Recalled/Assigned: Eric O'Dell on waivers CRITICAL MOD WARNING POST #176

[Holden Caulfield]

IMO you are not a realist , you are a critic of the direction that has been taken and are reluctant to change prior negative positions and proclamations , you have made statements in the past that were not accurate to prop your stance. LA had how many years prior to the year the finished 5th last that contributed to the championship?

As to the bolded this is a lie. I have never lied. You keep stating this, it continue to be wrong. I said Jets had not added picks. The Jets have drafted 7 times in top 2 rounds, less than 8 that is given. Ie not adding picks is true completely. Overall I think they were exactly at 7 picks per draft. Maybe -1/+1, which is not adding picks in any way, one or two doesn't make or break that statement. That is not lying.

And yes the LA comment was a little tongue in cheek, but people keep saying how many years it takes for any improvement when that's just not true. Teams can improve quickly. Look at Colorado if you want. I know LA had many bad years before. Done with a true rebuild where they DID add picks (much like CHI). Yes LA had some pieces already in place before rebuild, but so did Winnipeg.

Do you think that drafting and developing are not and can not be central , the core piece of building a winning team? Do you think something else should be? We added a very good , young player at a position of need this year at a very good contract cost didn't we? Did we lose a player of that level ? Those aren't parts of a "plan" then?

Draft and develop can and should be central to a rebuild. However Jets have shown absolutely no signs of rebuilding, not adding picks, not giving chances to young players instead sticking with career depth/minor league players with no upside.

We added Perreault. Ok. Decent enough player, how is that part of any plan? It's a signing. Every team has lots of those haha.

Drafting smart , high character , extremely high hockey IQ players isn't part of a plan ? Look at last night's roster , name everyone that was not a Thrasher / Jet prospect/player when the relocation happened. Now look at the second Jets era , is there a difference? What about looking ahead to next year ? Do we logically see an influx of options for many roster spots ? This is not a result of any plan according to you though , is it luck?

No, that's just drafting. That happens. 29 other teams are ALSO trying to draft smart, high character, extremely high hockey IQ players that can help their team. That's the whole point of the draft!

No idea what you are talking about "second" Jets era. Sorry not sure what you are talking about.

Roster battles happen. Awesome. Jets have consistently gone for the Mark Flood, Anthony Peluso, Randy Jones' of the world though so I'll believe it when I see it. Don't see how that's part of a plan.

The black hole is thrown around and really has no reason to be . Would I like the Jets to have the top pick or one of the top 3 ? Of course if we also didn't play poorly enough to finish that low. Scheifele , Trouba , Morrissey , Ehlers all look to be significant pieces and imo at least half of those picks will be major , impacting players. Like Button said this week , the Jets are getting really good players regardless of where they are selecting. That isn't a result of planning or a plan as you say? You can say and believe in what you wish of course , just as I can , and I believe that not only do we indeed have a plan , but that said plan is actually working and leading us down a path where we soon will be a playoff team with a very very good young core and a prospect core that is tonnes better than what we inherited .

The plan is exactly what we are seeing , again you and others have made it clear you both don't like it and think it is wrong and also that it won't lead to success. I disagree on all counts , we'll see who is/was right and I think sooner than later.

Drafting and developing (or rebuilding) isn't just sticking with your picks and hoping to out draft every team. Also as I have often stated it is also not about tanking for a top pick (as Edmonton showed). It's also about adding other key picks and prospects that can help the team, guys like Voynov, Simmonds, Clifford, Quick, Martinez, King, Nolan were key late picks Kings got due adding picks and prospects during rebuild.

This franchise was a wasteland and terribly run , we needed to get our heads above water unfortunately and that has taken time , we are building for sustained success and it is taking time , I am not saying it isn't , but it is being done with a plan .

Looking forward to seeing how our future players perform this year , I quite suspect we'll have some tremendous seasons from more than one or two of them . Having a situation like that doesn't happen without a plan , unless someone wants to contribute that to being lucky perhaps?

You not liking the plan doesn't mean there isn't one , there is . If that plan works I wonder what the naysayers will say towards that? I think we will see what that is .

Franchise was so horribly run yet we've not made any changes. That tracks.

