FA/Trade Thread 2014-2015 Season V.10

[namttebih]

I've always. Been of the mind of keeping. JVR but honestly I'm starting they should move him too

His value is great but it's almost inflated because of his contract

If he was able to play constantly, killer instinct he'd easily be a keeper and worth what he'll probably. Want next

I think that JVR could bring it to another level if he plays with a talented centre with a good work ethic.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

These next few games should be fun as it'll show a lot of things that needs to be rectified

 

[Cor]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 3m3 minutes ago
Penguins also made an offer last week on Winnik. Leafs aren't ready to move him...yet. #BelLetsTalk

 

[SprDaVE]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 3m3 minutes ago
Penguins also made an offer last week on Winnik. Leafs aren't ready to move him...yet. #BelLetsTalk

Gotta keep the dream alive, right?

Probably was for a mid round pick of some kind.

 

[jmart21]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 3m3 minutes ago
Penguins also made an offer last week on Winnik. Leafs aren't ready to move him...yet. #BelLetsTalk

Gotta keep the dream alive, right?

Probably was for a mid round pick of some kind.

Can't see why they'd do it now. Winnik is a classic example of a guy who will be worth more close to the deadline than he is 5wks before.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Can we trade Reimer for Hutton + and snag one of the Preds spects/picks in the process.

I'd do it. I'd even go Reimer + prospect for Hutton + better prospect. As long as it's one of their better prospects that are worth at least a 2nd round pick.

 

[ULF_55]

You only see things in black and white. There's no middle ground and you can't comprehend a world where positives actually exist in bad situations (they can). I'll make this as simple for you as I possible can.

You don't burn the whole tree because it's not bearing fruit, that would idiotic. You look at the tree and realize that some branches are actually counter-productive to the tree. You also see that while some might not be producing fruit that's amazing, their is still some significant potential for those branches to do so in the right conditions. Then you step back grab your cutters and you go to work. And going to work doesn't mean cutting all the branches off. It means cutting only some off. Leaving a tree with no branches doesn't get you fruit. But cutting off some and leaving others still will.

Starting a retool and burning a 20 year old off the tree is among the most idiotic things you can do. Especially one who is TWO SEASONS REMOVED FROM BEING DRAFTED IN THE TOP 5. Holy s*** that's among the stupider things you've ever suggested.

When you're building something and you run into a problem, you don't tear the entire building down and start from scratch. That would be an enormous waste of time, and perfectly good parts of the building. No, you take the parts down that are built wrong, and continue to build on the perfectly good portions.

What you're advocating for is basically like saying "oh no I stumbled during the race, I should probably start the entire race all over again".

Doesn't it depend on the tree? Suppose you planted a crab apple and it is a pear orchard?

And it would depend on where the fault is when you're building something.

Sometimes you do tear it all down if your original plan was faulty and your foundation is flawed. All rebuilding upon a flawed foundation is going to do is use good money after bad.


Regardless, it always depends upon the return. Don't fall in love with the player, and we aren't talking a MacKinnon here, however we also aren't talking the problem with the team. Rielly's a 2nd./3rd. pairing, 20 year old defender. He could be part of the solution in the future, right now he's just along for the ride. He looks like a kid player a man's game, which is to be expected he's a kid playing a man's game.
Perhaps he's being held back by inept leadership on the team, Landeskog in Colorado went in a played like a man, so much so they made him captain but perhaps he wasn't held back by anyone there, or he's just a special player?


Oh, and let's keep the discussions on topic and not about posters.

 

[bobbyflex]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 3m3 minutes ago
Penguins also made an offer last week on Winnik. Leafs aren't ready to move him...yet. #BelLetsTalk

that sucks. Winnik is one of the few players i actually like on this team

 

[ULF_55]

I think that JVR could bring it to another level if he plays with a talented centre with a good work ethic.

That's a problem then. Means he isn't a driving force, but another follower.

See everyone wants to point at someone and say if only he was better I'd be getting more points. Means they aren't a player to drive a line.

If only I was on Kessel's line ... support player.
If only Bozak was a 1st. line center ... yes, get over it. There are no 1st. line centers or they'd be carrying a line not needing to be on a line with the one true 1st. line player on the team, Kessel.

