I speak using logic.
Matthews has 19 less goals than Pettersson had points this season.
Elias Pettersson vs. Auston Matthews
- Thread starter Koivu11
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Matthews has 19 less goals than Pettersson had points this season.
Ace of Hades
#Demko4Vezina
It is not really hypocritical when you look at the players involved and how the comparisons should be displayed in particular.
Matthews has been better in the regular season while Petterson has been better in the post-season, hence they are on the same tier.
Infact Petterson right now is actually a better player than he was in February.
Ace of Hades
#Demko4Vezina
Nope.
and Petterson pretty much is near or surpassed Matthews-post season totals combined in one year while playing far less games, and is better defensively.
SurferBroChad
Registered User
pettersson plays with his heart on his sleeve. guy is a legit gamer and mathews is a soft coward who will score 40 goals and disappear in the playoffs.
typical that leafs fans cant accept reality
typical that leafs fans cant accept reality
CloutierForVezina
Registered User
Sticking with Petey here. He's got another year left on his ELC, I'm hopeful he'll sign a more team-friendly contract, and he has shown he can be a beast in the playoffs.
Matthews is a fantastic young center so you can't go too far wrong with either player.
Matthews is a fantastic young center so you can't go too far wrong with either player.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
Look the point is this. Don't use the playoffs as a reason why Pettersson is better then Matthews because with that logic he's matched McDavid's career playoff points. So don't make some excuse that McDavid is better in the regular season since Matthews is also better then Pettersson in the regular season.
Ace of Hades
#Demko4Vezina
McDavid only had one year of post-season play, while Matthews has had three years. You dont seem to understand this. You are fixated way too much on regular season totals.
The Petterson playing right now would easily pot 80+ points for sure, and is better now than he was in the regular season.
If you find Matthews to be the better player, by all means go for it. I will stick to the young franchise C top player who plays for my team and is second in the league in point scoring as a sophomore during his first ever play off run.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
I have made myself very clear and either you are choosing to ignore my valid points or maybe you just don't understand them.
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
Matthews was ppg+ in the series this year. What the hell are you people talking about? Straight garbage
NeverForget06
Here we go again !
Don't worry this thread is on it's way to devolving into arguments about playoff points and two-way play versus point production. We'll find our way in here soon enough !
Ace of Hades
#Demko4Vezina
and Im telling you it is dumb to use McDavid as a measuring stick given the context of his post-season play and he fact that he is miles ahead of Matthews as a player so comparison itself is invalid. Stop being fixated on what happened in the regular season, especially when it was cut short due to a pandemic so we have no idea how many points Petterson wouldve gotten in a 82 game schedule.
By your shitty logic, Roussell is better than Lafreniere because he amassed more regular season point totals.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
He was also close to a PPG in 2017 getting 5 points in 6 games and 2019 getting 6 points in 7 games. When you factor in this year Matthews is far from any reason why Toronto has been eliminated.
SurferBroChad
Registered User
leafs fans so triggered by the truth, its all good. you got a tall kessel who takes face offs scored 4 goals vs ottawa! remember that!
Pettersson for me, but it's close.
IMO Pettersson has more potential and actually drives play, if he grows into his frame he's going to be an absolute force.
Matthews is a great player, but he doesn't have that game-breaking ability. His shot is absolutely lethal and if he start using his frame and actually brings some heart he'll most likely be better. But until I see that, i'm taking Petey.
IMO Pettersson has more potential and actually drives play, if he grows into his frame he's going to be an absolute force.
Matthews is a great player, but he doesn't have that game-breaking ability. His shot is absolutely lethal and if he start using his frame and actually brings some heart he'll most likely be better. But until I see that, i'm taking Petey.
Pettersson for me, but that's mostly because we still don't know his contract. How will it compare to Matthews' 11.6M deal?
DS7
Registered User
Pettersson very easily for me. He has winning in his genes.
Other franchise centers are already physically matured and are what they are. EP on the other hand is 180 pounds and has so much growth still left it's scary because hes already a top 5 player in the world. Unlimited ceiling on this once in a lifetime talent.
Other franchise centers are already physically matured and are what they are. EP on the other hand is 180 pounds and has so much growth still left it's scary because hes already a top 5 player in the world. Unlimited ceiling on this once in a lifetime talent.
Mitch nylander
One of the biggest fans from a bipolar fanbase
- Jun 2, 2016
- 4,563
- 5,999
I honestly don't know how you can say this. You're really out to lunch.
Matthews disappears in the playoffs: Matthews led both CBJ and Toronto in the play in round in points and goals. Matthews had 4 goals and 6 points in 5 games. Leading the leafs in both goals and points. He scored both game winning goals for the leafs. Additionally, he led the leafs in +/-, takeaways, hits, and was 4th in blocked shots. He only had 1 give-away, and he averaged 25 mins. He also had no pim meaning he remained discipline throughout the playoffs. To say he disappeared in the playoffs, is simply not true. He was one of the only players on the leafs, who showed a pulse.