Atlanta got Bryan Little. Does that mean that they were a fantastic team so well run with a great plan? Drafting a good player or two does not make a plan.

 

[Flair Hay]

I like the direction our team is heading overall

 

[Holden Caulfield]

This isn't to say Jets haven't made good moves. Perreault signing, Ehlers + Glover last draft was great considering the handicap they put themselves in, etc. Just way too many missteps and not consistent idea of what they want to do is the problem. Sign a guy, trade him 5 games later. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Whileee]

Back to O'Dell

The issue I have with O'Dell being sent down is simple, i'll leave waivers out of it.

If someone in our top 9 gets hurt, you need a skill guy to plug in. Here we are now - Kane is probably going to miss some games. As it stands Halischuk likely moves onto the third line. The other options are Thorburn, Peluso, Galiardi...

Playoff teams don't have Halischuk playing on the 3rd line, or any of the other options. Where as O'Dell still gives us a reasonable chance to maintain a decent 3rd line IMO. All we have to fill holes right now are guys that should never be anywhere but a 4th line.

O'Dell was "plugged in" to a key role to provide some offense last year when 20-year old rookie Scheifele went down. He centered one of our top-two scoring wingers for the last 14 games of the season, managing 1 goal and 3 assists during that stretch. O'Dell might be able to slot in and provide some offense, but he hasn't shown that at the NHL level when given the chance. If he wasn't able to even match Thorburn's offensive production in a top-9 role, I find it a bit odd that he's seen as the skill guy that we need to slot into that role.

 

[theamazingchris]

O'Dell was "plugged in" to a key role to provide some offense last year when 20-year old rookie Scheifele went down. He centered one of our top-two scoring wingers for the last 14 games of the season, managing 1 goal and 3 assists during that stretch. O'Dell might be able to slot in and provide some offense, but he hasn't shown that at the NHL level when given the chance. If he wasn't able to even match Thorburn's offensive production in a top-9 role, I find it a bit odd that he's seen as the skill guy that we need to slot into that role.

I mean, it was only 14 games. If you took Wheeler's first 14 games last year, you wouldn't be too impressed with him either. I don't think that that's long enough to be considered a real "chance" in a scoring line role. Remember how long Scheifele took to get settled in? He looks pretty good now.

I just want to see him for a good chunk of the season. If it doesn't work out that's fine, and he'll just have to settle for being a real good AHLer. But real good AHLers often become real good NHLers.

EDIT: Plus, while it's true he didn't produce ridiculous numbers with Kane, he wasn't getting swamped, either. Plus he held up pretty well in the prior 16 when he was playing with Halischuck, Setoguchi, Peluso, and Wright; not exactly our best players. There's a reason half those guys are gone.

 

[Gm0ney]

O'Dell was "plugged in" to a key role to provide some offense last year when 20-year old rookie Scheifele went down. He centered one of our top-two scoring wingers for the last 14 games of the season, managing 1 goal and 3 assists during that stretch. O'Dell might be able to slot in and provide some offense, but he hasn't shown that at the NHL level when given the chance. If he wasn't able to even match Thorburn's offensive production in a top-9 role, I find it a bit odd that he's seen as the skill guy that we need to slot into that role.

I think you're misremembering O'Dell's "key role" at the end of the season. He was deployed in a 3rd line role with Devon Setoguchi on his wing...Olli Jokinen stepped up to replace Scheifele and the season went to **** for some reason...?

 

[Whileee]

I mean, it was only 14 games. If you took Wheeler's first 14 games last year, you wouldn't be too impressed with him either. I don't think that that's long enough to be considered a real "chance" in a scoring line role. Remember how long Scheifele took to get settled in? He looks pretty good now.

I just want to see him for a good chunk of the season. If it doesn't work out that's fine, and he'll just have to settle for being a real good AHLer. But real good AHLers often become real good NHLers.

EDIT: Plus, while it's true he didn't produce ridiculous numbers with Kane, he wasn't getting swamped, either. Plus he held up pretty well in the prior 16 when he was playing with Halischuck, Setoguchi, Peluso, and Wright; not exactly our best players. There's a reason half those guys are gone.

I'm not sure where O'Dell fits in a major role with the top-9 on this team, though. The only free spot is Lowry's LW position, and I don't mind Lowry getting the chance to grow into that role.

