Euro: Euro 2020/21 Discussion

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Oh, the hype was there before the WC, but that goal propelled Gotze's expectations and put home on the radar of more people around the footballing world.... I don't think that is too farfetched to say.

You said that he was touted as the next superstar just because of that goal. That's just not how it was. He was called one of Germany's most talented players ever, a once a century type talent, had gushing profiles written in leading publications etc. Here's some examples:

50 Best Soccer Players of 2011

Tim Howard and 10 World-Class Players on Middling Teams

Mario Götze: Germany's next superstar | DW | 10.08.2011

Gotze is our Messi - Beckenbauer

All of that is from 2011. No argument that he was overhyped, but the overhyping came well before that 2014 World Cup. What that goal in the World Cup did was it covered up somewhat for the fact that his career from 2012 onward did not develop the way it was supposed to and it ensures a place for Mario Gotze in the public imagination that his overall career would not quite justify.

 

[cgf]

You said that he was touted as the next superstar just because of that goal. That's just not how it was. He was called one of Germany's most talented players ever, a once a century type talent, had gushing profiles written in leading publications etc. Here's some examples:

50 Best Soccer Players of 2011

Tim Howard and 10 World-Class Players on Middling Teams

Mario Götze: Germany's next superstar | DW | 10.08.2011

Gotze is our Messi - Beckenbauer

All of that is from 2011. No argument that he was overhyped, but the overhyping came well before that 2014 World Cup. What that goal in the World Cup did was it covered up somewhat for the fact that his career from 2012 onward did not develop the way it was supposed to and it ensures a place for Mario Gotze in the public imagination that his overall career would not quite justify.

I think there's a difference between Mario's hype in germany...which peaked before his move to Bayern...and his hype abroad, which I can see an argument for peaking with that goal.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I think there's a difference between Mario's hype in germany...which peaked before his move to Bayern...and his hype abroad, which I can see an argument for peaking with that goal.

I think there were people who likely heard Gotze's name the first time he scored that goal. But that group of people should not include anyone following the sport in a serious way, so naturally not scouts or personnel guys on major teams. Three of those articles I linked to were from non-German sources. He was connected to Arsenal in 2011, and before Bayern picked him up, interest from other top level clubs was rumored as well.

People keeping track of BuLi football and top European young players were expecting greatness from Gotze long before that shot hit the back of the Argentinian net.

 

[Live in the Now]

He was overhyped but football has changed a lot in the last ten years. Now if you have no physical game? You can't even play at a good level. We've come to have a technical and physical game where some amount of both is required to be successful. He has had health problems but I haven't seen anyone with his lack of physical capability anywhere near the top level anytime recently. And especially there's no need for #10's anymore.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Physically in what sense? I can think of many small players still able to be great.

 

[Live in the Now]

Physically in what sense? I can think of many small players still able to be great.

Those small players have super strength holding the ball, or they can dance through defenders with ease. Like Verratti, that guy is a tank. I don’t think Gotze ever had that.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Those small players have super strength holding the ball, or they can dance through defenders with ease. Like Verratti, that guy is a tank. I don’t think Gotze ever had that.

Well ya he needs to find his strength so he doesn’t really need to be physical. Just be quick or smarter than the defender. Sadly for him he wasn’t fast, strong, savvy and he was a poor finisher. Not surprised he didn’t make it.

 

[cgf]

Those small players have super strength holding the ball, or they can dance through defenders with ease. Like Verratti, that guy is a tank. I don’t think Gotze ever had that.

He was very quick & agile before his body started falling apart. He wasn’t ever powerful or the fastest in a straight line, but his quickness & acceleration were once excellent.

That was a big part of what made him so comfortable in Klopp’s heavy-metal football. He was never the speed demon that Reus was, but he could glide through crowds of defenders in transition without losing speed.

 

[cgf]

I think there were people who likely heard Gotze's name the first time he scored that goal. But that group of people should not include anyone following the sport in a serious way, so naturally not scouts or personnel guys on major teams. Three of those articles I linked to were from non-German sources. He was connected to Arsenal in 2011, and before Bayern picked him up, interest from other top level clubs was rumored as well.

People keeping track of BuLi football and top European young players were expecting greatness from Gotze long before that shot hit the back of the Argentinian net.