 

[Antropovsky]

Santorelli, Winnik, Komarov are three players we definitely should not be trading. These are the players we should keep and surround our youth with. Obviously this is if Winnik is willing to resign.

 

[SprDaVE]

Santorelli, Winnik, Komarov are three players we definitely should not be trading. These are the players we should keep and surround our youth with.

Riiiiiight...

What if Winnik is asking for 3M over long-term and Santorelli 4M long-term?

Yikes.

I'm not against re-signing them if they are great deals but the Leafs need to gain as many picks as possible at this dead line and promote youth. They need to gut this team and restock the cupboards. Santorelli and Winnik aren't making us better now and that won't change next season. Why waste our time? We are bad with a capped out team and it's not going to get better while they are here.

Just trade them. You can find those kind of players all the time in free agency anyway.

 

[RLF]

A lot of discussion on JVR, although I think all things considered (skill,contract,etc) we should keep him.

Would anyone do

To Van
JVR, McWilliam

To Tor
Kassian, Virtanen, 2015 1st

 

[mydnyte]

Due to Dions health, my moneys on Franson being the first shipped out. Look towards Colorado, Dallas or Anaheim as his potential destinations in the coming week(s).

...wonder if the Leafs would be smart enough to try to land Gibson in a deal there, and really solidify the goaltending, and perhaps turn Bernier into a bargaining chip.
(though I have pondered this before knowing there was real potential to a ducks deal)

I can really see Gibson as being better a better goalie than Bernier long term. ...not to mention the potential cap savings

 

[SprDaVE]

...wonder if the Leafs would be smart enough to try to land Gibson in a deal there, and really solidify the goaltending, and perhaps turn Bernier into a bargaining chip.
(though I have pondered this before knowing there was real potential to a ducks deal)

I can really see Gibson as being better a better goalie than Bernier long term. ...not to mention the potential cap savings

I'd rather focus on other parts of our cupboards. I think our goaltending depth right now is in a good place. Bernier should be here for a long time, Gibson and Bibeau have showed a lot of promise and Sparks, despite battling a lot of injuries, should also be a decent option once healthy. Gibson is a great prospect though, I don't disagree.

If the Ducks are a team focused in getting Franson, they have a lot of pieces that I'd much prefer to get. Shea Theodore would be so great to be able to get in this trade. With their defensive depth (especially after getting Franson), I think the Ducks could be willing to part with a top defensive prospect like Theodore for the right deal.

 

[ULF_55]

Riiiiiight...

What if Winnik is asking for 3M over long-term and Santorelli 4M long-term?

Yikes.

I'm not against re-signing them if they are great deals but the Leafs need to gain as many picks as possible at this dead line and promote youth. They need to gut this team and restock the cupboards. Santorelli and Winnik aren't making us better now and that won't change next season. Why waste our time? We are bad with a capped out team and it's not going to get better while they are here.

Just trade them. You can find those kind of players all the time in free agency anyway.

Additionally, they are playing for a contract after being left out in the cold in the summer.

So, do you really want to lock up 30 year old journeymen players to long term contracts when they're fighting for their careers? Why aren't they already under a long term contract, unless we're seeing desperation today that won't be there when they're home and cooled out with a 3 year deal they don't have to work hard to keep?

They are both going to be 30 years old this year, maybe if you can get a reasonable 2 year contract signed by them, but I'd rather see if the Leafs have any competence at the draft and give their prospects the opportunity.

 

[SprDaVE]

Additionally, they are playing for a contract after being left out in the cold in the summer.

So, do you really want to lock up 30 year old journeymen players to long term contracts when they're fighting for their careers? Why aren't they already under a long term contract, unless we're seeing desperation today that won't be there when they're home and cooled out with a 3 year deal they don't have to work hard to keep?

They are both going to be 30 years old this year, maybe if you can get a reasonable 2 year contract signed by them, but I'd rather see if the Leafs have any competence at the draft and give their prospects the opportunity.

The fascination with 2-way journeymen players is just oustanding sometimes with this fan base.

We can't like our elite offensive player but we love players that can barely put up 40 points. We then re-sign those players for a few years and then they become bad... I wonder why.

