Recalled/Assigned: Eric O'Dell on waivers CRITICAL MOD WARNING POST #176

CaptainChef

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
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I'm okay if you and others think you can evaluate NHL talent better than Chevy, and gang. I do it all the time (check out my litany of anti-James Wright posts).

I still wouldn't necessarily trust the "crowd" over pros just because they watch a bunch of games. Heck, we can't even agree on this forum about many of the player decisions.

I think we make too many assumptions about how decisions are made in the backrooms of the Jets and other NHL franchises. What we hear in public is probably just a fraction of what is really going on behind the scenes. The Jets' view of Pavelec is probably a lot closer to Jets' fans than we hear or acknowledge. Even Maurice's latest vote of confidence is probably just that - an attempt to try to give Pavs the psychological space to perform better. But make no mistake, if he falters this year, he is going to be gonzo.

Can I hold you to that & what do you consider a "falter"??

Seems to me he has faltered for 2-3 years running yet he remains so other than a complete fan revolt (something in the nature that eventually got Noel canned), I'm not so sure about that
 

garret9

AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Mar 31, 2012
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Waivers don't really influence my opinion, since mine isn't necessarily on O`Dell the individual but the overall process... and not limited to the Jets. Also ignoring the fact that whether a player gets picked up on waivers has far more variables than if the the player is "good" or "bad".

I believe that teams -while efficient probably 80-90% elsewhere at prolevel evaluations- are inefficient in goaltending and fourth line markets due to biases.

Overall, it won't really hurt the Jets since it's a bias that I believe to be rampant throughout most of the NHL, although diminishing.
 

Bob E

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Aug 20, 2011
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I had zero doubt he would get claimed
Low and behold.
He will be back before you realize it. He will be the first forward call up when someone gets hurt.

I think it depends on who is hurt, King.

If it's a top 9 C, then I agree. If it's a top 6 W, then maybe a Frolik or Buff or Halischuk or Galiardi moves in, and a guy like Klingberg or Cormier or Lipon gets called up, to cover a 4th line spot while a regular 4th liner is moved up in line up.
 

Bob E

Registered User
Aug 20, 2011
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Waivers don't really influence my opinion, since mine isn't necessarily on O`Dell the individual but the overall process... and not limited to the Jets. Also ignoring the fact that whether a player gets picked up on waivers has far more variables than if the the player is "good" or "bad".

I believe that teams -while efficient probably 80-90% elsewhere at prolevel evaluations- are inefficient in goaltending and fourth line markets due to biases.

Overall, it won't really hurt the Jets since it's a bias that I believe to be rampant throughout most of the NHL, although diminishing.

I think it's safe to say other teams valued their prospects or 'role' players more than O'Dell. And it doesn't mean O'Dell is a 'bad' or 'good' player, just other teams don't value him more than guys they already have, IMO.
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
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Can I hold you to that & what do you consider a "falter"??

Seems to me he has faltered for 2-3 years running yet he remains so other than a complete fan revolt (something in the nature that eventually got Noel canned), I'm not so sure about that

Sure, "hold me to" anything you want... I'll let Maurice and Chevy know that I'm under pressure for them to deliver the goods. :laugh:
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
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I think it's safe to say other teams valued their prospects or 'role' players more than O'Dell. And it doesn't mean O'Dell is a 'bad' or 'good' player, just other teams don't value him more than guys they already have, IMO.

Is anyone surprised that no other team waived one of their helmet punchers to pick up a valuable bottom six forward?
 

untouchable21

I am not the guy you want to be wrong about.
Aug 12, 2007
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[mod]

As much as I like O'Dell, he was never going to take Thorburn or Peluso's role on the team and that's neither here nor there. He'll get his chance at some point during the season. He's a professional and I'm sure he is mature enough to deal with the aspect of being sent down. He got a taste of the NHL last season and he'll push to get back or he can sulk [mod] and never be heard from again which I doubt.
 
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veganhunter

Mexico City Coyotes!
Feb 15, 2010
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Is anyone surprised that no other team waived one of their helmet punchers to pick up a valuable bottom six forward?

