Proposal: Erik Karlsson for Bo Horvat

[CaptainCrunch67]

the Canucks wouldn't do this, they're at the starting point of a rebuild. trading for a unsigned Karlsson would just be dumb.

 

[34]

Is this a joke? Just when you think you have seen it all .

EK is worth 100 Horvats. Ottawa hangs the phone up and laughs. Delusional.

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

The spin people put on things can be hilarious. Yeah you can drop a players career point total down on a 4 year career if without any context you include a 25 point rookie season. Horvat's numbers show a clear progression:

GP-P
68-25
82-40
81-52
64-44 (56P over 82GP)

Now that he's moved into the #1 role and finally getting some better line mates (Boeser) he is rounding into a fairly steady 60 point-range center. Potential to go higher in a career year, with potential for 40 or 50 point seasons due to injuries.

Honestly. His rookie year he was playing with Derek Dorsett and Ronalds Kenins. Not exactly Baertschi and Boeser.

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

Is this a joke? Just when you think you have seen it all .

EK is worth 100 Horvats. Ottawa hangs the phone up and laughs. Delusional.

Yeah we’re aware but as always thank you for your insightful input RCS

 

[RandV]

That's not the point of this proposal.

OP suggested Horvat for Karlsson.

certain nucks fans said they would not trade Horvat for Karlsson because he is unsigned. I said if that proposal were ever on the table, they could just re-flip Karlsson for a larger return than Horvat.

To answer your question, the Sens would never trade Karlsson for just Horvat because that would be a terrible return.

And that's something that literally never happens in the NHL, especially the 'larger return' part.

The most recent and best example of this happening is when the Isles traded for at the time star 1st liner Thomas Vanek. They basically paid full value for him with no guarantee of an extension, trading consistent 30 goal scorer Matt Moulson, a 1st (ended up being Colin White), and a 2nd straight up for Vanek. Vanek wouldn't sign and the Isles bombed the season, ending up having to trade him again at the deadline with a 4th for basically two 2nds.

Like I said the its just a bad idea for both sides, particularly because you don't know what Karlsson wants to do. You can't just make up some complete fantasy scenario for Vancouver then say it's actually good for us.

 

[Addison Rae]

Is today's Ryan Kesler anywhere close to a Selke winner?

Even if he were, those guys hold a significantly lower value than Norris winners.

Bo Horvat was on pace for ~60 points this year while Kesler scored at a ~25 point pace this year what an awful comparison.

Do some research before posting.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Hold on so JVR wasn't a 30/30 player because he had only scored 30 goals once and 60 points only twice despite being on pace for those totals every year in Toronto, but now Horvat is a "60 point range center" despite having a career high of 52 points and never once pacing for 60?

 

[Addison Rae]

If people want to have an actual conversation instead of saying “hurr durr Horvat overrated” I’m all ears.

Horvat scored at a 28/28 rate this despite missing his best linemate down the stretch for ~ 6 weeks. He scored at pretty much the same rate as Logan Couture, Ryan Johansen and Ryan O’Reilly this year at even strength and was absolutely elite at it in 2016/2017. He’s gotten better every year as a player and is still showing upside.

He’ll probably turn into a Logan Couture level ~65 point centre with a bit worse defense than Couture. That’s an extremely good asset.

From a Vancouver perspective why do we trade a player who just turned 23 last week who’s trending towards being a ~60 point centre for 1 year of Erik Karlsson? Karlsson f***ing owns but the uncertainty around keeping him is an awful gamble for a team that should be rebuilding.

Karlsson to me is the 3rd best player in the NHL fwiw.

 

[Addison Rae]

Hold on so JVR wasn't a 30/30 player because he had only scored 30 goals once and 60 points only twice despite being on pace for those totals every year in Toronto, but now Horvat is a "60 point range center" despite having a career high of 52 points and never once pacing for 60?

Do you know what ~ stands for? Bo Horvat turned 23 last week and has gotten better every season, and is trending upwards why does every thread have to be about Toronto?

 

[Martin Skoula]

Do you know what ~ stands for? Bo Horvat turned 23 last week and has gotten better every season, and is trending upwards why does every thread have to be about Toronto?

He's a ~50 point player right now, development is not linear.

 

[Liver King]

how is this not locked yet? what a terrible proposal for Karlsson

 

[Addison Rae]

He's a ~50 point player right now, development is not linear.

Do you know what linear means? Take a look at Bo Horvat’s statistics as a NHL player they’re the dictionary definition of linear development.

 

[AvatarAang]

the Canucks wouldn't do this, they're at the starting point of a rebuild. trading for a unsigned Karlsson would just be dumb.

"Sorry I live in Canada, I'd much rather have $20CAD (Horvat) than $100USD (Karlsson)"

That's basically how dumb your arguement is. Karlsson can get you 5 Horvats. Just because your rebuilding doesn't mean you turn down the much more valuable asset, you take Karlsson and you flip him for way more than Horvat.

