Proposal: Erik Karlsson for Bo Horvat

[Scott Stevens]

Horvat is not on the same planet as MATTHEWS. Get real.

Horvat is average.

Nobody is comparing the two. Use your brain.

 

[sirwilliam]

Threads like this remind me that most people don't watch the Canucks play. "Horvat is basically Kesler." How exactly? They are nothing alike.

Responding to OP, Karlsson >> Horvat for value, but Vancouver should not make that trade.

 

[34]

Nobody is comparing the two. Use your brain.

Toronto = Playoffs

Vancouver = basement garbage

Use your brain.

I don’t give a shit about Vancouver, in fact I hate them with a passion. I no longer care to continue any conversation about them or you pissing on the Leafs. Ignored

 

[Scott Stevens]

Toronto = Playoffs

Vancouver = basement garbage

Use your brain.

I don’t give a **** about Vancouver, in fact I hate them with a passion. I no longer care to continue any conversation about them or you pissing on the Leafs. Ignored

You are mentally ill.

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

Toronto = Playoffs

Vancouver = basement garbage

Use your brain.

I don’t give a **** about Vancouver, in fact I hate them with a passion. I no longer care to continue any conversation about them or you pissing on the Leafs. Ignored

This has literally nothing to do with this entire thread. If you hate the Canucks so much, why do you comment in every post involving them. People like you and pink fly are the reason Leaf fans get such a bad rap on these boards. Also, how can you not care about a team but also hate them with a burning passion. That seems very contradictory

 

[Canadian Canuck]

This has literally nothing to do with this entire thread. If you hate the Canucks so much, why do you comment in every post involving them. People like you and pink fly are the reason Leaf fans get such a bad rap on these boards. Also, how can you not care about a team but also hate them with a burning passion. That seems very contradictory

Exactly this. All him and Pink Fly do is constantly post on Vancouver threads just bashing everyone. They’re obsessed with the Canucks. RCS posts have absolutely nothing to do with the thread and he’s always trying to just stir the pot. Tired of it.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Yeah just posted in the Karlsson thread actually,



I think you'd be more open to it once you're sure Pettersson can transition smoothly into a #1C and draft a promising #2/3. If Kadri had his 30/30 season 2/3 years ago instead, I'd include him as the main piece for Karlsson without question.

I don’t feel like this is what this thread is about. This thread to me is long term signed Horvat for nothing guaranteed beyond 1 year of Karlsson.

Would you trade a signed(5 years) nylander, for Karlsson with only one year left, and you do not get to negotiate a new deal first?

 

[Ace of Hades]

 

[eviohh26]

Bahahhahaha man... Toronto fans are so SALTY. why are they even in this thread? Bahahaha

 

[Icebreakers]

He's scored 161 points, avg out over 4 years is 40.25 pts. The stats don't lie.

You don't do career point averages for projecting into the future and current play. He started on the 4th line and worked his way up.

And you didn't even factor in games missed. By your logic Alex Barkov is a 49 point player because he has 49.8 points average over the last 5 seasons.

 

[clunk]

Fine value in a vacuum but doesn't make any sense for the Canucks at this point in time, as nice as it would be to have Karlsson. Bo Horvat is too important to our future.

 

[BlueBaron]

Classy thread.

Attack neutral fan who does not share your valuation.

Attack players on neutral fans team to retaliate.

Complain that fans of neutral team participate in thread.

Priceless.

Back to the OP

There is no sense in making any trade proposals with Ottawa unless you work under the assumption Karlsson is extended for 8 years to yield maximum value because most HF Sens fans do not see any reality where they move him any other way.

If you were viewing Karlsson as a 1 year rental Horvat is more than fair value, but of course that is a risky move from Vancouver's point of view and they in turn would not trade Horvat unless they were keeping the player.

Horvat, a 1rst and your best prospect is probably a more realistic starting point in that scenario.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Who could possibly have seen this coming?