 

[Whileee]

I think you're misremembering O'Dell's "key role" at the end of the season. He was deployed in a 3rd line role with Devon Setoguchi on his wing...Olli Jokinen stepped up to replace Scheifele and the season went to **** for some reason...?

As I recall, Jokinen was mostly playing with Wheeler and Tangradi.

O'Dell with Kane and Halischuk.

I think I remember looking this up...

http://www.linecombinations.com/index.php?team=WIN&linetype=evf&range=10

 

[aj8000]

This isn't to say Jets haven't made good moves. Perreault signing, Ehlers + Glover last draft was great considering the handicap they put themselves in, etc. Just way too many missteps and not consistent idea of what they want to do is the problem. Sign a guy, trade him 5 games later. Doesn't make sense.

I also have to disagree with your assessment. I think the Jets have done very well with the hand they were dealt. Adding picks mean they would need to give up the current core of the team if they wanted to get good picks, the jets are not in full rebuild mode, they are trying to set the foundation for a long term playoff team. That means you do not trade players away for the sake of trading players. High profile RFA signings are just that, high profile; however, high profile does not mean it will work out for the team. How many high profile RFA signings have been made and the deal turns out to be a dud for the team signing the individual.

 

[theamazingchris]

I'm not sure where O'Dell fits in a major role with the top-9 on this team, though. The only free spot is Lowry's LW position, and I don't mind Lowry getting the chance to grown into that role.

I don't mind that either; I'd rather have Lowry be a damn good LW than O'Dell, simply due to age. But hey, dudes can always play on their off-wing, injuries happen, etc., etc.

It's an asset management thing, basically. I was kinda ticked off when we lost Redmond, mainly because I thought he could have brought some value back in a trade/playing spot. And if O'Dell slips away before we really know what we have in him... I just don't want that.

 

[Whileee]

I don't mind that either; I'd rather have Lowry be a damn good LW than O'Dell, simply due to age. But hey, dudes can always play on their off-wing, injuries happen, etc., etc.

It's an asset management thing, basically. I was kinda ticked off when we lost Redmond, mainly because I thought he could have brought some value back in a trade/playing spot. And if O'Dell slips away before we really know what we have in him... I just don't want that.

I'm still not sure some are so worried about somehow missing out on O'Dell's potential as a top-9 player.

If the Jets do commit to O'Dell, he'll be blocking a position in the top-9 for Petan, Lowry, Ehlers, Kosmachuk or Copp. Otherwise, you could slot him into a 4th line role. Maybe he could be better than Thorburn in that role, but I don't see any evidence that he is going to be producing enough in low-usage 4th line role to make him a much better choice than a vet like Thorbs who is also valued for other things.

 

[garret9]

O`Dell cleared through waivers, so I hope that they use guys like him and Halischuk (preferably O`Dell IMO but whatevs) than Thorburn.

 

[KCjetsfan]

I'm still not sure some are so worried about somehow missing out on O'Dell's potential as a top-9 player.

If the Jets do commit to O'Dell, he'll be blocking a position in the top-9 for Petan, Lowry, Ehlers, Kosmachuk or Copp. Otherwise, you could slot him into a 4th line role. Maybe he could be better than Thorburn in that role, but I don't see any evidence that he is going to be producing enough in low-usage 4th line role to make him a much better choice than a vet like Thorbs who is also valued for other things.

maybe he's not long term but it's taken all of one game to expose that injuries will be our downfall (over dramatic, yes).

We've decided Petan et al are better served in junior this year, and that's fine. But I'd wish we'd use our 'better' options as fill ins in top 9, instead of being stuck with the scary proposition of Thor moving up the lineup.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It also means they won't or will be judicious in trading drafted players , like declining to add Comrie or Helle in a package for Leddy , at least until we've got our heads substantially above water. That's also part of the plan

I think you are making something out of that other than what it really is. The Jets could have included Olkinuora in a package. He appears to be more comparable to the goalie the Isles threw in. Looking at the rest of the package though I am glad the Jets did not submit a winning bid. IMO the Isles overpaid. The thing is that they could afford to. We cannot.