I can't believe this has to be said multiple times to canuck fans. Apologies to the few nucks fans here that actually understand hockey.

 

[PinkFly]

If people want to have an actual conversation instead of saying “hurr durr Horvat overrated” I’m all ears.

Horvat scored at a 28/28 rate this despite missing his best linemate down the stretch for ~ 6 weeks. He scored at pretty much the same rate as Logan Couture, Ryan Johansen and Ryan O’Reilly this year at even strength and was absolutely elite at it in 2016/2017. He’s gotten better every year as a player and is still showing upside.

He’ll probably turn into a Logan Couture level ~65 point centre with a bit worse defense than Couture. That’s an extremely good asset.

From a Vancouver perspective why do we trade a player who just turned 23 last week who’s trending towards being a ~60 point centre for 1 year of Erik Karlsson? Karlsson ****ing owns but the uncertainty around keeping him is an awful gamble for a team that should be rebuilding.

Karlsson to me is the 3rd best player in the NHL fwiw.

Idk, maybe because that player is the best defenceman in the world?

Or maybe because he literally carried a crappy team to one goal away from the SCF a year ago?

Or maybe because he has 2 Norris trophies and multiple nominations?

Or maybe because he has multiple times the value of Bo Horvat?

Or maybe because Vancouver could probably flip Karlsson for alot more than what Horvat is worth if the trade went down?


Jeez, other than that I can't really think of why Vancouver would do this....

 

[armani]

Straight up

Hell No!

 

[Scott Stevens]

Is this a joke? Just when you think you have seen it all .

EK is worth 100 Horvats. Ottawa hangs the phone up and laughs. Delusional.

Stuff like years of control only matters when they suit you. Sounds about right.

BEAUTIFUL LOOSE PUCK RETRIEVAL MATTHEWS!

 

[Martin Skoula]

Do you know what linear means? Take a look at Bo Horvat’s statistics as a NHL player they’re the dictionary definition of linear development.

100%, I just looked it up and you're right, linear means "a .15 PPG increase in 1 year and a .5 PPG increase in the next".

 

[Scott Stevens]

Do you know what linear means? Take a look at Bo Horvat’s statistics as a NHL player they’re the dictionary definition of linear development.

You aren’t going to rattle @Martin Skoula . Let’s just say he’s the more “poised” poster.

 

[mattydamon]

EK is obviously worth much more than Bo, but 1 year and no guarantee of re-signing would be a terrible trade for the Nucks.

Conversely, a signed EK is worth significantly more - not even getting into the fact the Nucks will still be garbage for the next couple years even with EK - absolutely pointless trade.

 

[Addison Rae]

Idk, maybe because that player is the best defenceman in the world?

Or maybe because he literally carried a crappy team to one goal away from the SCF a year ago?

Or maybe because he has 2 Norris trophies and multiple nominations?

Or maybe because he has multiple times the value of Bo Horvat?

Or maybe because Vancouver could probably flip Karlsson for alot more than what Horvat is worth if the trade went down?


Jeez, other than that I can't really think of why Vancouver would do this....

Yeah because “flipping” is so common in the NHL today, right?

 

[PinkFly]

Do you know what ~ stands for? Bo Horvat turned 23 last week and has gotten better every season, and is trending upwards why does every thread have to be about Toronto?

By your logic almost every thread is about multiple teams because different players from different teams are mentioned in so many threads. Lol.

 

[Addison Rae]

100%, I just looked it up and you're right, linear means "a .15 PPG increase in 1 year and a .5 PPG increase in the next".

So you’re admitting that he’s progressed at every step (season)

Correct? Can’t say the same thing about William Nylander, I guess.

 

[Addison Rae]

"Sorry I live in Canada, I'd much rather have $20CAD (Horvat) than $100USD (Karlsson)"

That's basically how dumb your arguement is. Karlsson can get you 5 Horvats. Just because your rebuilding doesn't mean you turn down the much more valuable asset, you take Karlsson and you flip him for way more than Horvat.

I can't believe this has to be said multiple times to canuck fans. Apologies to the few nucks fans here that actually understand hockey.

Can’t you point towards precedence of this? Where a team acquired a player and then flipped him for more.

You may understand EA Sports hockey but that’s not how it works in the real world.

 

[PinkFly]

Do you know what ~ stands for? Bo Horvat turned 23 last week and has gotten better every season, and is trending upwards why does every thread have to be about Toronto?

So you’re admitting that he’s progressed at every step (season)

Correct? Can’t say the same thing about William Nylander, I guess.

Hmm...

Complains about Toronto being mentioned in a Vancouver thread. Brings up Nylander 5 posts later.

 

[Addison Rae]

Hmm...

Complains about Toronto being mentioned in a Vancouver thread. Brings up Nylander 5 posts later.

Because he’s a Leafs fan, I was using him as an example. If JVR wasn’t brought up I would bring up Nylander.

Your fan base and their inferiority complex is just laughable.