just ask Alexandre Daigle.

There were many doubters when it came to Daigle, not that he would fizzle out the way he did, but that he would be at best a player at the level of Roenick, say, and not a generational talent.

McDavid is in a different category. I would trade a lot to get him, but it's moot. No team is going to trade him away.

 

[timlap]

The Leafs should be doing this every year. Pick up a 3rd/4th liner and overplay him and then flip at the deadline.

You have to be careful with this. These guys are human beings, not cattle, and if players get the sense you're just going to trade them then it makes it less likely they'll want to sign here. That's why it's important to get some sense of how Santorelli and Winnik feel about things. An underrated thing is the ability to foster good relationships with players, agents, other GMs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There were many doubters when it came to Daigle, not that he would fizzle out the way he did, but that he would be at best a player at the level of Roenick, say, and not a generational talent.

McDavid is in a different category. I would trade a lot to get him, but it's moot. No team is going to trade him away.

Spot on. I don't remember Daigle regarded anywhere near as highly as McDavid. He will not be traded, period.

 

[613Leafer]

You have to be careful with this. These guys are human beings, not cattle, and if players get the sense you're just going to trade them then it makes it less likely they'll want to sign here. That's why it's important to get some sense of how Santorelli and Winnik feel about things. An underrated thing is the ability to foster good relationships with players, agents, other GMs.

Not if you get the reputation for taking on underrated players/reclamation projects, boosting their value for a year, sending them to a contender, and then having them earn 3+ year contracts afterwards in free agency because of the opportunity they got here.

Do you think MacArthur or Raymond regret coming here? They both bounced back and made big money afterwards.

 

[p.l.f.]

Everybody wants Santorelli
I get a feeling he'll want over 4 mil per
Bolland Grabo Kulemin gpt 5 per so....

Asking price is no lower than a 2nd rounder

 

[Hunter74]

So do you trade Franson now before others realize that Phaneuf has been the reason for his improved play or do you believe Franson holds his own and you hold out on a trade a little longer hoping the offers get better.

Either Franson proves doubters wrong with Dion out of the lineup and his price goes up or he proves them wrong and his price goes down. Thats if his value will even change because of his play over the next couple weeks.

 

[613Leafer]

So do you trade Franson now before others realize that Phaneuf has been the reason for his improved play or do you believe Franson holds his own and you hold out on a trade a little longer hoping the offers get better.

Either Franson proves doubters wrong with Dion out of the lineup and his price goes up or he proves them wrong and his price goes down. Thats if his value will even change because of his play over the next couple weeks.

I don't think his value has much room to improve, plenty of potential for it to go down or for him to get injured.

I'd be looking to trade him sooner rather than later.

 

[Budsfan]

I wonder what they were offering maybe....

Darren DregerVerified account ‏@DarrenDreger
Penguins also made an offer last week on Winnik. Leafs aren't ready to move him...yet. #BelLetsTalk

Trade: Penguins Send Goc To The Blues For Lapierre

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/01/27/trade-penguins-send-goc-to-the-blues-for-lapierre/

 

[roosterman]

decent idea, but it gets me thinking... if we were to swing a deal with the Ducks and snag Gibson, and then come the draft we dangle

JVR + Rielly + Bernier ...would either of the Oilers or Buffalo be able to refuse?

They both have high end Center prospects already, and that package would perhaps be too sweet to refuse.
they each get their #1 goalie, top pairing offensive D-man, and a top line Winger

If we got Gibson I would definitely do this package for McDavid. I would even add to it if we had to. I suspect Buffalo and Edmonton would not do it though. They wouldn't want to be know as the guy who traded away a generational talent even though the pieces are likely acceptable. I personally would do it in a heart beat even though we are trading some great players.

 

[ChuckWoods]

I wonder what they were offering.

Darren DregerVerified account ‏@DarrenDreger
Penguins also made an offer last week on Winnik. Leafs aren't ready to move him...yet. #BelLetsTalk

I mentioned this yesterday, youre going to see a lot of interest in Winnik, Santorelli and Booth from this point forward, but the return will reach its highest come the deadline on these guys.

Theyre all solid locker room presences with good work ethic that is a benefit to be exposed to our young players on this squad. Having them continue to be a positive locker room presence in an unsure environment is a positive thing.

Zero rush to move these assets unless they get what they WANT out of these assets.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1445191&highlight=rielly+lindholm

Look at this poll, would you trade Gardiner for the pick to get Monahan. 199 NO votes to 64 YES votes.

Not even talking about whether that trade was realistic or not, but interesting to see how many Leaf fans were ADAMANTLY against it. Shows how much the fanbase can overvalue our own young assets IMO. I wouldn't propose us trading young assets for older assets, but I don't see why anyone would be deadset against youth for youth. That type of mindset means we wouldn't have made the L.Schenn for JVR trade, which worked out great for us.

Similar discussions of using 21st OA + Franson to trade up in the draft were discussed, with that idea crapped on by most fans. Rielly traded to get one of Barkov/Lindholm as well, similarly crapped on.

Thanks for that. It is telling how this fanbase, overvalues their own players.

This is the only fanbase that loves mediocrity from what I see. I was on Boston's board just a few weeks ago, and they were livid with their team.

All players were discussed as trade possibilities. I don't understand this fanbase. Maybe some have never seen good hockey before, I don't know. Not trading Gardiner for Monahan. That is insane, one wonders why even make trade proposals here. If people think Santorelli and a bag of pucks will get us Johansen.

You have to deal quality, if you want quality back. You have to take chances. If Monahan was in the 2012 draft. I would venture to say he would have gone before Galchenyuk and Rielly. He's that good.