Matthews is a soft coward: Again, maybe watch the player play before making these arguments. Matthews led the leafs in hits, more then players like Kyle Clifford, and any defensemen. He will play in the corners, and isn't afraid of contact. Funnily, Matthews had 10 hits in 5 games, meanwhile Elias Pettersson has only 10 hits in 14 games...
40 goals: This is an understatement considering he scored 47 goals and was on pace for 55.
Typical Leafs Fans Can't accept reality?: What reality, you act like there is no comparison between the players, which is a delusional perspective.
--------
Also, where does this mindset come from that Pettersson is a defensive stalwart, and Matthews is horrendous defensively. I really don't understand the thought process here. Neither are amazing defensively both are good defensively. Matthews is much better on the face-off dot, has more takeaways and block shots. He also had the better +/-.
Many people in this thread have Shiny Toy Syndrome.
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Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 55,860
- 47,082
Canucks fans: Pettersson's better!
Leafs fans: Matthews is better!
Canucks fans: No he's not! Look at the playoff performance!
Leafs fans: Yes he is! Look at the regular season totals!
Sabres fans: Finally someone else in these polls other than Eichel.
Leafs fans: Matthews is better!
Canucks fans: No he's not! Look at the playoff performance!
Leafs fans: Yes he is! Look at the regular season totals!
Sabres fans: Finally someone else in these polls other than Eichel.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
It's very simple and I think it's this. Canucks fans logic is Pettersson is great and Matthews is horrible.
Noone cares about regular season success, see Johnny Hockey.
Lets create a trade Johnny to Leafs, and see how many Leaf-fans will point out his lack of success in playoffs should lesser his value, but regarding to Matthews lack off success in playoffs, should not hold against him.... Intressting.....
Btw Elias has a history of being a better playoff-perfomer then a regular season player, just saying.
Lets create a trade Johnny to Leafs, and see how many Leaf-fans will point out his lack of success in playoffs should lesser his value, but regarding to Matthews lack off success in playoffs, should not hold against him.... Intressting.....
Btw Elias has a history of being a better playoff-perfomer then a regular season player, just saying.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
Do you have proof that those threads were actually posted or are you making that up?
LeafsNation75
Registered User
It's not like there hasn't been any Eichel vs Pettersson polls in the past.
Pettersson vs Eichel
EP vs Eichel
Post this on the other thread on the main boards, so I'll leave it here.
Out of curiosity, where does one find this "WAR" statistic? And since when did they start calculating WAR in hockey? I thought that was strictly a baseball stat. I personally use point shares that are listed on hockey reference and according to that EP's point share this year was 7.7 points. 5.7 on offense and 2.0 on defense. Last year his point share was 7.8 (offense 6.0 and defense 1.8) thought he did play 3 more games.
Auston Matthews on the other hand according to the site has had point share of 10.8 this season in 70 games (8.9 on offense and 2.0 on defense). Last year he had PS of 8.3 (7.6/0.7) in 68 games (he was absolute trash defensively and it shows in this stat), year before he had PS of 9.1 (7/2.1) in 62 games and rookie year he had a PS of 9.7 (8.2/1.5) in 82 games.
Guys like Bergeron who is the top forward defensively perennially has gotten 2.5, 2.7, 2.8, 1.7 (reputation award?) in his selke seasons. ROR last year had 3.1, Kopitar had 3.0 and 3.3 in his 2 selke seasons. Datsyuk had a rediculous 3.7 in 07-08 which was his most memorable season overall.
So yea, looking at my most likely simplified statistic, it would appear that Auston and Elias both had equal impact on the defensive end or Elias might have been 0.1 DPS more if adjusted for the 2 game difference? But I don't think that difference in defense offsets the whopping 3.2 offensive point share gap?
Top offensive point shares this season in order were:
Draisaitl 10.9
Pasta 10.8
McDavid 9.3
MacKinnon 8.9
Matthews 8.9
Panarin 8.8
Kucherov 8.3
Zibby 8.2
Ovi 8.0
Top defensive point shares this season for forwards:
Marchand 2.6
Panarin 2.6
Pasta 2.4
Bergeron 2.3
Teravainen 2.3
Cirelli 2.2
Kopitar 2.2
Point 2.2
Coutourier 2.2
Kucherov 2.1
Danault 2.1
To me both of those lists actually meet the eye tests as well.
TLDR
Matthews and Pettersson were on par defensively this year, however Matthews blew him out of the water offensively.
Playoffs wise, Pettersson has been stellar and gotten more than 50% of his points on the PP (which is not a knock but he really cleans out). Matthews isn't a no-show in the playoffs. He's faced arguably much much tougher defensive competition in Washinton, Boston x 2 and Columbus. Vs. Petey facing Wild (w/ backup G, Stl with 2 goalies who couldn't stop a beachball and Vegas who have Lehner who IMO is a fantastic goalie and a good defensive challenge. I suspect, if the Leafs were going head to head with these 3 teams vs the 4 they've faced in the last 4 seasons, they would fare quite well.