According to a few articles that have come out over the past couple of days 1/2 to over 1/2 of the teams (depending on who you consider an enforcer) have already done away with their helmet punchers. Presumably they have already filled their openings that were left by this, I would guess that the other teams are clinging to the past rightly or wrongly.

That also doesn't take into account the fact that one of the Jets biggest weaknesses is their bottom of the roster players so whoever the Jets get rid are unlikely to be picked up by most other teams.
 

KingBogo

Admitted Homer
Nov 29, 2011
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Well no one can deny Jets fans passion. When you count the Budaj & Holland for Tangradi trade tread and the waiving O'Dell thread we are pushing a combined 1500 posts. That's for 4 current AHLers. Whats going to happen if we ever make a player move of significance? Its going to be Armageddon around here :laugh:
 

allan5oh

Has prospect fever
Oct 15, 2011
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Well no one can deny Jets fans passion. When you count the Budaj & Holland for Tangradi trade tread and the waiving O'Dell thread we are pushing a combined 1500 posts. That's for 4 current AHLers. Whats going to happen if we ever make a player move of significance? Its going to be Armageddon around here :laugh:

I think it's more built up angst. Personally I think both moves are good moves.
 

Tom ServoMST3K

In search of a Steinbach Hero
Nov 2, 2010
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What's your excuse?
Well no one can deny Jets fans passion. When you count the Budaj & Holland for Tangradi trade tread and the waiving O'Dell thread we are pushing a combined 1500 posts. That's for 4 current AHLers. Whats going to happen if we ever make a player move of significance? Its going to be Armageddon around here :laugh:

Maybe thats why chevy hasnt done any.

:laugh:
 

jetkarma*

Guest
I think it's more built up angst. Personally I think both moves are good moves.

Agreed. Those with angst are perhaps not as patient and accepting of the plan and direction as those with no or less angst . The passion , frustration and desire to win are powerful and impact the way moves are viewed , winning and unquestioned progress should temper that .
 

Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
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Agreed. Those with angst are perhaps not as patient and accepting of the plan and direction as those with no or less angst . The passion , frustration and desire to win are powerful and impact the way moves are viewed , winning and unquestioned progress should temper that .

Patience is not the issue. I have no problem with patience if there is an actual plan for building a winning team. Merely skimming along not building a winning NHL roster, not adding prospects for a rebuild, not taking any direction is the problem. Then there's moves like this which simply show how incredibly poorly the team evaluates talent.
 

jetkarma*

Guest
Patience is not the issue. I have no problem with patience if there is an actual plan for building a winning team. Merely skimming along not building a winning NHL roster, not adding prospects for a rebuild, not taking any direction is the problem. Then there's moves like this which simply show how incredibly poorly the team evaluates talent.

There is a plan it just isn't one you like or acknowledge , we've mentioned this before.

You won't change your opinion until the Jets emphatically make it a given , and then I imagine you'll say they should have done it earlier or differently. I am confident and have been in the vision and direction we are going.
 

Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
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There is a plan it just isn't one you like or acknowledge , we've mentioned this before.

You won't change your opinion until the Jets emphatically make it a given , and then I imagine you'll say they should have done it earlier or differently. I am confident and have been in the vision and direction we are going.

You keep saying this yet you cannot say what the plan is besides "draft and develop" which means nothing since every single team in NHL does this. Ie no plan.

Will I say they should have taken a direction to build the organization earlier? Obviously. Will I immediately say it's wrong? No of course not. But no team builds a team by staying in the black hole (8-12th in conference). Doesn't happen and it doesn't happen for a reason. Doesn't take 4 years to build a middle of the road (at best) prospect pool. LA went from 5th overall pick to Stanley Cup in less than 3 calendar years.

If you want to imagine something that isn't there go ahead. I'll keep being a realist.
 
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Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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You keep saying this yet you cannot say what the plan is besides "draft and develop" which means nothing since every single team in NHL does this. Ie no plan.

Will I say they should have taken a direction to build the organization earlier? Obviously. Will I immediately say it's wrong? No of course not. But no team builds a team by staying in the black hole (8-12th in conference). Doesn't happen and it doesn't happen for a reason. Doesn't take 4 years to build a middle of the road (at best) prospect pool. LA went from 5th overall pick to Stanley Cup in less than 3 calendar years.