Senators fan overvaluing their current hand, as they have a UFA heading out the door and will actually get nothing (barring a panic move at the trade deadline that brings back a 2nd and a prospect).

Vancouver fan overvaluing their up and coming but unproven two way centerman ... "WITH HUGE UPSIDE".

Naw. Good thread topic.

 

[SensNation613]

Absolutely not.

 

[Agent Zub]

Fine value in a vacuum but doesn't make any sense for the Canucks at this point in time, as nice as it would be to have Karlsson. Bo Horvat is too important to our future.

i dont understand this at all. karlsson is 27 , horvat is 23

only one will go down as one of the greatest players of his generation

wtf are people smoking

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Bo Horvat is great, and I'm not really a fan of Karlsson...

... But holy s*** this is bad.

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

What the heck are some Canuck fans smoking here... I take this deal and run like a bandit. Canuck can easily extend Karlsson with the cap space once we get him. Not often a #1 defensemen becomes available for the cheap haha.

Yepp i would also,,I like Bo but he is not a true 1 center.He is a great 2 center with great leadership skills.Id take Karlsson any day as he is a favorite player of mine.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Exactly this. All him and Pink Fly do is constantly post on Vancouver threads just bashing everyone. They’re obsessed with the Canucks. RCS posts have absolutely nothing to do with the thread and he’s always trying to just stir the pot. Tired of it.

I just ignore them.

 

[SensNation613]

i dont understand this at all. karlsson is 27 , horvat is 23

only one will go down as one of the greatest players of his generation

wtf are people smoking

Agreed, it's a five year difference between them. The difference in quality is worth the age and contract status downgrade for the Nucks. Regardless of whether you're competing, rebuilding, or re-tooling. You're upgrading from a good 2C to a top three talent in the entire NHL. I'd understand this argument for Laine, Matthews, Eichel and a couple of others, but Horvat? Benning should take this and run. It's especially true when defensemen are less likely to slow down than forwards. Most elite defensemen can play well into their late 30s and early 40s, Karlsson is no different.

 

[GodEmperor]

Agreed, it's a five year difference between them. The difference in quality is worth the age and contract status downgrade for the Nucks. Regardless of whether you're competing, rebuilding, or re-tooling. You're upgrading from a good 2C to a top three talent in the entire NHL. I'd understand this argument for Laine, Matthews, Eichel and a couple of others, but Horvat? Benning should take this and run. It's especially true when defensemen are less likely to slow down than forwards. Most elite defensemen can play well into their late 30s and early 40s, Karlsson is no different.

What is the guarantee he stays there?

Horvat has 1c upside, especially with how many players have come out of nowhere in their development.

Nobody has any idea if Karlsson would even stay in Vancouver, so potential 1C v a generational defender coming off of a very severe injury who can walk in one year? It really depends on your mindset, if you knew you could lock up Karlsson, it's a great deal for the Nucks, but if you have any doubt beyond 25% that he will walk, why gamble?

 

[PinkFly]

No one even compared them lol. Everyone knows you are in love with Matthews. How's that "Matthews better than McDavid" statement coming along? By the way, Horvat was on pace to outproduce Kadri this year had he stayed healthy. So is Kadri average too?



It's Horvat's fault the team isn't good? Besides, he has the same amount of goals as Nylander so far.

Horvat is part of a team that couldn't make the playoffs. Not saying he's the problem (he's actually pretty decent, just overrated when people call him a #1C), but he's not part of the solution (or else the Canucks wouldn't be so bad). Nylander has been able to help his team make the playoffs every year he's been on the team.

 

[PinkFly]

Exactly this. All him and Pink Fly do is constantly post on Vancouver threads just bashing everyone. They’re obsessed with the Canucks. RCS posts have absolutely nothing to do with the thread and he’s always trying to just stir the pot. Tired of it.

This has literally nothing to do with this entire thread. If you hate the Canucks so much, why do you comment in every post involving them. People like you and pink fly are the reason Leaf fans get such a bad rap on these boards. Also, how can you not care about a team but also hate them with a burning passion. That seems very contradictory

All I did was post replying to Canadian Canuck who stated that Horvat is a #1C when he clearly is not. I don't see how some criticism for one of your players is a bad thing.