Following this debate I see 2 sides each overstating their case. On one side occasional deviations from what appears to be 'the plan' are used to bolster the case that there is no plan. On the other 'the plan' is defended with arguments that at least we haven't fallen into the trap of making one obviously bad move or another that no one is actually considering doing.

I think there could be a much more interesting debate or discussion of what the plan actually is and the likely results of that plan (without what appears to me to be the defending of entrenched positions). Just how it appears to me.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

O'Dell was "plugged in" to a key role to provide some offense last year when 20-year old rookie Scheifele went down. He centered one of our top-two scoring wingers for the last 14 games of the season, managing 1 goal and 3 assists during that stretch. O'Dell might be able to slot in and provide some offense, but he hasn't shown that at the NHL level when given the chance. If he wasn't able to even match Thorburn's offensive production in a top-9 role, I find it a bit odd that he's seen as the skill guy that we need to slot into that role.

I mean, it was only 14 games. If you took Wheeler's first 14 games last year, you wouldn't be too impressed with him either. I don't think that that's long enough to be considered a real "chance" in a scoring line role. Remember how long Scheifele took to get settled in? He looks pretty good now.

I just want to see him for a good chunk of the season. If it doesn't work out that's fine, and he'll just have to settle for being a real good AHLer. But real good AHLers often become real good NHLers.

EDIT: Plus, while it's true he didn't produce ridiculous numbers with Kane, he wasn't getting swamped, either. Plus he held up pretty well in the prior 16 when he was playing with Halischuck, Setoguchi, Peluso, and Wright; not exactly our best players. There's a reason half those guys are gone.

I agree.

I think you're misremembering O'Dell's "key role" at the end of the season. He was deployed in a 3rd line role with Devon Setoguchi on his wing...Olli Jokinen stepped up to replace Scheifele and the season went to **** for some reason...?

Not sure of the exact details, maybe a mix of everybody's remembrance. It was not a very good trial one way or another. O'Dell kept up. He didn't light it up but he didn't fall on his face either. It was a little chaotic.

I'm not sure where O'Dell fits in a major role with the top-9 on this team, though. The only free spot is Lowry's LW position, and I don't mind Lowry getting the chance to grow into that role.

Why do you not mind giving Lowry a chance to "grow into that role" but you object to letting O'Dell grow into that role? Honestly, O'Dell has demonstrated far more potential, granted he has also had more time in the A to do so.

As I recall, Jokinen was mostly playing with Wheeler and Tangradi.

O'Dell with Kane and Halischuk.

I think I remember looking this up...

http://www.linecombinations.com/index.php?team=WIN&linetype=evf&range=10

With Kane and Hali is not nearly as good as with Kane and Wheeler. I'm not at all sure that O'Dell is an NHL centre. I'd like to have seen him where Lowry is.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm still not sure some are so worried about somehow missing out on O'Dell's potential as a top-9 player.

If the Jets do commit to O'Dell, he'll be blocking a position in the top-9 for Petan, Lowry, Ehlers, Kosmachuk or Copp. Otherwise, you could slot him into a 4th line role. Maybe he could be better than Thorburn in that role, but I don't see any evidence that he is going to be producing enough in low-usage 4th line role to make him a much better choice than a vet like Thorbs who is also valued for other things.

There's that blocking thing again. If we played O'Dell this year and sent Lowry to the A to further develop his skills and O'Dell succeeds he isn't blocking. He is being the man the prospects have to beat out to get the job. If they do that then O'Dell will have acquired value as a trade. If he fails he can then be waived and Lowry brought up.

 

[jetkarma*]

As to the bolded this is a lie. I have never lied. You keep stating this, it continue to be wrong.

You made an inaccurate statement which when I pointed it out to you , you said indeed what you stated was not correct.

I never said you lied , you did however state something in a negative context regarding the Jets management that was not factual . You were made aware of it then , and now again. I am not and was not wrong , you were though .

As I have said before I don't mind if you or others have positions different than mine , I will point out factual inaccuracies though , and actually I hope some posters continue to make proclamations and statements in the way they have and do , because I am confident that many of those will be proven wrong.

As I also said , you feel this organization is failing and will continue to do so , I don't , we shall see what unfolds.