If you want to imagine something that isn't there go ahead. I'll keep being a realist.

I think that the Jets draft haul over the past 4 years stacks up pretty well against anyone else in the league, considering quality and quantity. They haven't given up one significant asset to do this, which is how many teams build up draft assets. Maybe it was luck, or maybe it helped that they had some extra picks in a good year (2013).

The LA Kings built a top end roster while getting only one top-3 pick in the draft (Doughty), and one could argue that Trouba will fit that bill for the Jets. Kopitar was the other home run and he was picked in the 8-12 slot. Otherwise, it was picks lower in the first round and beyond built up over several years and then some useful trades that made them a winner. If you look at the key draft picks accumulated by the Kings, they stretch over 7 entry drafts, from Dustin Brown in 2003 to Schenn in 2009.

Maybe the Jets don't evaluate 4th liners and AHLers the same as you, but I'm not sure whether that's a very good barometer. I can't see how decisions on guys like Machacek, Kulda and O'Dell have any bearing on the long-term success of the organization. Success will be built on guys like Scheifele, Trouba, Ehlers, Petan, Morrissey and Lowry. So far, they seem to have figured out how to evaluate talent in those cases so far. I'll take that over sage waiver wire decisions any day.
 

Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
22,871
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Winnipeg
I think that the Jets draft haul over the past 4 years stacks up pretty well against anyone else in the league, considering quality and quantity.

Everyone thinks that they draft well before results can be proven. And the Jets have not given themselves ANY leeway, they absolutely need to hit every pick out of the park.

They haven't given up one significant asset to do this, which is how many teams build up draft assets. Maybe it was luck, or maybe it helped that they had some extra picks in a good year (2013).

So what? Our significant assets are already starting on the decline by the time this team would "competing" by the timeline that these young players will start to make an impact.

The LA Kings built a top end roster while getting only one top-3 pick in the draft (Doughty), and one could argue that Trouba will fit that bill for the Jets. Kopitar was the other home run and he was picked in the 8-12 slot. Otherwise, it was picks lower in the first round and beyond built up over several years and then some useful trades that made them a winner. If you look at the key draft picks accumulated by the Kings, they stretch over 7 entry drafts, from Dustin Brown in 2003 to Schenn in 2009.

Kings added a whole bunch of picks to give themselves plenty of leeway. They had some picks blow up in their faces (Hickey, Ryan, Moller, etc) but thanks to adding assets and employing a real rebuild they could afford those misses. Jets cannot do to complete lack of depth in picks.

Maybe the Jets don't evaluate 4th liners and AHLers the same as you, but I'm not sure whether that's a very good barometer. I can't see how decisions on guys like Machacek, Kulda and O'Dell have any bearing on the long-term success of the organization.

Nothing to do with my point. We'll see though smart teams like LA ditched their moron goons like Westgarth/Ivanans years ago.

Success will be built on guys like Scheifele, Trouba, Ehlers, Petan, Morrissey and Lowry. So far, they seem to have figured out how to evaluate talent in those cases so far. I'll take that over sage waiver wire decisions any day.

We'll see. Their talent evaluation seems to be highly questionable at best in Pavelec, Peluso, Setoguchi, Thorburn, etc, etc. The Jets complete lack of understanding in building a consistent core of a team. Their refusal to add assets to either the NHL team or prospect pool is killing them.
 

jetkarma*

Guest
You keep saying this yet you cannot say what the plan is besides "draft and develop" which means nothing since every single team in NHL does this. Ie no plan.

Will I say they should have taken a direction to build the organization earlier? Obviously. Will I immediately say it's wrong? No of course not. But no team builds a team by staying in the black hole (8-12th in conference). Doesn't happen and it doesn't happen for a reason. Doesn't take 4 years to build a middle of the road (at best) prospect pool. LA went from 5th overall pick to Stanley Cup in less than 3 calendar years.

If you want to imagine something that isn't there go ahead. I'll keep being a realist.

First because you state something doesn't mean it is an actuality , regardless of you wanting that to be accurate. You don't want to differentiate between what you profess needs to be done and anything else . You're quite clear you believe you know more and how to better build this team than Jets management and don't agree with the path we are on , that is all fine , however none of that makes it more than just your opinion.