Just trade them to the highest bidders, unless they sign for dirt dirt cheap --- which won't happen anyway.

Just gut the team as much as possible, then call up Leivo to play in a top 9 role and then career AHLers like Ashton, Frattin and/or Abbott to round it out. It really can't be any worst then it is now.

 

[theIceWookie]

i have to say. as someone who loves anaologies.
that was a pretty damned good one. and I very much agree.

regarding Rielly -
I'm not comparing him to Duncan Keith -but Duncan Keith at 20 didn't look like Duncan Keith now. it took him a very, very long time to become Duncan Keith. I personally think -it would be very... disadvantageous to move him now, simply because he doesn't "Look" elite right now.

Thank you. I don't think (which contrary to the way an particular poster is trying to frame it) I've ever said the team doesn't have issues. It clearly does and we clearly need to change things up drastically. That doesn't mean you need to burn the entire tree down. That's not going to be productive, and I'm of the opinion that when teams do this (sometimes it is necessary though, however I don't think this is the case here) it is actually a situation that is much easier to go horribly wrong than right. Look at the Oilers as a prime example. Some would say they are the exception, I would say they are closer to the norm for the scorched earth rebuild.

You just don't trade 20 year old top 5 players simply because in their sophomore season they don't look perfect. Look at Hedman, didn't exactly start of perfectly but has slowly turned into a dominant player. Under the right deal, sure, but the right deal would be something like Rielly for OEL.

Trading away some good young pieces like Kadri/Rielly/Bernier doesn't make sense to the future of this team. You're just putting yourself even further behind teh 8 ball.

 

[mydnyte]

Santorelli, Winnik, Komarov are three players we definitely should not be trading. These are the players we should keep and surround our youth with. Obviously this is if Winnik is willing to resign.

Komarov you keep because he's signed long term... the others were brought in on 1 year deals for a few reasons, one of which being, if we're out of the playoffs, they are cheap and pending UFA's, thus major deadline trade bait, and that is how they should be used.

Next year a new slew of cheap and almost identical players will be available once more ...this is how you work a team, if you are filling the bottom 6 with UFA's rather than your home grown youth!! ...we didnt do it properly with Macarthur, and Raymond, and got back squat, and it's not like either is setting the world on fire since... they both should have been dealt.

sign em cheap and short, build up some value, trade them off for futures, repeat.

shame he's played really poorly, as Booth was another in the same boat, but likely nobody will want him, save for a really late pick, or a low end or real longshot prospect.

 

[SprDaVE]

Komarov you keep because he's signed long term... the others were brought in on 1 year deals for a few reasons, one of which being, if we're out of the playoffs, they are cheap and pending UFA's, thus major deadline trade bait, and that is how they should be used.

Next year a new slew of cheap and almost identical players will be available once more ...this is how you work a team, if you are filling the bottom 6 with UFA's rather than your home grown youth!! ...we didnt do it properly with Macarthur, and Raymond, and got back squat, and it's not like either is setting the world on fire since... they both should have been dealt.

sign em cheap and short, build up some value, trade them off for futures, repeat.

shame he's played really poorly, as Booth was another in the same boat, but likely nobody will want him, save for a really late pick, or a low end or real longshot prospect.

Booth can still fetch probably a 6th rounder. There's always a team that will want speed on the fourth line and decent depth. I'll take anything for a 1 year player though... anything.

 

[pspot]

wonder if dallas would do something like Franson and Santorelli for Horcroff, Dickenson and Oleksiak

Dallas pays the price of two prospects but leafs give cap relief to let them be able to resign Franson who will be of a similar cap hit to horcroff

 

[RLF]

Thank you. I don't think (which contrary to the way an particular poster is trying to frame it) I've ever said the team doesn't have issues. It clearly does and we clearly need to change things up drastically. That doesn't mean you need to burn the entire tree down. That's not going to be productive, and I'm of the opinion that when teams do this (sometimes it is necessary though, however I don't think this is the case here) it is actually a situation that is much easier to go horribly wrong than right. Look at the Oilers as a prime example. Some would say they are the exception, I would say they are closer to the norm for the scorched earth rebuild.