 

[jetkarma*]

I think you are making something out of that other than what it really is. The Jets could have included Olkinuora in a package. He appears to be more comparable to the goalie the Isles threw in. Looking at the rest of the package though I am glad the Jets did not submit a winning bid. IMO the Isles overpaid. The thing is that they could afford to. We cannot.

Following this debate I see 2 sides each overstating their case. On one side occasional deviations from what appears to be 'the plan' are used to bolster the case that there is no plan. On the other 'the plan' is defended with arguments that at least we haven't fallen into the trap of making one obviously bad move or another that no one is actually considering doing.

I think there could be a much more interesting debate or discussion of what the plan actually is and the likely results of that plan (without what appears to me to be the defending of entrenched positions). Just how it appears to me.

What has been said about the Leddy trade is that they wanted either Comrie or Helle included ,and that we were in serious discussions but declined to meet the asking price. So your saying we could have included Olkinuora instead goes aginst what I have heard , so I will go with that.

BTW is it your stance still that Petan never plays ?

 

[CanWin]

There's that blocking thing again. If we played O'Dell this year and sent Lowry to the A to further develop his skills and O'Dell succeeds he isn't blocking. He is being the man the prospects have to beat out to get the job. If they do that then O'Dell will have acquired value as a trade. If he fails he can then be waived and Lowry brought up.

That makes a whole lot of sense to me. At this rate, we risk losing O'Dell as a potential valuable piece. I don't think Kane wanted to play with that line last year. That was when he was not saying he wanted to be in Winnipeg, potentially asking for a trade. Kane has a propensity to play by himself, for himself. That seems to have changed this year. It is such a shame that he has gone down. Last year, though, O'Dell was stuck playing mainly playing defensively with linemates that couldn't/didn't show any excitement about working with him. O'Dell has potential that we haven't seen yet and there lies the rub. Mortimer, I believe you and I agree on that point.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What has been said about the Leddy trade is that they wanted either Comrie or Helle included ,and that we were in serious discussions but declined to meet the asking price. So your saying we could have included Olkinuora instead goes aginst what I have heard , so I will go with that.

BTW is it your stance still that Petan never plays ?

What I saw from you was that Chi wanted "a goalie prospect" and the Jets refused to include either Helle or Comrie. I have no idea what else might have been in the Jets package so maybe Chi wanted the goalie prospect to be the main piece in the Jets version. It is irrelevant given that an overpay would have been required to beat the Isles package.

Are you my ex-wife? She never forgot anything I said in haste either.

Considering that Petan apparently met all requirements, that is: played a high skilled, 2 way game and coped well with playing with men in spite of his size disadvantage and yet was sent down in spite of several lesser players making the team maybe that was not a farfetched statement. Given the results of this TC we could conclude that smaller, high skilled players need not apply. He was, IMO not judged fairly on merit at this TC so why would you expect him to be judged fairly on merit at any future TC? That said it was a bit of an overreaction.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

You made an inaccurate statement which when I pointed it out to you , you said indeed what you stated was not correct.

I never said you lied , you did however state something in a negative context regarding the Jets management that was not factual . You were made aware of it then , and now again. I am not and was not wrong , you were though .

As I have said before I don't mind if you or others have positions different than mine , I will point out factual inaccuracies though , and actually I hope some posters continue to make proclamations and statements in the way they have and do , because I am confident that many of those will be proven wrong.

As I also said , you feel this organization is failing and will continue to do so , I don't , we shall see what unfolds.

Nope never happened. I said not adding picks particularly early picks. which is accurate. 7 picks in top 2 rounds and 28 picks overall. i will ask you for the last time to stop lying about me.

 

[GoldenJet89]

I'm still not sure some are so worried about somehow missing out on O'Dell's potential as a top-9 player.

If the Jets do commit to O'Dell, he'll be blocking a position in the top-9 for Petan, Lowry, Ehlers, Kosmachuk or Copp. Otherwise, you could slot him into a 4th line role. Maybe he could be better than Thorburn in that role, but I don't see any evidence that he is going to be producing enough in low-usage 4th line role to make him a much better choice than a vet like Thorbs who is also valued for other things.

It's not so much missing out on O'Dell's top 9 potential that's the issue. It's putting Halischuk or Thorburn in a top 9 role that hurts.