Then I replied to dim Jim who said he couldn't think of any reasons why the Canucks would do this trade (lol).

I don't see an issue with any of my posts.

 

[terrible dee]

Not interested in other's opinion of Horvat.

Unless you've followed his career closely you don't know that every weakness he's been labeled with he has eliminated through ass-busting hard work, dedication and focus

He prepares, trains and works on his game the way Crosby does, With each passing season you see quantifiable evidence that he has laser beam focus on improving his game, it just gets better and better every year.

And unless you've seen how he handles himself as a person, (for instance at the All-Star game in L.A a year or two ago, a friend of mine (Duck's season ticket holder, loves the merch and collectibles) told me how the current players were very aloof and acted "put-out" when asked for autographs, then there was P.K Subban, who wasn't aloof but a straight up jerk, I asked him if any of the players were cool, imeadietly he replied: "Gretzky, Lemuiex, Orr...all the legeds were super cool and would actually hang out and talk to you, not just sign" I asked him if ANY of the current players seemed cool......"One," he said...."your guy Horvat, he was like Gretzky, Lemieux and those guys, super friendly, totally cool...but yeah, he was the only one"

So, I dare say it's safe to cheer on Horvat as when the camera stops rolling apparently, he doesn't turn into an entitled jerk,

And I'll take a guy like that over a guy who interrupts his teams season by blabbing to the media about how he's going to move hell and high water to squeeze every last million out of the Senators, extra millions I'm sure he'll never even get around to spending, yet with his team hitting the skids, this "Captian" decides that the #1 issue fans need to be hearing about is how much money he is entitled to in 2 1/2 years....

....I feel really bad for the personal issues his family had this year, but I have to say he DOES NOT impress me as a human being, I think Karlsson is a very VERY selfish man, even a few weeks after his "Show me the money" speech, when trying to mend fences he says "I think the team has done a good job of surrounding ME with what I NEED to win"

Stop and think about that stuff for a minute, as opaque as hockey players are, and try to be, Karlson in a few short weeks opened a window into the REAL Erik Karlson, and inadvertently showed the world what kind of a man he was (That may have changed with the other life-altering personal events he suffered, I don't know)

THINK for a minute....what kind of a persona says those kinds of things?

Someone who is completely self-centered AND DOESN'T REALIZE IT,

I wouldn't take him on my team for free, those guys are cancer, Karlsson will never win anything, he's angling to price himself so high no team who agrees to his demands will be able to afford to contend, especially since we have seen his peak, it has come and gone, the injuries take a little piece from you that never comes back, he will NEVER be able to earn the type of money he feels he is entitled to.

I don't want to hear about Karlsson money, what he doesn't understand is that the NHL is NOT there to serve HIM.......the NHL is an ENTERTAINMENT property that has CUSTOMERS,

I find zero entertainment value in listening to a spoiled millionaire tantrum for more millions he'll never need or even spend, but feels he needs because his ego DEMANDS it.

Horvat is EXACTLY the type of guy I enjoy cheering for, the type of guy it feels good to watch succeed, this increases the entertainment I derive from watching the NHL.

Why in the world ANYONE would want Erik Karlsson over Bo Horvat is beyond me, except that most people are not aware of how the two REALLY stack up against each other when it comes to getting your money's worth from the NHL

As a customer, Bo delivers what I pay for, Karlsson doesn't even realize he HAS customers, and if he does he certainly doesn't care, based on some of what he's said, I don't even know if he realizes he has teammates

 

[4thlineduster]

Not interested in other's opinion of Horvat.

Unless you've followed his career closely you don't know that every weakness he's been labeled with he has eliminated through ass-busting hard work, dedication and focus

He prepares, trains and works on his game the way Crosby does, With each passing season you see quantifiable evidence that he has laser beam focus on improving his game, it just gets better and better every year.