You just don't trade 20 year old top 5 players simply because in their sophomore season they don't look perfect. Look at Hedman, didn't exactly start of perfectly but has slowly turned into a dominant player. Under the right deal, sure, but the right deal would be something like Rielly for OEL.

Trading away some good young pieces like Kadri/Rielly/Bernier doesn't make sense to the future of this team. You're just putting yourself even further behind teh 8 ball.

This will shock you...I agree with pretty much everything you said.haha

 

[RLF]

wonder if dallas would do something like Franson and Santorelli for Horcroff, Dickenson and Oleksiak

Dallas pays the price of two prospects but leafs give cap relief to let them be able to resign Franson who will be of a similar cap hit to horcroff

Value is pretty fair. imo Horcoff is UFA at end of season as well IIRC. So, it would only be a little relief on this season and wouldn't create extra cap space next year.

 

[mydnyte]

I'd rather focus on other parts of our cupboards. I think our goaltending depth right now is in a good place. Bernier should be here for a long time, Gibson and Bibeau have showed a lot of promise and Sparks, despite battling a lot of injuries, should also be a decent option once healthy. Gibson is a great prospect though, I don't disagree.

If the Ducks are a team focused in getting Franson, they have a lot of pieces that I'd much prefer to get. Shea Theodore would be so great to be able to get in this trade. With their defensive depth (especially after getting Franson), I think the Ducks could be willing to part with a top defensive prospect like Theodore for the right deal.

I'd try to snag any prospect that has potential Star talent...if Gibson projects better than Bernier, then that would surely be Star talent.
Having more depth is better.

...we had Rask, and JFJ thought <will not say his name> was the better of the 2 goalies because he had a good World JR tourney. We had an excess, and the GM used one asset that he deemed either inferior, or longer to develop to get immediate help

My hope is Gibson can be our Rask, and Bernier should bring in at least as much as Schnieder did, and should get more than only a 1st. (from a playoff team with questionable goaltending)

 

[Antropovsky]

Riiiiiight...

What if Winnik is asking for 3M over long-term and Santorelli 4M long-term?

Yikes.

I'm not against re-signing them if they are great deals but the Leafs need to gain as many picks as possible at this dead line and promote youth. They need to gut this team and restock the cupboards. Santorelli and Winnik aren't making us better now and that won't change next season. Why waste our time? We are bad with a capped out team and it's not going to get better while they are here.

Just trade them. You can find those kind of players all the time in free agency anyway.

...... lol you could make this comment about any player. Of course, with any player, including Crosby, if they price themselves off your team, then you don't keep them... If their price tag reflects what they are worth, then I suggest we keep them.

Your comment would be equivalent to a Lightning fan saying, I suggest we keep Stamkos. Then another poster comes and responds and says, WHAT IF HE ASKS FOR 15 MILLION PER YEAR! YIKES!

 

[ULF_55]

Thank you. I don't think (which contrary to the way an particular poster is trying to frame it) I've ever said the team doesn't have issues. It clearly does and we clearly need to change things up drastically. That doesn't mean you need to burn the entire tree down. That's not going to be productive, and I'm of the opinion that when teams do this (sometimes it is necessary though, however I don't think this is the case here) it is actually a situation that is much easier to go horribly wrong than right. Look at the Oilers as a prime example. Some would say they are the exception, I would say they are closer to the norm for the scorched earth rebuild.

You just don't trade 20 year old top 5 players simply because in their sophomore season they don't look perfect. Look at Hedman, didn't exactly start of perfectly but has slowly turned into a dominant player. Under the right deal, sure, but the right deal would be something like Rielly for OEL.

Trading away some good young pieces like Kadri/Rielly/Bernier doesn't make sense to the future of this team. You're just putting yourself even further behind teh 8 ball.

Draft position is only the starting point. Rielly was a top 5 draft pick, but he is not a top 5 player.

I'd say keep him, but if he was key to getting Johansen you think I'd hesitate? What if he was key to getting Duchene? What if the Coyotes wanted to rid themselves of OEL's contract and save a couple million for a few years?

All unlikely scenarios, but not impossible, that's why I'd say Rielly is available, he isn't a league elite talent but he'd cost quite a bit for the Leafs to consider moving.