Despite limited production last year I do believe O'Dell is a better fit on that line in case of injury and believe he would produce more points than whoever else is now going to get that spot. I think O'Dell would have more chemistry due to his play style, even if he isnt putting up a tonne of points. Just my opinion.

I would rather have Klingberg, Lipon, Cormier, anyone with some perceived upside get a look there, than a career 4th line grinder who we know isn't going to make their linemates any better.

 

[voyageur]

It's not so much missing out on O'Dell's top 9 potential that's the issue. It's putting Halischuk or Thorburn in a top 9 role that hurts.

Despite limited production last year I do believe O'Dell is a better fit on that line in case of injury and believe he would produce more points than whoever else is now going to get that spot. I think O'Dell would have more chemistry due to his play style, even if he isnt putting up a tonne of points. Just my opinion.

I would rather have Klingberg, Lipon, Cormier, anyone with some perceived upside get a look there, than a career 4th line grinder who we know isn't going to make their linemates any better.

As neither Halischuk or Thorburn started the season in the top 9 role, but one as a 4th line, and the other as a reserve, I would say that both Halischuk and Thorburn fit into Coach Maurice's conception of 4th line grinders. Halischuk earned his spot in camp, he was well prepared, was able to use his physical play to make room for skilled players when asked, excelled on the PK, and has a 15 goal pedigree due in part to a very good shot, something O'Dell can not yet boast. I dislike when Thorburn gets thrown under the bus. If our coach liked him, he must be a positive influence on the team, certainly he plays fearless, and I like this year's GST line considerably more than year 1, as they are in their proper role.

I look for O'Dell to quietly get himself back into game shape, and who knows, we already have one injury, maybe he will back before the quarter mark of the season. He doesn't slot well for a physical puck pursuit 4th line role, but he could be an option on the 3rd line. I look at the lack of depth we have at LW, with all our prospect being right handers who are asked to play on their offside, and maybe there is a trade coming down the road, as he will be unlikely to play his natural position with the Jets, and may not have the speed or size to be a winger in Maurice's system.

 

[Board Bard]

It's not so much missing out on O'Dell's top 9 potential that's the issue. It's putting Halischuk or Thorburn in a top 9 role that hurts.

Despite limited production last year I do believe O'Dell is a better fit on that line in case of injury and believe he would produce more points than whoever else is now going to get that spot. I think O'Dell would have more chemistry due to his play style, even if he isnt putting up a tonne of points. Just my opinion.

I would rather have Klingberg, Lipon, Cormier, anyone with some perceived upside get a look there, than a career 4th line grinder who we know isn't going to make their linemates any better.

I find it disconcerting that Maurice has essentially pencilled nine players into his top three lines (3 x 3 = 9) but held onto five guys for the slug line. As we've already seen and will again tonight and tomorrow, one (inevitable) hiccup elevates a plug into the top three. Would have much preferred another talent guy (did someone say Petan?) to support the top three lines and one fewer fourth-line slug to clog up the roster. It's not like they're interchangeable.

 

[voyageur]

I find it disconcerting that Maurice has essentially pencilled nine players into his top three lines (3 x 3 = 9) but held onto five guys for the slug line. As we've already seen and will again tonight and tomorrow, one (inevitable) hiccup elevates a plug into the top three. Would have much preferred another talent guy (did someone say Petan?) to support the top three lines and one fewer fourth-line slug to clog up the roster. It's not like they're interchangeable.

I think you saw both Galiardi and Halischuk were given opportunities to play in 3rd line roles in the preseason and produced. Both are effective on the PK which is where we want soldiers if 7 of our top 9 forwards are going to be used on the PP units. Both have put up 3rd line numbers in the past, 14 and 15 goal campaigns would not be what slugs produce. I just don't see where Petan would have fit into the equation, certainly if you want Perrault to produce, having Lowry as a winger to create space for him is a better strategy I think.

I think O'Dell would have had a better chance of holding down a spot if he were not injured, but that's the breaks. When I look at St. John's roster, in terms of forwards it is nice to have a prospect like O'Dell to call upon, who can get some regular ice time to get back into playing shape, because this year I would say it is likely only him, Lipon, and possibly Klingberg who will get looks. I think Kosmachuk will play the whole year in the A learning the game like Lowry did last year, unless injuries decimate us.