And unless you've seen how he handles himself as a person, (for instance at the All-Star game in L.A a year or two ago, a friend of mine (Duck's season ticket holder, loves the merch and collectibles) told me how the current players were very aloof and acted "put-out" when asked for autographs, then there was P.K Subban, who wasn't aloof but a straight up jerk, I asked him if any of the players were cool, imeadietly he replied: "Gretzky, Lemuiex, Orr...all the legeds were super cool and would actually hang out and talk to you, not just sign" I asked him if ANY of the current players seemed cool......"One," he said...."your guy Horvat, he was like Gretzky, Lemieux and those guys, super friendly, totally cool...but yeah, he was the only one"

So, I dare say it's safe to cheer on Horvat as when the camera stops rolling apparently, he doesn't turn into an entitled jerk,

And I'll take a guy like that over a guy who interrupts his teams season by blabbing to the media about how he's going to move hell and high water to squeeze every last million out of the Senators, extra millions I'm sure he'll never even get around to spending, yet with his team hitting the skids, this "Captian" decides that the #1 issue fans need to be hearing about is how much money he is entitled to in 2 1/2 years....

....I feel really bad for the personal issues his family had this year, but I have to say he DOES NOT impress me as a human being, I think Karlsson is a very VERY selfish man, even a few weeks after his "Show me the money" speech, when trying to mend fences he says "I think the team has done a good job of surrounding ME with what I NEED to win"

Stop and think about that stuff for a minute, as opaque as hockey players are, and try to be, Karlson in a few short weeks opened a window into the REAL Erik Karlson, and inadvertently showed the world what kind of a man he was (That may have changed with the other life-altering personal events he suffered, I don't know)

THINK for a minute....what kind of a persona says those kinds of things?

Someone who is completely self-centered AND DOESN'T REALIZE IT,

I wouldn't take him on my team for free, those guys are cancer, Karlsson will never win anything, he's angling to price himself so high no team who agrees to his demands will be able to afford to contend, especially since we have seen his peak, it has come and gone, the injuries take a little piece from you that never comes back, he will NEVER be able to earn the type of money he feels he is entitled to.

I don't want to hear about Karlsson money, what he doesn't understand is that the NHL is NOT there to serve HIM.......the NHL is an ENTERTAINMENT property that has CUSTOMERS,

I find zero entertainment value in listening to a spoiled millionaire tantrum for more millions he'll never need or even spend, but feels he needs because his ego DEMANDS it.

Horvat is EXACTLY the type of guy I enjoy cheering for, the type of guy it feels good to watch succeed, this increases the entertainment I derive from watching the NHL.

Why in the world ANYONE would want Erik Karlsson over Bo Horvat is beyond me, except that most people are not aware of how the two REALLY stack up against each other when it comes to getting your money's worth from the NHL

As a customer, Bo delivers what I pay for, Karlsson doesn't even realize he HAS customers, and if he does he certainly doesn't care, based on some of what he's said, I don't even know if he realizes he has teammates

I hear John Scott is a really nice guy too. Guess you’d rather him on your team over Karlsson as well?

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

Not interested in other's opinion of Horvat.

Unless you've followed his career closely you don't know that every weakness he's been labeled with he has eliminated through ass-busting hard work, dedication and focus

He prepares, trains and works on his game the way Crosby does, With each passing season you see quantifiable evidence that he has laser beam focus on improving his game, it just gets better and better every year.

And unless you've seen how he handles himself as a person, (for instance at the All-Star game in L.A a year or two ago, a friend of mine (Duck's season ticket holder, loves the merch and collectibles) told me how the current players were very aloof and acted "put-out" when asked for autographs, then there was P.K Subban, who wasn't aloof but a straight up jerk, I asked him if any of the players were cool, imeadietly he replied: "Gretzky, Lemuiex, Orr...all the legeds were super cool and would actually hang out and talk to you, not just sign" I asked him if ANY of the current players seemed cool......"One," he said...."your guy Horvat, he was like Gretzky, Lemieux and those guys, super friendly, totally cool...but yeah, he was the only one"

So, I dare say it's safe to cheer on Horvat as when the camera stops rolling apparently, he doesn't turn into an entitled jerk,

Horvat is EXACTLY the type of guy I enjoy cheering for, the type of guy it feels good to watch succeed, this increases the entertainment I derive from watching the NHL.