IMO you are not a realist , you are a critic of the direction that has been taken and are reluctant to change prior negative positions and proclamations , you have made statements in the past that were not accurate to prop your stance. LA had how many years prior to the year the finished 5th last that contributed to the championship?

Do you think that drafting and developing are not and can not be central , the core piece of building a winning team? Do you think something else should be? We added a very good , young player at a position of need this year at a very good contract cost didn't we? Did we lose a player of that level ? Those aren't parts of a "plan" then?

Drafting smart , high character , extremely high hockey IQ players isn't part of a plan ? Look at last night's roster , name everyone that was not a Thrasher / Jet prospect/player when the relocation happened. Now look at the second Jets era , is there a difference? What about looking ahead to next year ? Do we logically see an influx of options for many roster spots ? This is not a result of any plan according to you though , is it luck?

The black hole is thrown around and really has no reason to be . Would I like the Jets to have the top pick or one of the top 3 ? Of course if we also didn't play poorly enough to finish that low. Scheifele , Trouba , Morrissey , Ehlers all look to be significant pieces and imo at least half of those picks will be major , impacting players. Like Button said this week , the Jets are getting really good players regardless of where they are selecting. That isn't a result of planning or a plan as you say? You can say and believe in what you wish of course , just as I can , and I believe that not only do we indeed have a plan , but that said plan is actually working and leading us down a path where we soon will be a playoff team with a very very good young core and a prospect core that is tonnes better than what we inherited .

The plan is exactly what we are seeing , again you and others have made it clear you both don't like it and think it is wrong and also that it won't lead to success. I disagree on all counts , we'll see who is/was right and I think sooner than later.

This franchise was a wasteland and terribly run , we needed to get our heads above water unfortunately and that has taken time , we are building for sustained success and it is taking time , I am not saying it isn't , but it is being done with a plan .

Looking forward to seeing how our future players perform this year , I quite suspect we'll have some tremendous seasons from more than one or two of them . Having a situation like that doesn't happen without a plan , unless someone wants to contribute that to being lucky perhaps?

You not liking the plan doesn't mean there isn't one , there is . If that plan works I wonder what the naysayers will say towards that? I think we will see what that is .
 

Evil Little

Registered User
Jan 22, 2014
6,311
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You keep saying this yet you cannot say what the plan is besides "draft and develop" which means nothing since every single team in NHL does this. Ie no plan.

Will I say they should have taken a direction to build the organization earlier? Obviously. Will I immediately say it's wrong? No of course not. But no team builds a team by staying in the black hole (8-12th in conference). Doesn't happen and it doesn't happen for a reason. Doesn't take 4 years to build a middle of the road (at best) prospect pool. LA went from 5th overall pick to Stanley Cup in less than 3 calendar years.

If you want to imagine something that isn't there go ahead. I'll keep being a realist.

For what it's worth, when the organization uses the term 'draft and develop' I read that as, 'don't expect tons of flashy free agency signings...' as opposed to any claim that they're doing more or better drafting or developing.
 

jetkarma*

Guest
For what it's worth, when the organization uses the term 'draft and develop' I read that as, 'don't expect tons of flashy free agency signings...' as opposed to any claim that they're doing more or better drafting or developing.

It also means they won't or will be judicious in trading drafted players , like declining to add Comrie or Helle in a package for Leddy , at least until we've got our heads substantially above water. That's also part of the plan ;)
 

GoldenJet89

Registered User
Feb 4, 2012
624
0
Back to O'Dell

The issue I have with O'Dell being sent down is simple, i'll leave waivers out of it.

If someone in our top 9 gets hurt, you need a skill guy to plug in. Here we are now - Kane is probably going to miss some games. As it stands Halischuk likely moves onto the third line. The other options are Thorburn, Peluso, Galiardi...

Playoff teams don't have Halischuk playing on the 3rd line, or any of the other options. Where as O'Dell still gives us a reasonable chance to maintain a decent 3rd line IMO. All we have to fill holes right now are guys that should never be anywhere but a 4th line.
 

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