I don’t disagree, but a lot of football fans don’t pay attention to the BuLi...and almost as many players are linked to arsenal.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

He was overhyped but football has changed a lot in the last ten years. Now if you have no physical game? You can't even play at a good level. We've come to have a technical and physical game where some amount of both is required to be successful. He has had health problems but I haven't seen anyone with his lack of physical capability anywhere near the top level anytime recently. And especially there's no need for #10's anymore.

That could have and was written almost word for word in like 1985 as well. People saying the world couldn't see another Cruyff and the future belonging to the Hans-Peter Briegels (who was considered a monster at the time) of the world.

I think Gotze's problem was more related to conditioning than sheer size. As a youngster at 19 he was pretty quick and agile but they also kept his minutes under control. He may not have had the physique to face the burden of a current day footballer at that level i.e. playing 50 games a year, but I don't think that was size-related.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This will be a bigger sport than baseball here in about 10-15 years.

And basketball. Both are declining in viewership. NFL will be hard to beat, but it’s not impossible over a 20-30 year span.

 

[member 305909]

I remember how they said the same thing already at the time of the 1994 WC in the USA.

 

[Suiteness]

Ban Italy from all international football competitions.

 

[Incubajerks]

Ban Italy from all international football competitions.

 

[Evilo]

Ban Italy from all international football competitions.

I did think it was weird Keane was left off.
But I would consider Emerson as "man of color" .
They did have 2 Brazilians on their squad.

 

[cgf]

And basketball. Both are declining in viewership. NFL will be hard to beat, but it’s not impossible over a 20-30 year span.

Basketball only declined because of the pandemic. Before the lockdown it was as big as it had ever been & growing.

The NBA has the best commissioner in NA sports, athletes that connect with gen Zers than other NA sports, & getting NY excited about basketball again will be huge once things get back to normal...assuming that the Knicks don't go back to s***

 

[robertmac43]

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

What kind of racist would you need to be for that to be the 'most striking' thing about the Italian team to you.

 

[Evilo]

Yes and no.
I really didn't think about it until I heard Keane wasn't selected.
He was not a lock for that team but when you saw the selected strikers, it did feel weird.
But then again Emerson.

 

[Suiteness]

What kind of racist would you need to be for that to be the 'most striking' thing about the Italian team to you.

I also had a look at Argentina's Copa America Winning squad, that crew was whiter than a rural Georgia country club in the 1930's.

Love Leo but yeah, vacate title and ban.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I think the economist is pretty trash tbh

 

[Incubajerks]

Yes and no.
I really didn't think about it until I heard Keane wasn't selected.
He was not a lock for that team but when you saw the selected strikers, it did feel weird.
But then again Emerson.

Kean was not called up because he never adapted to Mancini's game system, but above all he was not called up because in the friendly against San Marino he showed everyone how listless he can be on the pitch. Mancini has decided to bring (and then leave at home) Politano because he is a more functional player than Kean. If he wants to be part of this group, which seems to me to be an important group, he has to change his mentality because everyone knows he has big behavioral problems.
The Economist article made me smile because it is chock full of glaring inaccuracies.

 

[ItsFineImFine]

Very naive to say things like there's no room for racism etc in society or football when you're talking about social media abuse. Social media is a cesspool, it can't and shouldn't be censored. Just stay away from it if you're a player. Now if he's getting racially abused on the pitch by say a ref or another player then that's something we need to be serious about. But I laugh when I say stuff like the whole say no to racism slogans.

You can't fix racism through slogans or twitter censorship. The people that are racists are mostly a lost cause. Football associations and teams and players can work with the education system, it can only be fixed by showing that it's wrong from an early age.

And England has no more of a racism problem than most of these other countries in fact visible minority tourists I think feel more comfortable going to say a Manchester City/Chelsea/Liverpool/ManU/Arsenal game than they probably do for bigger clubs on continental Europe. The Premier League has done a good job of making it a family-friendly environment.

What England has is a general alcoholism problem and rowdiness with alcoholics when they gather such as on big match days but this is an issue with society at large.

 

[The Examiner]

Yes and no.
I really didn't think about it until I heard Keane wasn't selected.
He was not a lock for that team but when you saw the selected strikers, it did feel weird.
But then again Emerson.

Everton: Mancini confirms Kean omitted from Italy squad as punishment

 

[member 305909]

I think the economist is pretty trash tbh

If the world turned into a kind of place the Economist wishes it would it would be a dystopia.