Why in the world ANYONE would want Erik Karlsson over Bo Horvat is beyond me, except that most people are not aware of how the two REALLY stack up against each other when it comes to getting your money's worth from the NHL

As a customer, Bo delivers what I pay for, Karlsson doesn't even realize he HAS customers, and if he does he certainly doesn't care, based on some of what he's said, I don't even know if he realizes he has teammates

You've written a good amount about Horvat and I think agree he is an excellent player. In particular the progression in his skating from his first year in the league to now has been amazing. I can't recall the last time I've seen that much of a difference in skating in a professional hockey player.

Unfortunately the reasons you've listed as why you would pick Bo over Karlsson is based entirely on fiction. First of all the trade proposal is out there, even by these boards standards. However I'm not seeing very much truth in your post.

And I'll take a guy like that over a guy who interrupts his teams season by blabbing to the media about how he's going to move hell and high water to squeeze every last million out of the Senators, extra millions I'm sure he'll never even get around to spending, yet with his team hitting the skids, this "Captian" decides that the #1 issue fans need to be hearing about is how much money he is entitled to in 2 1/2 years....

That is just simply inaccurate. Here is his quote after reporters were asking him to respond to what Doughty had said earlier in the year: “When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going. I like it here, I’m comfortable here, I’ve been here my whole career. It’s something that I invested all my time in and something I would like to see all the way through. But at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, if it’s not the right fit and it’s not going to work out business-wise, then you’re going to have to look elsewhere because that’s what owners are going to do, as well.”

What is wrong with what he said here? There is speculation to what number that could potentially be but that's all it is. How can you blame someone for wanting to get what they feel they're worth? Again there isn't a number yet so we can only guess it's between the 10-12mil range. One of if not the best defenceman in the NHL over the past 5 years has been playing for 500k more a season than Loui Eriksson. As a Sens fan those comments didn't faze me one bit.

....I feel really bad for the personal issues his family had this year, but I have to say he DOES NOT impress me as a human being, I think Karlsson is a very VERY selfish man, even a few weeks after his "Show me the money" speech, when trying to mend fences he says "I think the team has done a good job of surrounding ME with what I NEED to win"

Do you happen to have a link to this quote? I don't recall him saying that at all.

I don't want to hear about Karlsson money, what he doesn't understand is that the NHL is NOT there to serve HIM.......the NHL is an ENTERTAINMENT property that has CUSTOMERS,

I find zero entertainment value in listening to a spoiled millionaire tantrum for more millions he'll never need or even spend, but feels he needs because his ego DEMANDS it.

That is one skewed view of what he said. Karlsson also mentioned this in a Swedish interview a couple days after the media made a big fuss about it.

"I do not really think it was so I said, but that's how they broke it. I want to stay in Ottawa, it's my home and my first priority. My comment was somewhat taken from its context. It's more so that when that time comes, whether I'm or someone else, you'll get what you're worth, there's nothing more about it. My priority has always been to stay here all my career. They spanned it a bit in the opposite direction and unfortunately, it's the media here sometimes."

Why in the world ANYONE would want Erik Karlsson over Bo Horvat is beyond me, except that most people are not aware of how the two REALLY stack up against each other when it comes to getting your money's worth from the NHL.

It's a bit boggling how you got this image of EK in your head based on pretty much nothing. I don't get the lengths some posters go to justify their stances on ridiculous trade proposals. Obviously this trade would never happen in real life for a number of reasons, but this narrative that Karlsson is a selfish person that is unaware he has fans or teammates is just garbage.