For me, Pettersson is a fantastic player and is a shoe-in to be a top 10 center in the NHL for the next 10 years. However, Matthews is still a tier above and arguably going to go head to head vs anyone else to secure that #2/3 /4C spot behind McDavid and MacK/ Drai (if he keeps up).
As much as people are hyping Pettersson for his ceiling and rapid improvement in play. His offensive production hasn't changed a ton while his defense still remains pretty damn good and slightly better this year compared to last. Matthews on the other hand had a massive dip defensively last year but other than the one season, he's been consistently good defensively and is improving in that area as well. He unlike Petey however is absolutely taking off offensively every season. The only thing that derails him are injuries. If he can stay healthy, I have very minimal doubt that Auston hits somewhere between 55-60 goals and 100-110+ points over 82 games next season (if we even get that many games). Meanwhile, I doubt Pettersson sniffs 40 goals or 90-100 points next year or even the year after. In a career year, I can see him getting to 90-95+ points however, but I don't think we see more than 1 or 2 seasons at that level. Matthews should post multiple 90-95+ point seasons for a good stretch assuming he stays healthy.
Out of curiosity, where does one find this "WAR" statistic? And since when did they start calculating WAR in hockey? I thought that was strictly a baseball stat. I personally use point shares that are listed on hockey reference and according to that EP's point share this year was 7.7 points. 5.7 on offense and 2.0 on defense. Last year his point share was 7.8 (offense 6.0 and defense 1.8) thought he did play 3 more games.
Auston Matthews on the other hand according to the site has had point share of 10.8 this season in 70 games (8.9 on offense and 2.0 on defense). Last year he had PS of 8.3 (7.6/0.7) in 68 games (he was absolute trash defensively and it shows in this stat), year before he had PS of 9.1 (7/2.1) in 62 games and rookie year he had a PS of 9.7 (8.2/1.5) in 82 games.
Guys like Bergeron who is the top forward defensively perennially has gotten 2.5, 2.7, 2.8, 1.7 (reputation award?) in his selke seasons. ROR last year had 3.1, Kopitar had 3.0 and 3.3 in his 2 selke seasons. Datsyuk had a rediculous 3.7 in 07-08 which was his most memorable season overall.
So yea, looking at my most likely simplified statistic, it would appear that Auston and Elias both had equal impact on the defensive end or Elias might have been 0.1 DPS more if adjusted for the 2 game difference? But I don't think that difference in defense offsets the whopping 3.2 offensive point share gap?
Top offensive point shares this season in order were:
Draisaitl 10.9
Pasta 10.8
McDavid 9.3
MacKinnon 8.9
Matthews 8.9
Panarin 8.8
Kucherov 8.3
Zibby 8.2
Ovi 8.0
Top defensive point shares this season for forwards:
Marchand 2.6
Panarin 2.6
Pasta 2.4
Bergeron 2.3
Teravainen 2.3
Cirelli 2.2
Kopitar 2.2
Point 2.2
Coutourier 2.2
Kucherov 2.1
Danault 2.1
To me both of those lists actually meet the eye tests as well.
TLDR
Matthews and Pettersson were on par defensively this year, however Matthews blew him out of the water offensively.
Playoffs wise, Pettersson has been stellar and gotten more than 50% of his points on the PP (which is not a knock but he really cleans out). Matthews isn't a no-show in the playoffs. He's faced arguably much much tougher defensive competition in Washinton, Boston x 2 and Columbus. Vs. Petey facing Wild (w/ backup G, Stl with 2 goalies who couldn't stop a beachball and Vegas who have Lehner who IMO is a fantastic goalie and a good defensive challenge. I suspect, if the Leafs were going head to head with these 3 teams vs the 4 they've faced in the last 4 seasons, they would fare quite well.
For me, Pettersson is a fantastic player and is a shoe-in to be a top 10 center in the NHL for the next 10 years. However, Matthews is still a tier above and arguably going to go head to head vs anyone else to secure that #2/3 /4C spot behind McDavid and MacK/ Drai (if he keeps up).
As much as people are hyping Pettersson for his ceiling and rapid improvement in play. His offensive production hasn't changed a ton while his defense still remains pretty damn good and slightly better this year compared to last. Matthews on the other hand had a massive dip defensively last year but other than the one season, he's been consistently good defensively and is improving in that area as well. He unlike Petey however is absolutely taking off offensively every season. The only thing that derails him are injuries. If he can stay healthy, I have very minimal doubt that Auston hits somewhere between 55-60 goals and 100-110+ points over 82 games next season (if we even get that many games). Meanwhile, I doubt Pettersson sniffs 40 goals or 90-100 points next year or even the year after. In a career year, I can see him getting to 90-95+ points however, but I don't think we see more than 1 or 2 seasons at that level. Matthews should post multiple 90-95+ point seasons for a good stretch assuming he stays healthy.
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lawrence
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- May 19, 2012
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Today Auston Matthews is at home in Arizona playing his ps4.
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